The Athletic - Boston Neely: "We have to be as brutally honest as possible"

[Oates2Neely]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they loaned out Pasta to his junior national team 2 successive years, no?

I don’t recall. Drafted in summer 2014. He was assigned to Providence for 25 games (11 goals/ 28 points) and was called up.

He struggled in his own zone. They needed his offense. He’s adjusted and plays a decent defensive game.

 

[JOKER 192]

Hockey management, maybe even more than any other sport, reminds me of golf. Golf isn't a game designed for you to hit 100% of your shots perfectly. That's not possible. Golf is a game designed for you to control your misses. You set yourself up so if you miss the shot, you still have an angle at the next one.

Having nothing to show in exchange for Tyler Seguin, Reilly Smith, Loui Eriksson, Carl Soderberg, and Torey Krug right now is killer. Even having nothing to show in return for Brett Connolly is an issue. Having only Lauzon to show for Hamilton is a problem. Having only Sean Kuraly to show for dealing Milan Lucic is a problem.

Most of the Bruins problems, asset wise, have extended from either reaching wildly on value (draft picks, Smith for Hayes) or going for it in ill advised times(letting 30 year old UFAs walk in non-playoff seasons). They haven't controlled their misses.



Just in trades, since sending Reilly Smith to Florida for Jimmy Hayes the Bruins have spent the following trying to fill Reilly Smith's spot:

two 1sts
2nd
4th
6th
7th
Ryan Spooner
Matt Beleskey
Ryan Lindgren
David Backes
Axel Andersson


They have Ondrej Kase to show for it.

If one could give an unlimited amount of likes I think you'd be breaking records today.

 

[JOKER 192]

Just wondering, what moves you think cost them what Cup?

Just wondering how you don't see which?

 

[Gee Wally]

Hang on...Barzal was in the 2015 Draft?

Why didn’t we take him then!?!?

 

[HumBucker]

I'm not ready to give up on DeBrusk. Kid scored 27 goals just a season ago in 60-some games. He's still growing. If he matures just a little bit into a consistent 25-30-goal middle six guy, it'd pretty hard to be disappointed.

 

[LouJersey]

People also forget the troubles Brett Hull had early on with coaches trying to get him to tighten up his defense, and he worked out OK.

You can never have enough 200 foot muckers...goal scorers after all, do in fact, grow on trees.

 

[LouJersey]

Or you could just look at the body of work and form a judgement like smart people do instead of getting ready to fire him after and every micro event??? It’s a hard salary cap and impossibly tough decisions are repeatedly required. Get over the trades that haven’t worked out and judge him on the results Christ

447-234-93

13 of 20 play-off series won

finished 1st or 2nd seven times in ten seasons.

3 finals appearances.

Any president in sports that was starting right now would sign for this in a heartbeat.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

People also forget the troubles Brett Hull had early on with coaches trying to get him to tighten up his defense, and he worked out OK.

But I thought only in Boston does that happen?

 

[Deuce17]

447-234-93

13 of 20 play-off series won

finished 1st or 2nd seven times in ten seasons.

3 finals appearances.

Any president in sports that was starting right now would sign for this in a heartbeat.

Ya but he gave up Reilly Smith

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

And what’s wrong with having a purely offensive winger in the lineup? Boston needs a Kessel or Hoffman-type player whose job is to score goals. Pittsburgh won two Stanley Cups with Phil as a winger who was not forced to show defensive prowess. I don’t understand why the Bruins couldn’t have developed Senyshyn to be in the same mold.

Because Senyshyn doesn't have the ability of a Kessel.

And by the way, Hoffman played for Ottawa's AHL team for 4 seasons before making it to the show.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

And yet both were benched in favor of pure garbage, defensively responsible players in the playoffs. To the level where Jeremy "Mr. AHL" Reich played over Kessel and got hit with a penalty to lose a game vs Montreal, if you can recall. Wade "I haven't played in the NHL for years" Redden got in over Krug and it's only because he got hurt that Krug played. Seguin got sat and didn't get in there until Bergeron got a concussion. Lucky for the team that Seguin did play because he lit up Tampa and they won that series because of his contribution.

But sure, elite talent learns at the pro level, except for when they're sat over a silly mistake. You know, like Hamilton was. All while veterans were allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again.

