Speculation: New Numbers

[Lunatik]

I don't think players wanting their own numbers is any indication that they are bad apples and should not be on this team. That's a ridiculous insinuation.

So if the team has a rule in place, why should it matter? The player should simply pick a number in that range. If they aren't willing to, then what would you call it? That would be a player putting themselves before the team.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I said promotes, not creates. You need players that will buy into the organizational philosophy, even if that includes jersey numbers.

Eh, splitting hairs. Like I said, I doubt it will be an issue to the players, it seems really unnecessary to me though. I may be bias though, as I actually prefer higher numbers.

 

[DCDM]

So if the team has a rule in place, why should it matter? The player should simply pick a number in that range. If they aren't willing to, then what would you call it? That would be a player putting themselves before the team.

Players pick their numbers for a whole plethora of reasons. Some players pick their numbers to honor their family. Others players pick their numbers based on who they grew up idolizing, and have had those numbers since childhood. Is it selfish for them to want to retain those numbers because it's a reflection of where they came from or that it's something important to them?

 

[Lunatik]

Players pick their numbers for a whole plethora of reasons. Some players pick their numbers to honor their family. Others players pick their numbers based on who they grew up idolizing, and have had those numbers since childhood. Is it selfish for them to want to retain those numbers because it's a reflection of where they came from or that it's something important to them?

If there is a rule stating #A to #B only, then yes it is selfish, no question about it.

 

[DCDM]

If there is a rule stating #A to #B only, then yes it is selfish, no question about it.

Sounds like a rule that should be instituted when a franchise is in its early stages, not when a new guy comes in and "just feels like" implementing something.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think all players should have to wear even numbers. I'm tired of the egotistical jerks that wear odd numbers. It's one thing that concerns me with the Hiller signing.






Seriously, though, this is exactly why this irks me. Who is it who decides what a humble jersey number is as opposed to a flashy one? Think of Evander Kane (keeping his number 9 despite pressure from the Winnipeg public to avoid it out of respect for Bobby Hull) and Taylor Hall (bringing Lowe's number 4 out of retirement) as cases where low numbers are signs of individualism. When you arbitrarily decide which numbers are good and which numbers are bad, you force certain players to jump through a hoop (albeit a minor one) and other players to be not affected at all. I think this is foolish, to say the least.

I don't think fostering team unity is best achieved by forcing something annoying on a section of the team. If it was the whole team, that's another matter.

 

[Lunatik]

I think all players should have to wear even numbers. I'm tired of the egotistical jerks that wear odd numbers. It's one thing that concerns me with the Hiller signing.






Seriously, though, this is exactly why this irks me. Who is it who decides what a humble jersey number is as opposed to a flashy one? Think of Evander Kane (keeping his number 9 despite pressure from the Winnipeg public to avoid it out of respect for Bobby Hull) and Taylor Hall (bringing Lowe's number 4 out of retirement) as cases where low numbers are signs of individualism. When you arbitrarily decide which numbers are good and which numbers are bad, you force certain players to jump through a hoop (albeit a minor one) and other players to be not affected at all. I think this is foolish, to say the least.

I don't think fostering team unity is best achieved by forcing something annoying on a section of the team. If it was the whole team, that's another matter.

Well that really speaks volumes about Hall doesn't it?

to me personally I have found #s 1-40, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88 and 99 to be less "flashy", not that anyone can have 99 anymore and we all know how Penguin fans fill their diapers when someone uses 66

 

[Lunatik]

Sounds like a rule that should be instituted when a franchise is in its early stages, not when a new guy comes in and "just feels like" implementing something.

actually seems like a rule any GM could implement upon hiring. But with Treliving being hired since these comments who knows if that will still happen.

Interesting enough Bennett does not have 93 as his training camp number, he is wearing 63

 

[Nordberg]

Well that really speaks volumes about Hall doesn't it?

to me personally I have found #s 1-40, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88 and 99 to be less "flashy", not that anyone can have 99 anymore and we all know how Penguin fans fill their diapers when someone uses 66

As I recall, it was more like Lowe was almost encouraging him to take #4, like a PR move where Lowe could look good whilst making Hall out to be the hockey Jesus of the 21st century. That's the type of individualistic tendencies we should be avoiding, but honestly it has nothing to do with the actual number.

In the second part of your post, note how the factors that decide which numbers are "flashy" are completely arbitrary and probably different for everyone. This "rule" or idea for a rule is dumb as hell and completely unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. I want team players that play a team game and help their teammates out in every situation, I don't care how they look whilst doing it.

I'm also not impressed by the non-argument that "the successful teams did it". So the Devils did it, I don't think we should ever be caught emulating the Devils, in any way. I can think of a lot of great teams that let their players wear whatever number they wanted, that doesn't mean anything either.

