The Athletic - Boston Neely: "We have to be as brutally honest as possible"

[Deuce17]

Oh no of course not..just to clarify, I'm not calling for his resignation or anything like that. I just want a good hard look in the mirror from everyone in the front office because, IMO, the situation they find themselves in at the moment is a direct result of their collective actions up top(Neely, Sweeney, Bradley, JFJ, etc.). I don't think not beating Tampa in 2018 or 2020 was due to player underperformance, in both cases...the roster that was iced was just not good enough. I think we got incredibly lucky last year that other teams did our dirty work and TB, Pitt, and WSH were eliminated early. Toronto was the best team we faced until the cup finals. The holes they find themselves trying to fill this summer, a top 6 wing and 1 maybe 2 top 4 defenders. The aging core with no real succession plan, all of that is a direct result of not only front office moves, but the front offices inability to learn from mistakes and apply learnings forward.

I don't know how you can have David Backes on your roster and think the John Moore signing was a good idea. I don't know how you can live through the result of the Seguin trade and ship Reilly Smith off for an AHLer. I don't know how you can let Carl Soderberg walk without getting anything for him at the deadline and then do the same thing the following year with Loui. I don't know how you can see that Karson Kuhlman in the top 6 is a problem and then start the year off with Brett Ritchie. The list goes on and on.

The past is the past, you can't change it..but jeesh, learn from it fellas.

But yeah, for me, I'm happy they got one 10 years ago, but unless something changes fast..I feel like we're going to be watching #33 and #37 go to the rafters saying "man...what if." should have.."

Or you could just look at the body of work and form a judgement like smart people do instead of getting ready to fire him after and every micro event??? It’s a hard salary cap and impossibly tough decisions are repeatedly required. Get over the trades that haven’t worked out and judge him on the results Christ

 

[BB88]

If they drafted Barzal there is no reason to think the rest of the team would be the same.

You can't just add Barzal and then assume nothing else would have changed in the way the team was handled. For one thing, with Barzal at center Coyle would be a right winger still. Not the same player he was at center in the playoffs.

Barzal is a franchise C, I'll take that change

Barzal, Pasta, McAvoy= the best u25 core in the league

Marchand- Bergeron- Rask on top of it elite core.

 

[Dr Hook]

If Barzal were drafted instead of Senyshyn, Barzal would be mired in Providence logging 4th line minutes with two stiffs and people here would be lamenting them not drafting someone else...

Yes, we'd be hearing how they are developing his 2 way game! (and for all the he does offensively, his two way game kind of sucks)

 

[LSCII]

Yes, we'd be hearing how they are developing his 2 way game! (and for all the he does offensively, his two way game kind of sucks)

Exactly. That's why I laugh every time someone talks about Barzal. He's a liability on the ice except for the offensive zone and this team has shown they have little to no use for players like that. Which is why I'm convinced Barzal would be in Providence if he'd have been drafted here.

 

[Dr Hook]

This actually does bring up something that kind of pisses me off and that is how they've handled Senyshyn. The guy is fast and can snipe. So what the hell was the problem in giving him a year in Providence to acclimate to the pro game and then putting him out there? Because he was not defensively responsible? Let him learn on the job, ffs. The Bruins have had one of the stingiest defenses in the league for a long time- a strong D corps and top notch goaltending. Could they really not afford to let a kid like Senyshyn get out there and try to score goals because he might turn the puck over or miss a back checking assignment?

 

[LSCII]

This actually does bring up something that kind of pisses me off and that is how they've handled Senyshyn. The guy is fast and can snipe. So what the hell was the problem in giving him a year in Providence to acclimate to the pro game and then putting him out there? Because he was not defensively responsible? Let him learn on the job, ffs. The Bruins have had one of the stingiest defenses in the league for a long time- a strong D corps and top notch goaltending. Could they really not afford to let a kid like Senyshyn get out there and try to score goals because he might turn the puck over or miss a back checking assignment?

