Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Thanks to @cupcrazyman for posting this on the Sarnia board... sheds some more light on things London Memorial Cup champ says he'll join junior-hockey lawsuit
New law suit
- Thread starter three dog night
- Start date
ALF AmericanLionsFan
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Any way to read without full membership to Athletic? I’d pay a fee to just read article.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
ALF AmericanLionsFan
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OMG67
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Hazing can take many form. For example, it is common for rookies to load all the equipment on the bus. THAT is also hazing.
HockeyPops
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Crease Master
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Can anybody shed some light on why Bill Bowler is still in a position of power with an OHL hockey team? I brought this up in the Windsor thread, but because of hockey's warped protectionist mentality my concerns were minimized and dismissed. Its actually quite comical to read people condemning the toxic culture in hockey in one post, and then making excuses for Bill Bowler in their next post. The way the Windsor fans responded to what I said about Bowler is the perfect example of how even fans play a role in perpetuating the endless cycle of abuse of power we see in junior hockey. For those that may be unaware, I'll provide a bit of background on the situation:
Bill Bowler as captain of the Spitfires was charged back in the 90s with sexual assault along with two teammates. Charges were dropped because the crown felt there wasn't enough evidence to result in a conviction. Fast forward a few years and Bill Bowler as assistant coach of the Windsor Spitfires was present on the bus when Akim Aliu was hot boxed in the infamous hazing incident. Fast forward to today, that same Bill Bowler is the GM of the Windsor Spitfires, in the ultimate position of power over all of the players.
I understand the man's number hangs in the rafters, and we can't put history on trial however this isn't about what Bowler may or may not have done. Its about making sure the environment that allowed these things never happens again, and I fail to see how having that man in that position is going to accomplish that. Branch approved this guy as GM, any thoughts?
Bill Bowler as captain of the Spitfires was charged back in the 90s with sexual assault along with two teammates. Charges were dropped because the crown felt there wasn't enough evidence to result in a conviction. Fast forward a few years and Bill Bowler as assistant coach of the Windsor Spitfires was present on the bus when Akim Aliu was hot boxed in the infamous hazing incident. Fast forward to today, that same Bill Bowler is the GM of the Windsor Spitfires, in the ultimate position of power over all of the players.
I understand the man's number hangs in the rafters, and we can't put history on trial however this isn't about what Bowler may or may not have done. Its about making sure the environment that allowed these things never happens again, and I fail to see how having that man in that position is going to accomplish that. Branch approved this guy as GM, any thoughts?
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Regarding the sexual assault, charges were dropped... not much else you can do about that.
Regarding the bus incident, maybe through the investigation it was determined that he wanted to intervene but was told by the coach not to? Pure speculation, but you would have to figure if he was any way at fault it would have come out in the investigation
RoyalCitySlicker
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- Sep 6, 2013
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Yes, it's hazing. It's also unnecessary.
There doesn't need to be a line drawn as to what constitutes 'acceptable' forms of hazing. Let's just do away with it all and move on.
AttackSound
Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
I beg to argue that fact, yes it can be looked at a form of hazing but when you say rookies that's where I have to ask when have you ever seen just ALL the rookies of a team where just the rookies be hazed by loading the bus??
If so please elaborate on when you've actually witnessed happen before??
Yes in some ways you're right but let's look at it this way not every team has the all the rookies load the bus in this league. For example in Owen Sound every player is responsible for their own equipment on and off the bus everybody has a specific spot where there equipment will fit and every player helps out and the team staff do too that includes bench staff (trainers). No every team can afford extra staff to load and unload players equipment in this league.
So before you state something that is pure speculation I suggest that you have more concrete point like when? Or where? Even what team? If it has happened in the league then please elaborate on who in this league (team) have you seen do this??
there will likely always be a “power structure” when you have guys that are signed to NHL contracts and can legally drink on a team with kids who can’t even drive a car by themselves. it’s human nature.
it’s a bit radical to think that this can just be wiped away all at once. it starts with eliminating the extreme hazing activities, such as the things that Eric Guest, Dan Carcillo among others have listed off.
players need to understand that there’s a line between loading the bus and forcing a 16 year old to do cocaine. there also has to be better support for players to go to if they feel that this line has been crossed. once you’ve gotten the extreme things out of the game, then you can revisit the minor hazing like picking up pucks or loading the bus.
it’s a bit radical to think that this can just be wiped away all at once. it starts with eliminating the extreme hazing activities, such as the things that Eric Guest, Dan Carcillo among others have listed off.
players need to understand that there’s a line between loading the bus and forcing a 16 year old to do cocaine. there also has to be better support for players to go to if they feel that this line has been crossed. once you’ve gotten the extreme things out of the game, then you can revisit the minor hazing like picking up pucks or loading the bus.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
I have a 15 (almost 16) year old son - and while I expect there will be times he makes immature decisions/mistakes, that fact does not exempt him from consequences for his behaviour. There are expectations surrounding his conduct between his father and I....and if at his age, he did NOT know that sexually assaulting/the violent hazing of a teammate - or staying silent and complicit in the face of either - was wrong, then we as his parents have not done our job. At the same time, if I were to entrust the care of my child (a minor, at that) to the *supposedly* responsible adults in charge of the team he was playing for - I'd want to know that his physical/emotional/mental health was being taken seriously - and if it wasn't (and I found out about it) then as the parent of a minor, the team's needs at that time wouldn't matter a bit. At the ages these players are, they should have a basic sense of right vs. wrong -- and if putting them up on such a high pedestal is one of the root causes of this issue, then perhaps the pedestal needs to be knocked down and the system redeveloped CHL wide.
