Line Combos: New lineup??

[notDatsyuk]

If hockey is a strong link game, then the team with the best players on the ice at all times tend to win more (makes sense).

This should apply at the individual lineup level as well. So they keep rolling line after line with at least one elite player on it. Even if their individual totals go down, the team itself will benefit.

Are these guys team players or not?

I don't disagree, but I have no idea what your post has to do with mine.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's worth tinkering with but you have to look at total line quality and time on ice. You're making the first line weak against top competition and the third line strong, but the first line plays more minutes. Now we have Knies and Domi battling Hedman and Ekholm and Marner is defending their bottom sixers.

Pens were a rare example as Crosby was able to maintain top line quality with lesser players in a way no player has been able to in a long time.

We don't have a Crosby and we haven't had the money to make spreading out the talent work very well even across just two lines. Kampf can't be the centerman for both Willy and Mitch. This year is a bit different, but naturally defense is now a going concern.

You make a good point.

From what I understand line matching is a zero-sum game. For every minute your top line plays against their bottom line the reverse happens. So the theory is that by splitting the talent up, you don't even have to worry about line matching, you just keep rolling lines.

You can always go back to the more traditional lineups, or put the stars all together on a nuclear top line if you fall behind, and they will all still be on the power play together.

I'm not too sure how much I buy into the idea to be honest. Certainly most coaches don't seem to operate this way. It's probably more academic than anything with no little basis in reality.

Like the time I read a research paper suggesting faceoffs aren't important.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don't disagree, but I have no idea what your post has to do with mine.

I was responding to the part about Tavares struggling without support from one of the best wingers in the game.

You nailed it. Tavares will have a hard time without an elite winger beside him. Look at his stats for the three years before Barzal arrived and after.

I don't think it's a coincidence Tavares found his scoring touch again once he started playing with all this elite talent the last six years.

 

[TMLAM34]

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
Robertson - Domi - Jarnkrok
Lafferty - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Liljegren
McCabe - Klingberg
Brodie - Timmins


Samsonov - Woll

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Niagara Bill]

I don't disagree, but I have no idea what your post has to do with mine.

I do disagree with Blue and White.
It is not necessary to have best player on the ice, it is also great to have best line combo doing a task. Example, a great 3rd line combo who focus on shutting down McDavid and Draisaitl can be an effective weapon without being best players.

 

[conFABulator]

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
Robertson - Domi - Jarnkrok
Lafferty - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Liljegren
McCabe - Klingberg
Brodie - Timmins


Samsonov - Woll

I am not picking on YOUR lineup specifically, not picking on it at all actually.

My question is what do you with that fourth line? IMO Kampf needs to anchor a shut down line and that one cannot have Reaves on it. I also don't think it can have Robertson or Domi on it. This is what makes the Reaves role tricky.

I am thinking...

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
(#1a line that can score and has a defensive conscience with Matthews - 15 ES minutes per game)

Domi Tavares Marner
(#1b line that can score and gas a defensive conscience with Marner. Also interested to see if Marner and Domi can reignite OHL chemistry. Might also allow for Domi to play some C - 15 ES minutes per game)

Knies Kampf Jarnkrok
(#3 line that can play strong defensively (I think Knies can do that) and can chip in some offense - 12 ES minutes per game)

Lafferty Gambrell Reaves
(#4 line that brings energy and the nuclear deterrent that is Reaves. It could also have Lafferty at C and McMann on the wing, maybe Gregor - 6 ES minutes per game).

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander would all get 4 to 5 minutes per night on the PP and Marner, Kampf, Lafferty, Jarnkrok, and Gambrell each get 2 to 3 minutes on the PK.

I think Robertson starts in the minors and a top six injury might make room for him. Or they might shuffle to 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line with Reaves being scratched when we don't need what he brings.

 

[LeafChief]

I am not picking on YOUR lineup specifically, not picking on it at all actually.

My question is what do you with that fourth line? IMO Kampf needs to anchor a shut down line and that one cannot have Reaves on it. I also don't think it can have Robertson or Domi on it. This is what makes the Reaves role tricky.

I am thinking...

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
(#1a line that can score and has a defensive conscience with Matthews - 15 ES minutes per game)

Domi Tavares Marner
(#1b line that can score and gas a defensive conscience with Marner. Also interested to see if Marner and Domi can reignite OHL chemistry. Might also allow for Domi to play some C g - 15 ES minutes per game)

Knies Kampf Jarnkrok
(#3 line that can play strong defensively (I think Knies can do that) and can chip in some offense - 12 ES minutes per game)

Lafferty Gambrell Reaves
(#4 line that brings energy and the nuclear deterrent that is Reaves. It could also have Lafferty at C and McMann on the wing, maybe Gregor - 6 ES minutes per game).