We seem to have gone from development and play in the minors to coaching decisions.

 

[Dr Hook]

Because Senyshyn doesn't have the ability of a Kessel.

And by the way, Hoffman played for Ottawa's AHL team for 4 seasons before making it to the show.

He probably doesn't, but he has size and wheels and a good shot. On a team that is absolutely starved for scoring outside the top line and when JDb decides to show up, it makes zero sense to not have had him up, defensive deficiencies notwithstanding. He was not played in favor of players like Beleskey, Brett Ritchie, Noel Acciari, Nordstrom, Schaller. Not all of them are poor players, but they are fourth line grinders to a man. The team preferred to stick one of those guys on a third line instead of a guy that could actually shoot the puck. Maybe it would not have worked but dammit they should have tried instead of crying about a lack of secondary scoring.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

If Barzal were drafted instead of Senyshyn, Barzal would be mired in Providence logging 4th line minutes with two stiffs and people here would be lamenting them not drafting someone else...

then how do you explain Pastrnak making this team as an 18 year old?

I think there's some validity to criticizing how they've handled Senyshyn's development, but the more likely outcome if they'd drafted Barzal is that he's a core Bruins player today b/c he's several orders of magnitude more talented than Senyshyn.

 

[Deuce17]

He probably doesn't, but he has size and wheels and a good shot. On a team that is absolutely starved for scoring outside the top line and when JDb decides to show up, it makes zero sense to not have had him up, defensive deficiencies notwithstanding. He was not played in favor of players like Beleskey, Brett Ritchie, Noel Acciari, Nordstrom, Schaller. Not all of them are poor players, but they are fourth line grinders to a man. The team preferred to stick one of those guys on a third line instead of a guy that could actually shoot the puck. Maybe it would not have worked but dammit they should have tried instead of crying about a lack of secondary scoring.

It’s mind boggling how no one gets tired of talking about this kid but imo the reason he hasn’t been given a chance is because he’s an awful hockey player. People like to make the claim he ‘looked the part’ in Montreal cause he got a second assist and an empty netter. The reality is there probably 8-10 young guys ahead of him on Providence and the reason they are ahead of him is because they are better than him. I’m not a Seny hater but anyone thinking he would have helped us one tiny bit this last season is basing that on hope alone most likely because we reached significantly to draft him. If he was drafted in the more appropriate 4th round he would never be mentioned here.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He probably doesn't, but he has size and wheels and a good shot. On a team that is absolutely starved for scoring outside the top line and when JDb decides to show up, it makes zero sense to not have had him up, defensive deficiencies notwithstanding. He was not played in favor of players like Beleskey, Brett Ritchie, Noel Acciari, Nordstrom, Schaller. Not all of them are poor players, but they are fourth line grinders to a man. The team preferred to stick one of those guys on a third line instead of a guy that could actually shoot the puck. Maybe it would not have worked but dammit they should have tried instead of crying about a lack of secondary scoring.

Size, wheels and a good shot but he couldn't score in Providence, 33 goals in 174 games.

Maybe he's ready now, but I doubt he was much earlier.

 

[Gordoff]

I'm not ready to give up on DeBrusk. Kid scored 27 goals just a season ago in 60-some games. He's still growing. If he matures just a little bit into a consistent 25-30-goal middle six guy, it'd pretty hard to be disappointed.

Yeah I'm not ready either. Haven't we seen enough of giving up on guys way too soon only to regret it later? The one thing though that may get him traded is if his agent is unreasonable and pushes for top dollar. Any more than $3.5 million is too much at this point in his development. I can see them giving him 2 years @ $3.5 million per.

 

[Smitty93]

Oh no of course not..just to clarify, I'm not calling for his resignation or anything like that. I just want a good hard look in the mirror from everyone in the front office because, IMO, the situation they find themselves in at the moment is a direct result of their collective actions up top(Neely, Sweeney, Bradley, JFJ, etc.). I don't think not beating Tampa in 2018 or 2020 was due to player underperformance, in both cases...the roster that was iced was just not good enough. I think we got incredibly lucky last year that other teams did our dirty work and TB, Pitt, and WSH were eliminated early. Toronto was the best team we faced until the cup finals. The holes they find themselves trying to fill this summer, a top 6 wing and 1 maybe 2 top 4 defenders. The aging core with no real succession plan, all of that is a direct result of not only front office moves, but the front offices inability to learn from mistakes and apply learnings forward.

