Speculation: New Morgan Rielly Discussion (no longer a fringe movement)

[ULF_55]

Hedman has a Norris, 2 Cups and a Conn Smythe. So if Rielly had delivered that he could score on his own net every night this season and I wouldn’t be upset.

We are living with Tavares. But the addition has pros and cons and very expensive hidden costs.

I'd take the downgrade from Rielly to Hedman.

 

[AvroArrow]

Where did I state any of what you said?

Where you chose to ignore all his defensive mistakes and praise only his scoring. Where you said not to blame him for the teams problems, when a lot of the defensive mistakes recently were directly on him. Where you said in Rielly's case, correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Stephen]

I'd take the downgrade from Rielly to Hedman.

No kidding eh?

"What's Ray Bourque done lately?"

 

[Hellcat]

A player waiving to leave isn’t ‘breaking a contract’. It’s following the terms of the contract.

Seems to be a fundamental thing you’re struggling with. If Rielly won’t waive he won’t be moved, bottom line.

I'm not the one struggling with anything, you're being intentionally oblivious to the realties contracts. Open your mind to the possibility that life is more nuanced than you are making it out to be.

A NTC from a players standpoint means, I negotiated a contract that will for the duration of the contract stop any trades. Tampa Bay chose to circumvent the NTC by threating to waive him, they essentially said if you choose to enforce the terms of the contract we are going to make the end result worse than if you chose to waive it. That in anyone's mind is circumventing the spirit of McDonough's contract.

Which is exactly what I outlined in my previous post, you make life so difficult on Rielly he chooses to waive his NMC. Not that I would do that, I believe a fairly negotiated contract should be honored, I think what TB did was exceptionally shady and will bite them in the ass in the future, as long as that GM is there. The only difference is Rielly has a NMC and McDonnaugh has a NTC. It does not prevent a team from creating conditions that force the player to waive his NMC or NTC. Give a GM who is a narcissist and wants to move a NMC player the challenge of moving that player who does not want to waive his NMC and I'll show you a player that is going to go through hell until he waives. Life is not as binary as I got a contract so I get what I want in my contract. That is naïve to think that.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not the one struggling with anything, you're being intentionally oblivious to the realties contracts. Open your mind to the possibility that life is more nuanced than you are making it out to be.

A NTC from a players standpoint means, I negotiated a contract that will for the duration of the contract stop any trades. Tampa Bay chose to circumvent the NTC by threating to waive him, they essentially said if you choose to enforce the terms of the contract we are going to make the end result worse than if you chose to waive it. That in anyone's mind is circumventing the spirit of McDonough's contract.

Which is exactly what I outlined in my previous post, you make life so difficult on Rielly he chooses to waive his NMC. Not that I would do that, I believe a fairly negotiated contract should be honored, I think what TB did was exceptionally shady and will bite them in the ass in the future, as long as that GM is there. The only difference is Rielly has a NMC and McDonnaugh has a NTC. It does not prevent a team from creating conditions that force the player to waive his NMC or NTC. Give a GM who is a narcissist and wants to move a NMC player the challenge of moving that player who does not want to waive his NMC and I'll show you a player that is going to go through hell until he waives. Life is not as binary as I got a contract so I get what I want in my contract. That is naïve to think that.

I'll leave you to it, you really have no clue how this works.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not the one struggling with anything, you're being intentionally oblivious to the realties contracts. Open your mind to the possibility that life is more nuanced than you are making it out to be.

A NTC from a players standpoint means, I negotiated a contract that will for the duration of the contract stop any trades. Tampa Bay chose to circumvent the NTC by threating to waive him, they essentially said if you choose to enforce the terms of the contract we are going to make the end result worse than if you chose to waive it. That in anyone's mind is circumventing the spirit of McDonough's contract.

Which is exactly what I outlined in my previous post, you make life so difficult on Rielly he chooses to waive his NMC. Not that I would do that, I believe a fairly negotiated contract should be honored, I think what TB did was exceptionally shady and will bite them in the ass in the future, as long as that GM is there. The only difference is Rielly has a NMC and McDonnaugh has a NTC. It does not prevent a team from creating conditions that force the player to waive his NMC or NTC. Give a GM who is a narcissist and wants to move a NMC player the challenge of moving that player who does not want to waive his NMC and I'll show you a player that is going to go through hell until he waives. Life is not as binary as I got a contract so I get what I want in my contract. That is naïve to think that.

