Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

[Speedy Sanderson]

He may not be a hypocrite, but without the Arena deal there's a very real possibility he doesn't get to enjoy the festivities last weekend. I think that was the original point Sanderson was making.

Yes, that was my point (perhaps I could have stated it better). In any event, I'm not sure what else the Coalition can do as their attempt to get the issue on the ballot was shot down by the Supreme Court (the petition was filed with the wrong city office I believe). I'm sure they'll come up with something as they are all about keeping themselves in the news.

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/06/07/cash-poor-arena.html

My takeaway is Nationwide may fall behind the times in terms of the latest updates, new seats in the upper bowl, etc., but the team is in no danger of moving as a result.

 

[We Want Ten]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/06/07/cash-poor-arena.html

My takeaway is Nationwide may fall behind the times in terms of the latest updates, new seats in the upper bowl, etc., but the team is in no danger of moving as a result.

“It’s not like these things wear out,†Matheson said. “They’re just not nice and fancy as you want, and they don’t generate as much revenue

.â€

So... what's the argument here? NWA is still one of the better facilities in the NHL. Also, if you want casino money, not moving the casino to the ghetto and not building a hotel on site didn't help.

 

[Dr. Fire]

There are very few Arenas, if any, that make money. The vast majority are cash cows. But, arenas do much more for a community, then they take away. They provide things that nothing else can provide. If you look at the big picture, they are assets for any major city. Unless of course you build it in the middle of corn fields, not close to anything, like the long gone Richfield coliseum.

 

[NotWendell]

There are very few Arenas, if any, that make money. The vast majority are cash cows. But, arenas do much more for a community, then they take away. They provide things that nothing else can provide. If you look at the big picture, they are assets for any major city. Unless of course you build it in the middle of corn fields, not close to anything, like the long gone Richfield coliseum.

or the Canadian Tire Centre (not) in Ottawa.

 

[blahblah]

There are very few Arenas, if any, that make money. The vast majority are cash cows. But, arenas do much more for a community, then they take away. They provide things that nothing else can provide. If you look at the big picture, they are assets for any major city. Unless of course you build it in the middle of corn fields, not close to anything, like the long gone Richfield coliseum.

I tend to agree with the first sentence, but you do realize that a "cash cow" is a good thing right? It's a steady stream of income; which is contrary to your first sentence.

 

[Crede777]

I tend to agree with the first sentence, but you do realize that a "cash cow" is a good thing right? It's a steady stream of income; which is contrary to your first sentence.

Same.

Arenas tend to be cash sinkholes which are owned by the community and offer service. It is rare for them to make money and even rarer for them to be privately owned.

 

[Dr. Fire]

I tend to agree with the first sentence, but you do realize that a "cash cow" is a good thing right? It's a steady stream of income; which is contrary to your first sentence.

I meant that the arena itself tends to be a revenue minus. But collaterally a revenue plus. My terminology may have been somewhat confused, as I often am. So money pit would have been better.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Same.

Arenas tend to be cash sinkholes which are owned by the community and offer service. It is rare for them to make money and even rarer for them to be privately owned.

The problem comes back to - the taxpayers turned down the arena, so private money put it up, but when it came time for round 2 of financing those guys didn't want anything to do with it - so they got the county/city involved in taking it over.

At some point the politicians need to get 100% behind it and have a compelling story - they've tried at time to talk about the # of jobs created, etc.

End of the day (and I am a capitalist 100%) but Nationwide (specifically NRI) is making a butt-load (that's a technical term lol) of money off from the real estate. They own all the land, they get primo rents from a lot of bars and restaurants and apartments and sell a lot of $350k-1M condos plus have the city in their back packets to get real estate abatements as needed (for condos and jobs created). So at some point they need to step up, as do the citizens of Columbus, but NRI/Nationwide is making a ton of cash off from the real estate in the District and they will need to step up and take the load.

 

[Viqsi]

The problem comes back to - the taxpayers turned down the arena, so private money put it up, but when it came time for round 2 of financing those guys didn't want anything to do with it - so they got the county/city involved in taking it over.

At some point the politicians need to get 100% behind it and have a compelling story - they've tried at time to talk about the # of jobs created, etc.

End of the day (and I am a capitalist 100%) but Nationwide (specifically NRI) is making a butt-load (that's a technical term lol) of money off from the real estate. They own all the land, they get primo rents from a lot of bars and restaurants and apartments and sell a lot of $350k-1M condos plus have the city in their back packets to get real estate abatements as needed (for condos and jobs created). So at some point they need to step up, as do the citizens of Columbus, but NRI/Nationwide is making a ton of cash off from the real estate in the District and they will need to step up and take the load.

They kind of did part of that already by loaning a goodly portion of the money necessary for the public purchase. No payments made on that loan yet, and yet Nationwide doesn't sound like it's going to foreclose anytime soon.