Especially since they'd be spotting him in good situations only, presumably. Like offensive zone starts and zero defensive zone starts. PP toi and really working the match ups. You know, like how every other organization in the world does it?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Exactly. That's why I laugh every time someone talks about Barzal. He's a liability on the ice except for the offensive zone and this team has shown they have little to no use for players like that. Which is why I'm convinced Barzal would be in Providence if he'd have been drafted here.

Don't believe that for a second.

You really can't compare his skill set with the likes of Senyshyn or Spooner.

 

[LSCII]

Don't believe that for a second.

You really can't compare his skill set with the likes of Senyshyn or Spooner.

Hard to say. Plenty of other examples as well.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Barzal is a franchise C, I'll take that change

Barzal, Pasta, McAvoy= the best u25 core in the league

Marchand- Bergeron- Rask on top of it elite core.

We're talking about winning the Cup last year.

Barzal had 62 points in 82 games for the Islanders last year. He was -5, second worst on the team. He struggled.

Lets not crown him a franchise player just yet. Consider Debrusk has scored more goals in less games than him so far.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Or you could just look at the body of work and form a judgement like smart people do instead of getting ready to fire him after and every micro event??? It’s a hard salary cap and impossibly tough decisions are repeatedly required. Get over the trades that haven’t worked out and judge him on the results Christ

we are, his results suck and he's been carried by the acquisitions of prior GMs, not his own moves or skill

Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, Krejci, Chara, Krug, Rask.

He hasn't won a trade since Lucic, and hasnt had a good UFA signing in ever. The 2nd line has needed 1.5 wings for years now with no fix. 5 years in the only notable additions from Sweeney are McAvoy, Carlo and DeBrusk.

Meanwhile in his 1st 5 years, the laughingstock Chiarelli brought in:

Seidenberg
Boychuk
Ference
McQuaid
Kaberle
Horton
Wheeler
Kessel
Seguin
Peverley
Thornton
Paille
Campbell
Recchi
Ryder
Kelly
Soderberg
Hamilton

That's 5 of 6 D and 9 of 13 F of the Cup winner.


Which isnt trying to pump up Chiarelli's tires or rewrite his total history as a GM, but before Cam became president in 2012 his moves run laps around Sweeney. And I still say its no coincidence that Chiarelli lost his touch the same time Neely took the reigns. The overall player acquisition across 2 GMs and 8 years under Cam is not good

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Hard to say. Plenty of other examples as well.

Debrusk isn't still in Providence, is he?

 

[BB88]

We're talking about winning the Cup last year.

Barzal had 62 points in 82 games for the Islanders last year. He was -5, second worst on the team. He struggled.

Lets not crown him a franchise player just yet. Consider Debrusk has scored more goals in less games than him so far.

Barzal is a playmaker and Trots has been developing him into a 2way player

The guy had 85 points in his rookie season and 60 in 68 this past season and has been a beast these playoffs.

7 points in 8 playoff games last year, 15 in 20 this year

He is superior to DeBrusk and franchise talent

 

[member 96824]

Or you could just look at the body of work and form a judgement like smart people do instead of getting ready to fire him after and every micro event??? It’s a hard salary cap and impossibly tough decisions are repeatedly required. Get over the trades that haven’t worked out and judge him on the results Christ

Or you could read the post you quoted "like smart people also do"

 

[member 96824]

"I'm not calling for his resignation"

"Why don't you do X instead of getting ready to fire him"

-A self-proclaimed smart person.

 

[BAD BOY]

We're talking about winning the Cup last year.

Barzal had 62 points in 82 games for the Islanders last year. He was -5, second worst on the team. He struggled.

Lets not crown him a franchise player just yet. Consider Debrusk has scored more goals in less games than him so far.

Hard to say. Plenty of other examples as well.

Take my chances lol I’m just being sarcastic

 

[LSCII]

Debrusk isn't still in Providence, is he?

Seguin played in the playoffs why?

Krug got in there why?

Hamilton started where when he had a first chance to play in the playoffs?

Koko got a fair shot where?