I'm not advocating that we do anything with Rielly at this time at all. But I don't know if I subscribe to the idea that management should always operate like the honourable boy scout, especially when a championship pursuit is within arms reach and the guy with protection might be a speed bump.

Either never hand out these NTC's and NMC's or do the ruthless thing that places the organization above the player. It sounds tough from a human perspective, but Brisebois has the Stanley Cups. Ujiri broke his promises to DeRozan and his family and we had a parade. This rebuild was also made possible because the Leaf organization was willing to circumvent contracts, manipulate LTIR and get undesirables out to start fresh.

At the end of the day, I just want to know the organization will have the guts to do the hard thing if necessary, to deliver a title.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not advocating that we do anything with Rielly at this time at all. But I don't know if I subscribe to the idea that management should always operate like the honourable boy scout, especially when a championship pursuit is within arms reach and the guy with protection might be a speed bump.

Either never hand out these NTC's and NMC's or do the ruthless thing that places the organization above the player. It sounds tough from a human perspective, but Brisebois has the Stanley Cups. Ujiri broke his promises to DeRozan and his family and we had a parade. This rebuild was also made possible because the Leaf organization was willing to circumvent contracts, manipulate LTIR and get undesirables out to start fresh.

At the end of the day, I just want to know the organization will have the guts to do the hard thing if necessary, to deliver a title.

But if they go full ruthless, is Rielly the best target?

 

[Stephen]

But if they go full ruthless, is Rielly the best target?

Not really, he just has to play better.

 

[mclaren55]

Where you chose to ignore all his defensive mistakes and praise only his scoring. Where you said not to blame him for the teams problems, when a lot of the defensive mistakes recently were directly on him. Where you said in Rielly's case, correlation does not equal causation.

Do you completely ignore the fact that I stated he was coming back from injury? Maybe give a guy time to get back up to game speed before judging him?

Everyone knows what Morgan is and isn’t. To act like it’s some revelation that he isn’t a true 1D is laughable. He is an offensive transition based D, that this team is better with than without. That’s it.

 

[AvroArrow]

Do you completely ignore the fact that I stated he was coming back from injury? Maybe give a guy time to get back up to game speed before judging him?

Everyone knows what Morgan is and isn’t. To act like it’s some revelation that he isn’t a true 1D is laughable. He is an offensive transition based D, that this team is better with than without. That’s it.

We don't need him to be a shutdown D like a prime Hedman or anything. Just not a liability, he was making low IQ pinches before injury, it isn't something injury related just poor decision making and low hockey IQ.

He played a much more responsible game against the Wings last night, but he needs to do that consistently. Low quality pinches just kill a team. Especially when you're up. Not asking him to have Lidstrom like stick work or anything, but just know where to be positioning wise and have some restraint in the O-zone. Pinching without support when it's a low percentage chance to win the puck battle isn't smart, he does that quite a bit.

 

[Hellcat]

I'm not advocating that we do anything with Rielly at this time at all. But I don't know if I subscribe to the idea that management should always operate like the honourable boy scout, especially when a championship pursuit is within arms reach and the guy with protection might be a speed bump.

Either never hand out these NTC's and NMC's or do the ruthless thing that places the organization above the player. It sounds tough from a human perspective, but Brisebois has the Stanley Cups. Ujiri broke his promises to DeRozan and his family and we had a parade. This rebuild was also made possible because the Leaf organization was willing to circumvent contracts, manipulate LTIR and get undesirables out to start fresh.

At the end of the day, I just want to know the organization will have the guts to do the hard thing if necessary, to deliver a title.

I've always subscribed to the axiom, your word is all you got. I feel if you are going to hand out NTC/NMC, you think that is something that is going to help you win that championship. Your word, should not be something you use to manipulate a player into signing a contract you have no plans in honoring. I'm in the first camp you illustrated, don't give them out.

 

[Hellcat]

I'll leave you to it, you really have no clue how this works.

You keep saying that but I gave you a list of 25 players, which was quite easy to find, who waived their NTC to be traded. Even with that evidence to consider, please tell the class how a NTC means you cannot be traded, ever.

I'm taking the position that a NTC can be broken and your taking the position that it's impossible to trade Rielly because he has a NTC. We both know in the past players with NTC have been traded, please explain to me in simple terms, so I will "know how it works"...

 

[ACC1224]

You keep saying that but I gave you a list of 25 players, which was quite easy to find, who waived their NTC to be traded. Even with that evidence to consider, please tell the class how a NTC means you cannot be traded, ever.