 

[Anglesmith]

As I recall, it was more like Lowe was almost encouraging him to take #4, like a PR move where Lowe could look good whilst making Hall out to be the hockey Jesus of the 21st century. That's the type of individualistic tendencies we should be avoiding, but honestly it has nothing to do with the actual number.

In the second part of your post, note how the factors that decide which numbers are "flashy" are completely arbitrary and probably different for everyone. This "rule" or idea for a rule is dumb as hell and completely unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. I want team players that play a team game and help their teammates out in every situation, I don't care how they look whilst doing it.

I'm also not impressed by the non-argument that "the successful teams did it". So the Devils did it, I don't think we should ever be caught emulating the Devils, in any way. I can think of a lot of great teams that let their players wear whatever number they wanted, that doesn't mean anything either.

You used "whilst" twice in a single post. I think you win.

 

[Dack]

I think players should be able to choose whatever number they want

P.S Does it worry anyone else that Trievling cant seem to form a coherent sentence while talking to the press and Burkes Favorite words are Big and Truculent I feel like this is how we end up using High picks on guys like BigRig Smith who despite having an awesome nickname doesn't really seem like he will ever develop into anything but a checking line player ( Ohl Stats off memory so don't fault me for them not being perfect 109GP 42 Points) when we still have a need for D men

 

[1989]

I think players should be able to choose whatever number they want

P.S Does it worry anyone else that Trievling cant seem to form a coherent sentence while talking to the press and Burkes Favorite words are Big and Truculent I feel like this is how we end up using High picks on guys like BigRig Smith who despite having an awesome nickname doesn't really seem like he will ever develop into anything but a checking line player ( Ohl Stats off memory so don't fault me for them not being perfect 89GP 42 Points) when we still have a need for D men

The numbers thing I don't care about. They are just numbers. If it's not a big deal to the players, it shouldn't be a big deal to the fans.

Regardless of their position on the ice, third-round picks and beyond have something like a 5% chance or less of making the NHL unless they are goaltending prospects as they are given a longer timeframe to develop, and their odds are astronomically lower than first or second round picks of ever seeing NHL ice. Furthermore, this year's draft was a crap-shoot beyond the 20th pick overall.
In other words, I have a feeling that beyond McDonald and Bennett, the Flames (and probably almost every other NHL team's) draft list were comprised of dart-throws in the third round and beyond. Lots of sexy names and HFBoards favourites either dropped into much later rounds or weren't picked at all.

If it was such a crap-shoot, had I been in an NHL GM position I would have been hesitant to pick a defenseman as well, with their more unpredictable development curve in this draft.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

I think it's dumb... Right up there with making them cut their hair/shave etc. But hey they make millions of dollars so if they have to change their numbers then so be it.

 

[Taranis]

To be fair cutting their hair and shaving is a discipline thing, where as taking a random number means nothing.

 

[Dack]

The numbers thing I don't care about. They are just numbers. If it's not a big deal to the players, it shouldn't be a big deal to the fans.

Regardless of their position on the ice, third-round picks and beyond have something like a 5% chance or less of making the NHL unless they are goaltending prospects as they are given a longer timeframe to develop, and their odds are astronomically lower than first or second round picks of ever seeing NHL ice. Furthermore, this year's draft was a crap-shoot beyond the 20th pick overall.
In other words, I have a feeling that beyond McDonald and Bennett, the Flames (and probably almost every other NHL team's) draft list were comprised of dart-throws in the third round and beyond. Lots of sexy names and HFBoards favourites either dropped into much later rounds or weren't picked at all.

If it was such a crap-shoot, had I been in an NHL GM position I would have been hesitant to pick a defenseman as well, with their more unpredictable development curve in this draft.

I know the draft suck I understood this by September but I mean whats the point of getting a player we know wont help when we could get a player that could help

 

[Anglesmith]

I know the draft suck I understood this by September but I mean whats the point of getting a player we know wont help when we could get a player that could help

Since when did we get a player we know won't help? If Burke values size and truculence, it's because he thinks those are the qualities that do help most of all. Really, no GM picks players to make a point. They always pick the players they feel help their organization the most.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Since when did we get a player we know won't help? If Burke values size and truculence, it's because he thinks those are the qualities that do help most of all. Really, no GM picks players to make a point. They always pick the players they feel help their organization the most.

I also think its important to note, that the scouts have tremendous influence over who we pick. The scouts would've had to have liked him, for us to pick him. This isn't Burke or Treliving making purely executive choices here I think.

 

[Anglesmith]

I also think its important to note, that the scouts have tremendous influence over who we pick. The scouts would've had to have liked him, for us to pick him. This isn't Burke or Treliving making purely executive choices here I think.

Oh absolutely. I guess I feel like management's role is to tell the scouts how to weight different categories (maybe).

 

[BVicious]

Everybody knows that no team actually pays scouts. Instead they surf HF to get educated information about a draft class, compile a list, clothes their eyes, and run a pencil up and down a list and where ever it stops is who they pick.