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander would all get 4 to 5 minutes per night on the PP and Marner, Kampf, Lafferty, Jarnkrok, and Gambrell each get 2 to 3 minutes on the PK.

I think Robertson starts in the minors and a top six injury might make room for him. Or they might shuffle to 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line with Reaves being scratched when we don't need what he brings.

This is how I am seeing it too. Other than Gambrell.

I think it's Lafferty as 4C and either McMann or Gregor on the left side. You more or less mentioned this as well.

 

[TMLAM34]

Early last year I was really pushing for us to trade for Bertuzzi and McCabe on this forum.

I think Bertuzzi, Matthews and Nylander have all the tools to become one of the best lines in the league. Elite zone entries by Nylander, speed from Nylander and Bertuzzi, elite shooting from Matthews and Nylander, willingness to go to the front of the net from Bertuzzi, great playmaking abilities from Nylander and Bertuzzi, etc.

When I was advocating for a McCabe trade, the mindset was to acquire him due to his ability to play on the right side. He’s good defensively, can play a physical style and still make a good first pass. If we can convince him to focus on those things and keeping his game simple I think him and Rielly would be a real solid pairing.

 

[conFABulator]

Early last year I was really pushing for us to trade for Bertuzzi and McCabe on this forum.

I think Bertuzzi, Matthews and Nylander have all the tools to become one of the best lines in the league. Elite zone entries by Nylander, speed from Nylander and Bertuzzi, elite shooting from Matthews and Nylander, willingness to go to the front of the net from Bertuzzi, great playmaking abilities from Nylander and Bertuzzi, etc.

When I was advocating for a McCabe trade, the mindset was to acquire him due to his ability to play on the right side. He’s good defensively, can play a physical style and still make a good first pass. If we can convince him to focus on those things and keeping his game simple I think him and Rielly would be a real solid pairing.

McCabe being a good fit with Rielly answers a few questions for us for sure.

Rielly McCabe
Brodie Klingberg
Giordano Liljegren
Benoit Timmins

If Klingberg doesn't show he can handle top 4 we can swap him and Lilly.

Benoit and Timmins provide depth for injuries and to load manage Gio (and maybe even Brodie) a bit. Because Brodie and McCabe each play both sides we have options for sure.

 

[LeafChief]

Early last year I was really pushing for us to trade for Bertuzzi and McCabe on this forum.

I think Bertuzzi, Matthews and Nylander have all the tools to become one of the best lines in the league. Elite zone entries by Nylander, speed from Nylander and Bertuzzi, elite shooting from Matthews and Nylander, willingness to go to the front of the net from Bertuzzi, great playmaking abilities from Nylander and Bertuzzi, etc.

When I was advocating for a McCabe trade, the mindset was to acquire him due to his ability to play on the right side. He’s good defensively, can play a physical style and still make a good first pass. If we can convince him to focus on those things and keeping his game simple I think him and Rielly would be a real solid pairing.

McCabe being a good fit with Rielly answers a few questions for us for sure.

Rielly McCabe
Brodie Klingberg
Giordano Liljegren
Benoit Timmins

If Klingberg doesn't show he can handle top 4 we can swap him and Lilly.

Benoit and Timmins provide depth for injuries and to load manage Gio (and maybe even Brodie) a bit. Because Brodie and McCabe each play both sides we have options for sure.

If McCabe is able to slide to the right and provide for Rielly what Schenn provided last year, it really fixes a lot of the concerns with the D. @conFABulator really outlines it nicely here.

It steadies Rielly. It allows Brodie to be that defensive presence beside Klingberg (which will hopefully allow Klingberg to break out into the offensive weapon that he should be) and it gets Liljegren next to Giordano where Liljegren played some of his better hockey over the last few years. Giordano is of course two years older than he was when they had success initially so having Timmins and Benoit available for some third pair minutes in place of Girodano at times too is nice to have. Although I imagine one (or both) of Timmins/Benoit hit waivers.

 

[TMLAM34]

If McCabe is able to slide to the right and provide for Rielly what Schenn provided last year, it really fixes a lot of the concerns with the D. @conFABulator really outlines it nicely here.

It steadies Rielly. It allows Brodie to be that defensive presence beside Klingberg (which will hopefully allow Klingberg to break out into the offensive weapon that he should be) and it gets Liljegren next to Giordano where Liljegren played some of his better hockey over the last few years. Giordano is of course two years older than he was when they had success initially so having Timmins and Benoit available for some third pair minutes in place of Girodano at times too is nice to have. Although I imagine one (or both) of Timmins/Benoit hit waivers.