Again, not saying they're bad, but organizationally speaking, they have a far easier time letting 2 way players up than they do offensively minded young players, despite the lack of secondary scoring. So it's a criticism that is at least debatable.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Barzal is a playmaker and Trots has been developing him into a 2way player

The guy had 85 points in his rookie season and 60 in 68 this past season and has been a beast these playoffs.

7 points in 8 playoff games last year, 15 in 20 this year

He is superior to DeBrusk and franchise talent

Of course he is.

But last season he may have had the exact same scenario in Boston. Cassidy developing him into a two-way player and he struggled. No guarantee the Bruins win the Cup because he's on the roster.

 

[Gee Wally]

Please discuss Barzal in the 2015 Draft Thread.
Thanks,

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Seguin played in the playoffs why?

Krug got in there why?

Hamilton started where when he had a first chance to play in the playoffs?

Koko got a fair shot where?

Again, not saying they're bad, but organizationally speaking, they have a far easier time letting 2 way players up than they do offensively minded young players, despite the lack of secondary scoring. So it's a criticism that is at least debatable.

Seguin wasn't a 2 way player.

Neither was Kessel.

Neither played in Providence.

Top end offensive talent learns at the pro level.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Exactly. That's why I laugh every time someone talks about Barzal. He's a liability on the ice except for the offensive zone and this team has shown they have little to no use for players like that. Which is why I'm convinced Barzal would be in Providence if he'd have been drafted here.

Pastrnak early on was downright awful in the d zone. It was decided his offensive game was worth the gamble. If Senyshyn were lighting up the AHL I have no doubt he’d be a regular in Boston by now.

 

[Estlin]

This actually does bring up something that kind of pisses me off and that is how they've handled Senyshyn. The guy is fast and can snipe. So what the hell was the problem in giving him a year in Providence to acclimate to the pro game and then putting him out there? Because he was not defensively responsible? Let him learn on the job, ffs. The Bruins have had one of the stingiest defenses in the league for a long time- a strong D corps and top notch goaltending. Could they really not afford to let a kid like Senyshyn get out there and try to score goals because he might turn the puck over or miss a back checking assignment?

And what’s wrong with having a purely offensive winger in the lineup? Boston needs a Kessel or Hoffman-type player whose job is to score goals. Pittsburgh won two Stanley Cups with Phil as a winger who was not forced to show defensive prowess. I don’t understand why the Bruins couldn’t have developed Senyshyn to be in the same mold.

 

[LSCII]

Seguin wasn't a 2 way player.

Neither was Kessel.

Neither played in Providence.

Top end offensive talent learns at the pro level.

And yet both were benched in favor of pure garbage, defensively responsible players in the playoffs. To the level where Jeremy "Mr. AHL" Reich played over Kessel and got hit with a penalty to lose a game vs Montreal, if you can recall. Wade "I haven't played in the NHL for years" Redden got in over Krug and it's only because he got hurt that Krug played. Seguin got sat and didn't get in there until Bergeron got a concussion. Lucky for the team that Seguin did play because he lit up Tampa and they won that series because of his contribution.

But sure, elite talent learns at the pro level, except for when they're sat over a silly mistake. You know, like Hamilton was. All while veterans were allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[LSCII]

Pastrnak early on was downright awful in the d zone. It was decided his offensive game was worth the gamble. If Senyshyn were lighting up the AHL I have no doubt he’d be a regular in Boston by now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they loaned out Pasta to his junior national team 2 successive years, no?

 

[bp13]

Please discuss Barzal in the 2015 Draft Thread.
Thanks,

Hang on...Barzal was in the 2015 Draft?

Why didn’t we take him then!?!?

 

[mjhfb]

And what’s wrong with having a purely offensive winger in the lineup? Boston needs a Kessel or Hoffman-type player whose job is to score goals. Pittsburgh won two Stanley Cups with Phil as a winger who was not forced to show defensive prowess. I don’t understand why the Bruins couldn’t have developed Senyshyn to be in the same mold.

People also forget the troubles Brett Hull had early on with coaches trying to get him to tighten up his defense, and he worked out OK.