I don't know how you can have David Backes on your roster and think the John Moore signing was a good idea. I don't know how you can live through the result of the Seguin trade and ship Reilly Smith off for an AHLer. I don't know how you can let Carl Soderberg walk without getting anything for him at the deadline and then do the same thing the following year with Loui. I don't know how you can see that Karson Kuhlman in the top 6 is a problem and then start the year off with Brett Ritchie. The list goes on and on.

The past is the past, you can't change it..but jeesh, learn from it fellas.

But yeah, for me, I'm happy they got one 10 years ago, but unless something changes fast..I feel like we're going to be watching #33 and #37 go to the rafters saying "man...what if." should have.."

I think you're overrating this player group. I think they've won exactly as many as they should have. 0 Cups would have been disappointing and 2+ would have been exceeding expectations. I hate going back and looking at certain games or plays and saying they should have won this year if they had done x, y, z. This is a good group, but they're not a great group. I find it hard to believe they deserved more than 1 Cup. For that reason, I can't be disappointed in them and I can't say "what if". My expectations for them just weren't that high.

It's not even just on the players. There's never been a point where I honestly thought Sweeney and Cassidy were a Cup-winning GM and coach. I just don't consider them to be that good and it's the way I've felt since they were hired. They're good enough to build a good team, but I think that's their limit.

 

[Dr Hook]

Size, wheels and a good shot but he couldn't score in Providence, 33 goals in 174 games.

Maybe he's ready now, but I doubt he was much earlier.

The problem in Providence is that he wasn't played on a scoring line much of the time either. He "needed to learn the two way game." Or that was line we were fed. Look, I have no idea if he could have made a difference, and no one does because it never happened. That is my problem with this whole approach they often take with young players. If he was really awful, then after 15-20 games, adios mofo. Simple as. But it wasn't even tried. Crap they gave Jimmy Hayes more time than that.

 

[Dr Hook]

It’s mind boggling how no one gets tired of talking about this kid but imo the reason he hasn’t been given a chance is because he’s an awful hockey player. People like to make the claim he ‘looked the part’ in Montreal cause he got a second assist and an empty netter. The reality is there probably 8-10 young guys ahead of him on Providence and the reason they are ahead of him is because they are better than him. I’m not a Seny hater but anyone thinking he would have helped us one tiny bit this last season is basing that on hope alone most likely because we reached significantly to draft him. If he was drafted in the more appropriate 4th round he would never be mentioned here.

Mainly I say this because no one really knows how it might have turned out. Chances are it would not have worked. But we'll never know and anyone that claims they do know with certainty is either full of shit or blessed with powers that the average human doesn't possess. It is more emblematic of an organizational approach that it is the specific player, anyway. He is just a perfect example.

 

[Gordoff]

It’s mind boggling how no one gets tired of talking about this kid but imo the reason he hasn’t been given a chance is because he’s an awful hockey player. People like to make the claim he ‘looked the part’ in Montreal cause he got a second assist and an empty netter. The reality is there probably 8-10 young guys ahead of him on Providence and the reason they are ahead of him is because they are better than him. I’m not a Seny hater but anyone thinking he would have helped us one tiny bit this last season is basing that on hope alone most likely because we reached significantly to draft him. If he was drafted in the more appropriate 4th round he would never be mentioned here.

Wow I doubt that there are THAT many ahead of him. If that's so it shows that the scouting staff is woefully pathetic at their jobs. Is he a bust at this point? Instead of signing Lindholm and Brett Ritchie etc they should be looking to give these kids a real shot at the big club. See if they can rise to occasion. They've been down there without fair tryouts for 4 years now. Okay for a couple years but four years is a long time. If Senyshen sucks that badly move him. If not give him a chance.

 

[BTO]

unfortunately their spot in history is the bridesmaids.

20 Finals appearances, only 6 Cups.

6-14 record, pathetic.

What's worse is their record since 1972: 1-7 (1 for 8). If they hadn't have won in 2011 that would have been 0-8.
But had they won in either 2013 or last year I'd have been good for the last decade.