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Very well said.
I have the same feelings on this but don’t think I could have worded it as good as this. These are not “kids” they are “young adults.” They might make small mistakes as they are still learning and can be immature but there is a difference between being immature vs overall poor behavior.
It’s embarrassing for the CHL. You don’t see this consistent type of behavior in high school sports or most college sports that I know. It’s a culture thing and sadly the CHL has allowed it to go on (that includes league officials and individual team officials). No place for it and that type of behavior should result in player X being kicked out of the league and coach X being banned for life if they partaked and certainly abolished if they know of it and don’t address
Crease Master
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- Dec 17, 2016
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That doesn't happen. In the OHL when you display this kind of behavior you end up as a GM. Take Bill Bowler with the Spitfires for example: Akim Aliu and the other rookies are stripped naked and forced into the bus bathroom on a trip home. The coach and his assistants do nothing to stop it, but head coach Moe Mantha is the only coach held responsible by the league. Why? As an assistant coach Bill Bowler likely would have been even more aware of what team leadership was up to at the back of the bus than the head coach, but for some reason he was not held accountable, as far as the league is concerned it was all Moe. Now that he's the GM of the team, do you think any players will feel safe going to him with an issue? Its sick.
You seem awfully uncomfortable with all of this. Guilty conscience?
Hockey is like that though. If you're a hockey lifer you will be given every chance hell or high water to make good. Heck the Spitfires example for a full year they played a guy that was convicted of sexual assault 2 years later and some fans still cheered when he would get a goal even with that hanging over his head. There are a lot of things in wrong in sports overall eg.. the lack of females in the big 4. Yes some sports are being more progressive but they are far from breaking some glass ceiling. It's about time started being comfortable being uncomfortable but with sports and machoism you won't see it.
Crease Master
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I don't care how many women are involved in sport, that isnt the issue here. Police departments have all sorts of women on the force and it doesn't stop the abuse of power there, it isn't going to stop it on a hockey team either. To fix a problem you need to address the problem, not treat the symptoms. Sexism, racism, homophobia, and hazing are just symptoms of the problem in hockey, not the problem itself. The problem is abuse of power and protecting those who do it.
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Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
ohloutsider
Registered User
Th
This may get ugly before it gets fixed so here's hoping it does get fixed. I just hope this group is not just window dressing and can swing the hatchet when required.
This may get ugly before it gets fixed so here's hoping it does get fixed. I just hope this group is not just window dressing and can swing the hatchet when required.
Crease Master
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This just gives Branch a buffer to blame other people if things go wrong. Kid abused? Hey, the independent panel approved our policies so its not our fault!
Hazing has been around for a long time. In the 80's when I played Junior B the vets used to try and intimidate the rookies. Not all vets but always a few guys who were hazed themselves thought it was their job to keep it going. I remember in Fort Erie they taped a guy to a chair naked between periods and stuck him in the shower. Instead of turning cold water on it was scolding hot water and burns were inevitable. If you didn't mind your own business you would pay the price. Most rookies had their private area shaved. It was horrible and kept quiet amongst your teammates. The shaving was done during team parties and certain people seemed to actually enjoy tormenting their teammates. The coaches in my case were mostly unaware of what happened.
Personally I thought this was totally going to far but their was never any punishment at that time. This is a far cry from loading the bus or picking up pucks between periods. IMO no hazing is the best but to make it fun and make the rookies feel a part of the team would be much more productive for all involved. Instead of being alienated by your peers which had damaging affects on some of the young guys. I only say this to show how counter productive the whole barbaric ritual was. Hazing was wide spread throughout the league some teams worse than others. Glad to see they are trying to put an end to these senseless actions.
Personally I thought this was totally going to far but their was never any punishment at that time. This is a far cry from loading the bus or picking up pucks between periods. IMO no hazing is the best but to make it fun and make the rookies feel a part of the team would be much more productive for all involved. Instead of being alienated by your peers which had damaging affects on some of the young guys. I only say this to show how counter productive the whole barbaric ritual was. Hazing was wide spread throughout the league some teams worse than others. Glad to see they are trying to put an end to these senseless actions.
Not really wanting to comment on what happened and what didn’t happen.
If the motivations behind the participants in the lawsuit are to be believed (bring awareness and protect future kids from abuse) I don’t like the smell test on the damages being sought. Potentially crippling an entire league financially by looking for monies is not the only way to achieve their goals in my mind? Yes some of these clubs can easily pay 100K each (just an arbitrary number out of thin air) no problem but for most of them it will mean a cut in the budget somewhere to pay for it. In the end this will simply hurt the same kids they are saying they are wanting to protect.
Has to have been an alternate process that could have been used to get to their end goal, without all the lawyers and court costs etc.
If the motivations behind the participants in the lawsuit are to be believed (bring awareness and protect future kids from abuse) I don’t like the smell test on the damages being sought. Potentially crippling an entire league financially by looking for monies is not the only way to achieve their goals in my mind? Yes some of these clubs can easily pay 100K each (just an arbitrary number out of thin air) no problem but for most of them it will mean a cut in the budget somewhere to pay for it. In the end this will simply hurt the same kids they are saying they are wanting to protect.
Has to have been an alternate process that could have been used to get to their end goal, without all the lawyers and court costs etc.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Doubt it.... obviously the changes the league said they would make after the Downie/Aliu incident didn't change a thing. The lawsuit is exactly what needs to happen and hopefully other leagues will see the result and make changes too. It's a hockey culture that needs to change