It would also allow you to pair Brodie in a shut down pair with potentially Liljegren.

Rielly - McCabe
Brodie - Liljegren
Giordano/Benoit - Klingberg

Pretty balanced and deep blueline.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I am not picking on YOUR lineup specifically, not picking on it at all actually.

My question is what do you with that fourth line? IMO Kampf needs to anchor a shut down line and that one cannot have Reaves on it. I also don't think it can have Robertson or Domi on it. This is what makes the Reaves role tricky.

I am thinking...

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
(#1a line that can score and has a defensive conscience with Matthews - 15 ES minutes per game)

Domi Tavares Marner
(#1b line that can score and gas a defensive conscience with Marner. Also interested to see if Marner and Domi can reignite OHL chemistry. Might also allow for Domi to play some C - 15 ES minutes per game)

Knies Kampf Jarnkrok
(#3 line that can play strong defensively (I think Knies can do that) and can chip in some offense - 12 ES minutes per game)

Lafferty Gambrell Reaves
(#4 line that brings energy and the nuclear deterrent that is Reaves. It could also have Lafferty at C and McMann on the wing, maybe Gregor - 6 ES minutes per game).

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander would all get 4 to 5 minutes per night on the PP and Marner, Kampf, Lafferty, Jarnkrok, and Gambrell each get 2 to 3 minutes on the PK.

I think Robertson starts in the minors and a top six injury might make room for him. Or they might shuffle to 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line with Reaves being scratched when we don't need what he brings.

I agree with a lot of this.

Just to add:

TMLAM34,

I don't know why you would put Brodie on the bottom 6 d-pairings. To minimize his minutes would be foolish. He had a bad series vs FLA, but so did a lot of players. Until he plays bad enough for long enough he should be in TOR's top 4.

 

[TMLAM34]

I agree with a lot of this.

Just to add:

TMLAM34,

I don't know why you would put Brodie on the bottom 6 d-pairings. To minimize his minutes would be foolish. He had a bad series vs FLA, but so did a lot of players. Until he plays bad enough for long enough he should be in TOR's top 4.

It was for a more balanced approach but mainly because when Brodie and Timmins played together last year I really liked what I saw from the two of them. But I do agree, Brodie will definitely be getting top four minutes.

If McCabe slides over to the right side with Rielly, Brodie can either play alongside Klingberg to provide the stead defensive presence on that unit or be paired with Liljegren in a more shutdown unit.

 

[13pacheco31]

I am not picking on YOUR lineup specifically, not picking on it at all actually.

My question is what do you with that fourth line? IMO Kampf needs to anchor a shut down line and that one cannot have Reaves on it. I also don't think it can have Robertson or Domi on it. This is what makes the Reaves role tricky.

I am thinking...

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
(#1a line that can score and has a defensive conscience with Matthews - 15 ES minutes per game)

Domi Tavares Marner
(#1b line that can score and gas a defensive conscience with Marner. Also interested to see if Marner and Domi can reignite OHL chemistry. Might also allow for Domi to play some C - 15 ES minutes per game)

Knies Kampf Jarnkrok
(#3 line that can play strong defensively (I think Knies can do that) and can chip in some offense - 12 ES minutes per game)

Lafferty Gambrell Reaves
(#4 line that brings energy and the nuclear deterrent that is Reaves. It could also have Lafferty at C and McMann on the wing, maybe Gregor - 6 ES minutes per game).

Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander would all get 4 to 5 minutes per night on the PP and Marner, Kampf, Lafferty, Jarnkrok, and Gambrell each get 2 to 3 minutes on the PK.

I think Robertson starts in the minors and a top six injury might make room for him. Or they might shuffle to 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line with Reaves being scratched when we don't need what he brings.

I really like this line

 

[IPS]

If McCabe is able to slide to the right and provide for Rielly what Schenn provided last year, it really fixes a lot of the concerns with the D. @conFABulator really outlines it nicely here.

It steadies Rielly. It allows Brodie to be that defensive presence beside Klingberg (which will hopefully allow Klingberg to break out into the offensive weapon that he should be) and it gets Liljegren next to Giordano where Liljegren played some of his better hockey over the last few years. Giordano is of course two years older than he was when they had success initially so having Timmins and Benoit available for some third pair minutes in place of Girodano at times too is nice to have. Although I imagine one (or both) of Timmins/Benoit hit waivers.

Is McCabe actually capable of playing the right side?

 

[TMLAM34]

Is McCabe actually capable of playing the right side?