 

[Dr Hook]

What's worse is their record since 1972: 1-7 (1 for 8). If they hadn't have won in 2011 that would have been 0-8.
But had they won in either 2013 or last year I'd have been good for the last decade.

I know it doesn't feel that good- like breaking your leg and being told "at least you didn't dislocate your hip, too"- but we are far better off as fans to be (almost) perpetual bridesmaids, than, say, Leafs fans. Or Wild fans, or a couple dozen other worse off teams.

 

[BTO]

I know it doesn't feel that good- like breaking your leg and being told "at least you didn't dislocate your hip, too"- but we are far better off as fans to be (almost) perpetual bridesmaids, than, say, Leafs fans. Or Wild fans, or a couple dozen other worse off teams.

Well yeah, but it just hurts too damn much to lose in the Final. Best round to lose in is the 2nd. 1st round sux, 3rd round sux because, damn, we could have made the Final. 2nd round is meh. Would be nice to win in the Final more than once in a blue moon tho.

 

[Deuce17]

Wow I doubt that there are THAT many ahead of him. If that's so it shows that the scouting staff is woefully pathetic at their jobs. Is he a bust at this point? Instead of signing Lindholm and Brett Ritchie etc they should be looking to give these kids a real shot at the big club. See if they can rise to occasion. They've been down there without fair tryouts for 4 years now. Okay for a couple years but four years is a long time. If Senyshen sucks that badly move him. If not give him a chance.

Off the top of my head I’d venture to guess the organization holds Lauko, Frederic, Vladar, Zboril, Zech, Vaak, Steen and Studnicka in higher regards than Seny. That’s not even including the college kids Beecher, Olson, Hall, Swayman, Keyser, Ahcan, Wolff etc....do you think if they had the choice that they could either keep Seny or any one of the names mentioned above that they would choose Seny over any single one of those? Also how has he not had ‘fair tryouts’? He’s been at preseason camp every year....there’s your tryout. He hasn’t stuck around cause he’s not good enough period. Imo no one deserves or is entitled to randomly just be called up to the big club because they have been in the minors x number of years. That’s just not how it works or how it should work...earn it. I just don’t understand the endless fascination with this kid. I mean there’s lots of guys who have been in the minors longer than him so should they all get their ‘fair tryouts‘ and be brought up too?

Idk whatever to each their own. We have some of the best hockey players on the planet and one of the very few teams in the upper echelon of the NHL and all anyone can talk about is Zack freaking Senyshen. It’s very simple he isn’t good enough at this point and there’s a good chance he never will be period the end. Would love to be wrong!

 

[Gordoff]

Off the top of my head I’d venture to guess the organization holds Lauko, Frederic, Vladar, Zboril, Zech, Vaak, Steen and Studnicka in higher regards than Seny. That’s not even including the college kids Beecher, Olson, Hall, Swayman, Keyser, Ahcan, Wolff etc....do you think if they had the choice that they could either keep Seny or any one of the names mentioned above that they would choose Seny over any single one of those? Also how has he not had ‘fair tryouts’? He’s been at preseason camp every year....there’s your tryout. He hasn’t stuck around cause he’s not good enough period. Imo no one deserves or is entitled to randomly just be called up to the big club because they have been in the minors x number of years. That’s just not how it works or how it should work...earn it. I just don’t understand the endless fascination with this kid. I mean there’s lots of guys who have been in the minors longer than him so should they all get their ‘fair tryouts‘ and be brought up too?

Idk whatever to each their own. We have some of the best hockey players on the planet and one of the very few teams in the upper echelon of the NHL and all anyone can talk about is Zack freaking Senyshen. It’s very simple he isn’t good enough at this point and there’s a good chance he never will be period the end. Would love to be wrong!

You're right. I didn't look at it that way. I guess we just unresonalbly want or expect a first round pick to work out. That being the case I wonder if there's any value at all in him? Can they get a 4th round pick for him? Is he going to end up in Europe or Russia in a year?
It's sadly abysmal that 2/3s of those picks are iffy. Any idea where Zboril is in that pecking order? Defensemen usually take longer to ripen, he's got the speed and an edgy on-ice attitude from what we're told but is he another bust? Obviously I just don't know. Not to change the subject but I just read that article on Tyler Seguin and was thinking, imagine if we still had him and Blake Wheeler? Oh well.