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

They kind of did part of that already by loaning a goodly portion of the money necessary for the public purchase. No payments made on that loan yet, and yet Nationwide doesn't sound like it's going to foreclose anytime soon.

Yea, can't see Nationwide foreclosing on the centerpiece of its very lucrative office/housing/entertainment district. That's what it may all come down to - if, and when, Nationwide will collect on the outstanding debt. At this point the casino money is only covering the maintenance of the arena, and nothing more.

 

[1857 Howitzer]

Nationwide will never forclose or try to collect. It's my understanding that the loan just rolls to the next month adding to the length of the loan each time a payments missed. Nationwide was never considered with getting money from the sell of the Arena they mostly wanted to get rid of the lease with the Jackets that was going to kill the team while keeping their name on the arena.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

The problem comes back to - the taxpayers turned down the arena, so private money put it up, but when it came time for round 2 of financing those guys didn't want anything to do with it - so they got the county/city involved in taking it over.

Don't forget that Priest and a few select council members tried to push through their CAM group, which would basically take the public money earmarked for the arena and they would be the middle men to distribute it....Basically trying to have their cake (county pays for arena lease) and eat it too (continuing to receive the check and dictate how it's used)

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

I guess legislators want the Convention Authority and the school district to negotiate a bit more before they pass any legislation. By the time they ever figure out the financial side of things with the arena, it will probably be time to build a new one (seems like the shelf life of a modern arena gets shorter and shorter).

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ssing-tax-exemption-for-nationwide-arena.html

 

[theD86]

Well there's this.......

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...rely-in-black-with-tax-bill-debt-looming.html

Nationwide Arena should finish in the black again this year, but disappointing casino-tax receipts that subsidize the publicly owned arena are forcing its operators to dip into a rainy-day fund to pay for capital projects and leaving its debt unpaid.

And its long-term financial picture could get murkier if the state does not restore the arena’s tax abatement that expired this year, potentially adding a $4 million annual tax obligation.

 

[We Want Ten]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...rely-in-black-with-tax-bill-debt-looming.html

In part, that's what they get for putting the Casino on the westside and NOT building a hotel with it. I know there are other Casinos in Ohio, but thats 2 major blunders with the one locally.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

That casino is terrible and is in a bad spot. That shouldn't be surprising that they aren't making money.

 

[JacketsDavid]

The entire Casino - Arena thing was strictly political BS.
Nationwide was politically against it, because they wouldn't make any money off from it, but they had no problem at all with NRI (Nationwide Realty Investments who built the arena and area) bidding on the Pittsburgh arena which was strategically located next to a casino.

But notice as soon as the casino decided to move out west who swooped in and bought the land - NRI.

I have no doubt if the Casino would have included Nationwide in their deal they would have been all for it, instead they wanted to protect their "family friendly" arena district.

 

[Viqsi]

The entire Casino - Arena thing was strictly political BS.
Nationwide was politically against it, because they wouldn't make any money off from it, but they had no problem at all with NRI (Nationwide Realty Investments who built the arena and area) bidding on the Pittsburgh arena which was strategically located next to a casino.

But notice as soon as the casino decided to move out west who swooped in and bought the land - NRI.

I have no doubt if the Casino would have included Nationwide in their deal they would have been all for it, instead they wanted to protect their "family friendly" arena district.

I rather suspect that a lack of customers there might have some more to do with it being located in a city that routinely voted against any casinos being here for years and years and years, and then had one imposed on it because of votes from out of town.

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

I've heard that some people avoid the Cleveland casino because the minimum bets are too high. Does the Columbus casino have that problem?

 

[We Want Ten]

I've heard that some people avoid the Cleveland casino because the minimum bets are too high. Does the Columbus casino have that problem?

Yes.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

The table minimums are way too high and they don't have enough staff/demand to open the second area of tables on Friday nights. It's sad really

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I rather suspect that a lack of customers there might have some more to do with it being located in a city that routinely voted against any casinos being here for years and years and years, and then had one imposed on it because of votes from out of town.

I believe there is truth to this.

But I also think local politicians and business leaders, once the decision was made, could have made a better environment for all stakeholders. They didn't. They set it up to fail all the while pitching it as an economic boon for the West Side when all they were doing was dumping it as far from their toys as they reasonably could.

 

[Viqsi]

I believe there is truth to this.

But I also think local politicians and business leaders, once the decision was made, could have made a better environment for all stakeholders. They didn't. They set it up to fail all the while pitching it as an economic boon for the West Side when all they were doing was dumping it as far from their toys as they reasonably could.

Quite possibly. And normally that's kind of a petty thing to do, but admittedly if it were me in charge I probably would have done the same. "We never wanted you, so you get exiled to the borderlands."

 

[Forepar]

Nimby