I'm taking the position that a NTC can be broken and your taking the position that it's impossible to trade Rielly because he has a NTC. We both know in the past players with NTC have been traded, please explain to me in simple terms, so I will "know how it works"...

A NTC/NMC can’t be broken no matter how much you wish that to be true. It can be waived by the player. If the player doesn’t waive he can’t be moved. This is basic stuff, stop replying about it. You’re just looking silly.

Here’s a simple task. List the players who didn’t waive a NMC and were moved.

 

[frizzer1]

Matthews has never been this bad at stickhandling in his entire career.

 

[Stephen]

I've always subscribed to the axiom, your word is all you got. I feel if you are going to hand out NTC/NMC, you think that is something that is going to help you win that championship. Your word, should not be something you use to manipulate a player into signing a contract you have no plans in honoring. I'm in the first camp you illustrated, don't give them out.

I think a NTC/NMC clause is different than giving someone your word. It's a negotiated protection which puts protection into the hands of the player so they aren't at the whim of someone who gave a "promise." If conditions change you can renegotiate and they can be part of the process finding a new team.

 

[LeafsNation75]

A NTC/NMC can’t be broken no matter how much you wish that to be true. It can be waived by the player. If the player doesn’t waive he can’t be moved. This is basic stuff, stop replying about it. You’re just looking silly.

Here’s a simple task. List the players who didn’t waive a NMC and were moved.

If it wasn't for Matt Murray's NTC he would have been traded from Ottawa to Buffalo.

Ottawa Senators Matt Murray Buffalo Sabres | TSN

While the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres worked out a trade for Matt Murray, the goaltender will be staying put for now. Murray had the Sabres, who would have received an additional asset for acquiring him, on his 10-team no-trade list and declined to waive for the move.

www.tsn.ca

 

[ACC1224]

If it wasn't for Matt Murray's NTC he would have been traded from Ottawa to Buffalo.

Ottawa Senators Matt Murray Buffalo Sabres | TSN

While the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres worked out a trade for Matt Murray, the goaltender will be staying put for now. Murray had the Sabres, who would have received an additional asset for acquiring him, on his 10-team no-trade list and declined to waive for the move.

www.tsn.ca

Perhaps they needed better Lawyers to break the contract as Hellcat suggests

 

[Damisoph]

Say what you will about Mo - he's one of the few guys on this roster that consistently produces in the playoffs.

 

[Maple Leaf]

played pretty good without him

 

[Dekes For Days]

played pretty good without him

Played pretty good with him.

 

[LaPlante94]

played pretty good without him

Played pretty good without Brodie too. Sandin as well. Should move them all and move forward with Gio and Holl as the #1 & 2 and make a run for the cup.

 

[Stephen]

If it wasn't for Matt Murray's NTC he would have been traded from Ottawa to Buffalo.

Ottawa Senators Matt Murray Buffalo Sabres | TSN

While the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres worked out a trade for Matt Murray, the goaltender will be staying put for now. Murray had the Sabres, who would have received an additional asset for acquiring him, on his 10-team no-trade list and declined to waive for the move.

www.tsn.ca

NTC's and NMC's just allow an athlete to have some say in where their next destination is.

 

[Hellcat]

A NTC/NMC can’t be broken no matter how much you wish that to be true. It can be waived by the player. If the player doesn’t waive he can’t be moved. This is basic stuff, stop replying about it. You’re just looking silly.

Here’s a simple task. List the players who didn’t waive a NMC and were moved.

In the half dozen-ish reply's to you, that is exactly what I said, you create conditions where the player WANTS to waive his NTC and you kept replying that, "I was not getting it" , Jebus, some people on this forum.

 

[Hellcat]

Perhaps they needed better Lawyers to break the contract as Hellcat suggests

Ah yes, the old half truth post ... fun ... you know what they say, when you tell a half truth, you tell a complete lie. Disappointing.

What I said was "As long as there are lawyers and people willing to change rules, there is no contract that can't be broken."

Perhaps you need a lawyer to read though these super complicated posts , might keep you from misinterpreting the post.

 

[ACC1224]

In the half dozen-ish reply's to you, that is exactly what I said, you create conditions where the player WANTS to waive his NTC and you kept replying that, "I was not getting it" , Jebus, some people on this forum.

It actually started with you saying a good lawyer could break any contract. Perhaps you have short term memory issues, all good.

Tell me about these conditions they will create? Should be entertaining.