I can't believe people actually think NHL teams know what their doing, when most of the best accurate information is found here.

 

[CraigsList]

Would we be the only team that would implement the rule? If so, it'd be pretty neat, it would make us unique.

I don't like the idea, but I don't hate the idea (if that makes sense).

 

[Anglesmith]

Would we be the only team that would implement the rule? If so, it'd be pretty neat, it would make us unique.

I don't like the idea, but I don't hate the idea (if that makes sense).

It would appear that New Jersey does this.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

Players pick their numbers for a whole plethora of reasons. Some players pick their numbers to honor their family. Others players pick their numbers based on who they grew up idolizing, and have had those numbers since childhood. Is it selfish for them to want to retain those numbers because it's a reflection of where they came from or that it's something important to them?

Completely agree. If a player wears a jersey number for sentimental reasons is that really selfish? Definitely not. I do have a problem with a team who controls what numbers a player can wear. There has been so much animosity between the league and union with lock outs and disputes over money. Now they are controlling numbers. I think its just a power trip on the owners side. Let the players express themselves with jersey numbers. Some of the best team players in the game wear higher numbers ie. Crosby, Gretzky, Bourque, Hossa, Landeskog, Stamkos, Backes, Holmstrom, Karlsson, Foligno, Gilmour, O'Reilly, Pronger, Nylander and so many more. All team players. Its a control thing for management.

 

[Flamesarmstrong22]

Burke said the exact same thing when he was with the leafs but he didn't enforce too hard as he had the odd player like grabovski (84) and Kessel (81) as high #'s

 

[Lunatik]

As mentioned previously I think it promotes less individuality within the room.

But I was reading an old thread from 2013 that was just necro bumped saying that Dallas was doing this with their new management team. One of the posts mentioned a bunch of guys with their old numbers and then their new ones and it made me realize that the low numbers can also be symbolic that they a young player has now made it, a graduation of sorts.

Like when Backlund shed #60 and was given #11, or when Bouma went from #57 to #17, Matt Lombardi going from 49 to 18, Boyd from 41 to 16... etc.

I have been watching the game a long time and I am one of many who see high numbers and automatically think they are "training camp numbers" and I do look forward to seeing a young player "earning" his permanent number.

However I also have no problem if a player wants to "graduate" to a number higher than 35, I do believe that it should be a team assigned number until the player has earned a regular roster spot. I also believe they were too quick to (re)assign low numbers before last season. Knight & Monahan were never given training camp numbers and Horak/Bouma were re-assigned low numbers before camp.

But when it comes to new acquisitions and possible number changes I would like to see:

Sven Baertschi change from 47 to 27 when he makes the team full-time, again he was 27 throughout junior and it would serve as a symbol from Treliving and Burke that he has graduated to being an NHLer.

Johnny Gaudreau change from 53 to 13 when he makes the team full-time, as far as I can tell Johnny Hockey has always worn 13.

David Jones change from 54 to 25. He wore 23 through college and the AHL but was Milan Hejduk's number so Jones never changed away from his training camp number. 23 here is claimed as well, but I think it's time for a fresh number to symbolize a fresh start.

Joe Colborne from 8 to 22. Colborne wore #22 with both the Marlies and Providence Bruins as well as a bit for the Leafs, its obviously a number of choice for him.

Bill Arnold from 46 to 29 when he makes the team full-time. 24 is taken and the only difference is a line across the top of the 4 but for me it's symbolic, Joel Otto is the player I associate with 29 and the player I would love to see Arnold become.

Tyler Wotherspoon from 56 to 26, he wore it in Portland and with team Canada.

Paul Byron from 32 to 15. I really don't like #32 even though it's below 35, I feel like its just not a good number for a forward, I say give him 15 because it's available and is how old he looks .

Mason Raymond should get #21, it 's the number he has worn all of his NHL career except last season where he wore #12 and that ain't happening here.

Jonas Hiller should get #1, it's the number he had before and a great number for goalies.

Brandon Bollig should get #19. He wore 18 in the USHL and AHL and 81 in college. 19 is a great hockey number and the number of former tough guy Tim Hunter who is the best Flames player to wear it to date.

Deryk Engelland should get #55. He's worn #5 for his entire pro career, so 55 makes sense. However if the Flames are serious about 1-35 numbers, then 8 is the most defenseman like number left (assuming Colborne changes)​

 

[Rangediddy]

If letting Bennett wear #93 helps him think he'll play like Dougie Gilmour then I'm all for it.

But that being said, at the end of the day the players don't think of what number is on their back when they're actually playing. The only thing it does is either create an image of team unity or organizational control from the supreme ruler (Burkie).

We've all heard Josh Ho-Sang has issues with hockey culture... you could only imagine what he might think/do/say when Burke tells him he can't wear 66 (Lemieux stigma aside)