He has played the right side effectively before. However is better on the left side.

 

[Puckstuff]

Balance the top 9

Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner
Domi-Holmberg-Nylander
Knies—Matthews-Jarnkrok
Robertson-Kampf-Lafferty

 

[weems]

What's everyones thoughts on Holmberg last season?

Thought he showed some good skills and looked like a future NHL player but didn't pay much attention to his defensive play.

When projecting these hypothetical lineups, our lineup always looks deeper when he's an option on the 3rd or 4th line.

If he looks ready in camp, I think he should definitely be in the lineup somehow.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

What's everyones thoughts on Holmberg last season?

Thought he showed some good skills and looked like a future NHL player but didn't pay much attention to his defensive play.

When projecting these hypothetical lineups, our lineup always looks deeper when he's an option on the 3rd or 4th line.

If he looks ready in camp, I think he should definitely be in the lineup somehow.

It's hard to disagree. I don't know if players like Lafferty & Acciari made all that much difference in the playoffs. Maybe Acciari did some. I was a little let down that Holmberg didn't stay on the team for the end of the season and the playoffs. Dubas ended up moving out/in so many bottom 6 players. I would hope Treliving/Keefe find a good thing with who we have now, but I somehow doubt that. Many already believe that Reaves won't see much ice time in the playoffs. It's hard to challenge that...

 

[X66]

We're going to see a lot of looks this year for sure, but wonder how Domi would look with Matthews.

I'd imagine opening line-up will look like this...

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner
Domi-Tavares-Nylander
Knies-Kampf-Jarnkrok
Lafferty-Gambrell-Reaves
Hoping for Robertson/McMann though.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Bertuzzi Matthews Nylander
Domi Tavares Marner
Knies Kampf Jarnkrok
Lafferty Holmberg Reaves
McMann

Robertson first injury call up.

Explore options to upgrade 3C by the trade deadline. Kampf at 4C come playoff time gives better experience and depth to the lineup.

I like splitting up Matthews and Marner as Tavares has been much better with Marner and the defence suffers with Willy and JT together. I think Matthews can produce with or without and they become too predictable at times.

Swap McMann in for Reaves when playing against softer teams.

Gambrell challenges Holmberg in camp for the 4C slot.
---------

Rielly Liljegren
Brodie Klingberg
McCabe Timmins
Gio

Time to take the training wheels off of Lily. See how he does with Rielly. I think Brodie with a motivated Klingberg could be a great pairing as they make up for each other's deficiencies. On paper it should be solid. McCabe Timmins adds some bite and size. Gio can rotate in and out. He looked worn out by the playoffs last year.

It would be nice to upgrade on D at the deadline but I would want to see how Lily does with Rielly and how effective Klingberg can be before making a big move.
----------
Goalies are Sammy and Woll. Nothing special but play the hot hand. Sammy can be great in spurts and Woll has potential and youth on his side.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

In regards to our special teams line-ups, I’m really curious as to what our pk unit will be like. We were 13th last year, close to middle of the pack and lost some pretty good pkers (Acciari, Kerfoot,Holl). Wonder if this is the year they start trying Matthews on the PK. As it stands though:

1st unit
Marner-Kampf-Brodie-McCabe

2nd unit
Jarnkrok-(Matthews/Holmberg/Gambrell/???)-Gio-Lily

Not sure.

Our PP unit I’m not worried about. Will be tough to match the 2nd best ranking from last year but I think our PP 2nd unit is improved from last year.

 

[conFABulator]

In regards to our special teams line-ups, I’m really curious as to what our pk unit will be like. We were 13th last year, close to middle of the pack and lost some pretty good pkers (Acciari, Kerfoot,Holl). Wonder if this is the year they start trying Matthews on the PK. As it stands though:

1st unit
Marner-Kampf-Brodie-McCabe

2nd unit
Jarnkrok-(Matthews/Holmberg/Gambrell/???)-Gio-Lily

Not sure.

Our PP unit I’m not worried about. Will be tough to match the 2nd best ranking from last year but I think our PP 2nd unit is improved from last year.

I have been thinking about the PK as well.

I think Lafferty probably gets some time. I could see this being why Gambrell makes the team also. I can't see Holmberg or Robertson beating out Gambrell for the final spot based on PK and waiver status.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

I have been thinking about the PK as well.

I think Lafferty probably gets some time. I could see this being why Gambrell makes the team also. I can't see Holmberg or Robertson beating out Gambrell for the final spot based on PK and waiver status.

Good call on Lafferty, forgot about him. I don’t think Keefe used him on the pk last year but considering his speed he should be good for the role.