93gilmour93
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2010
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HahaSo in a nutshell, Eichel doesn’t make the players around him better.
That’s gonna be a minus from me dawg.
HahaSo in a nutshell, Eichel doesn’t make the players around him better.
That’s gonna be a minus from me dawg.
And he played hurt a lot recently, his point totals have taken noticeable significant hits right after he’s been injured but the Sabres kept running him out there. (Which is real questionable to me.) It happened last season and it happened pretty much all this season. He played all 21 games hampered injury this season and it got worse with multiple injuries as it went on. No wonder he thinks the team has zero interest in his physical well-being. He’s scored a ton in first half of 2019-20 before his upper-body injury. Whether Buffalo or another team will actually get a fully healthy Eichel anytime soon is a different question.This is tough because I think Eichel is better than his point totals suggest, due to his lack of supporting cast.
McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Draisaitl, Barkov.
I'm not even sure if he's behind four of those players. I am sure, though, that Buffalo is a morale-sapping trainwreck.
Eichel's output relative to his teammates is absurd. McDavid and Draisaitl* are the only players that I can think of offhand who are comparable in that regard.
* Yes, I am aware they are teammates. Treat them as a set.
He can't hold Draisaitls jockstrap.McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby. Eichel is fourth on my list.
He can't hold Draisaitls jockstrap.
Here's a question. All hypothetical.
Let's say Eichel goes to the Rangers like rumored.
He plays a full season with Panarin-Eichel-Buch(maybe Rangers fans can chime in if those wouldn't be his linemates)
What does he finish at for point totals?
I'm hearing he has no support in Buffalo so I'm curious where people think he lands in a full season with that line.
McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby. Eichel is fourth on my list.
I responded to a poster who offered to let me cherry pick any statistic that I wanted and compare it to the players he mentioned.These are very good numbers, no doubt.
However, they are 1) a bit misleading and 2) skirting around the other issues people have brought up, since not a single person said Eichel wasn't an extremely gifted offensive player.
1) Yes he outscored the next highest teammates on his team. However (and you are picking 1 single year to do this for, for some reason) they weren't the "worst" offensive team in the league. They were the 6th worst. Eichel was on a team that scored more goals than Barzal's NYI. ES ppg Eichel was .74 and Barzal was .71. Now let's do this year: Eichel's BUF is STILL outscoring Barzal's NYI. Eichel ES PPG- .43, Barzal- .67 That said: Eichel is a better offensive player than Barzal. When healthy he most likely will put up more pts than Barzal (especially since Barzal is playing on a team with far tighter defensive systems that require more D commitment... I mean if you are going to throw Eichel's poor coaching in as an excuse, then you also have to include that while Trotz is a great coach, his numbers will absolutely deflate pure scoring).
2) Speaking of Defense- The knock on Eichel isn't that he's not a great point producer. He is. The question, and it's been there since before BU (I live in the Merrimack Valley and have heard about Eichel since he was pretty young) is whether he's a "winning" player. Now I tend to poo poo those kinds of criticisms because a lot of it is totally team dependent... but Eichel does have an "attitude" or "ego" that does affect how he plays. He plays "Hard" but he doesn't play disciplined or smart and that shows up in the defensive numbers.
Looking at last season, since you want to cherry pick that one.... and since you are very hung up with comparing Eichel's numbers with the Fs on his own team.. here are the F's on BUF last year who had a lower Goals Aganist/60 than Eichel:
Michael Frolik
Jimmy Vesey
Johann Larson
Kyle Okposo
Zemgus Girgensons
Vlad Sobotka
Victor Olofsson
Casey Mittelstadt
Eichel was deadsmack in the middle... meaning on a really bad team, he was mediocre in stopping goals. Of course, that's even worse when you consider that he's facing other team's best defensive players, trying to stop him from scoring, while opposing teams are saving their scoring lines for BUF's weak (as you admit) rest of the roster.
And with all his outscoring his teammates....by far as you know... he was 6th amongst Fs on his team in xGF%. Yup... gets lots of points and very talented. But not even close to Barkov as far as defensive play goes.
P.S. In 19-20 according to NaturalStatTrick, Barkov posted 47.79 xG% and 2.94 xGA/60. Eichel posted 48.29 xG% and 2.77 xGA/60. #defenceThese are very good numbers, no doubt.
However, they are 1) a bit misleading and 2) skirting around the other issues people have brought up, since not a single person said Eichel wasn't an extremely gifted offensive player.
1) Yes he outscored the next highest teammates on his team. However (and you are picking 1 single year to do this for, for some reason) they weren't the "worst" offensive team in the league. They were the 6th worst. Eichel was on a team that scored more goals than Barzal's NYI. ES ppg Eichel was .74 and Barzal was .71. Now let's do this year: Eichel's BUF is STILL outscoring Barzal's NYI. Eichel ES PPG- .43, Barzal- .67 That said: Eichel is a better offensive player than Barzal. When healthy he most likely will put up more pts than Barzal (especially since Barzal is playing on a team with far tighter defensive systems that require more D commitment... I mean if you are going to throw Eichel's poor coaching in as an excuse, then you also have to include that while Trotz is a great coach, his numbers will absolutely deflate pure scoring).
2) Speaking of Defense- The knock on Eichel isn't that he's not a great point producer. He is. The question, and it's been there since before BU (I live in the Merrimack Valley and have heard about Eichel since he was pretty young) is whether he's a "winning" player. Now I tend to poo poo those kinds of criticisms because a lot of it is totally team dependent... but Eichel does have an "attitude" or "ego" that does affect how he plays. He plays "Hard" but he doesn't play disciplined or smart and that shows up in the defensive numbers.
Looking at last season, since you want to cherry pick that one.... and since you are very hung up with comparing Eichel's numbers with the Fs on his own team.. here are the F's on BUF last year who had a lower Goals Aganist/60 than Eichel:
Michael Frolik
Jimmy Vesey
Johann Larson
Kyle Okposo
Zemgus Girgensons
Vlad Sobotka
Victor Olofsson
Casey Mittelstadt
Eichel was deadsmack in the middle... meaning on a really bad team, he was mediocre in stopping goals. Of course, that's even worse when you consider that he's facing other team's best defensive players, trying to stop him from scoring, while opposing teams are saving their scoring lines for BUF's weak (as you admit) rest of the roster.
And with all his outscoring his teammates....by far as you know... he was 6th amongst Fs on his team in xGF%. Yup... gets lots of points and very talented. But not even close to Barkov as far as defensive play goes.
I think it's safe to say that Eichel's all-around problem is the Buffalo Sabres franchise owned by the Pegula family. It's a good thing to be competitive and not numb to losing.
Placing Suzuki above Eichel is one of the stupider things I've read this past month.
Interesting how that’s the standard for Buffalo but not Edmonton.
Are you serious? Sid is among the greatest playoff performers in the history. He's the definition of winning hockey.
Who do you think is carried the Penguins on his back all season long and got them 1st place in the MassMutual East? Santa Claus?
I feel he has much higher scoring ability. Barkov's two way play is superior but Jack can get there a lot easier than Barkov can have his offensive skill. And bear in mind Eichel plays for the Sabres. He doesn't have Barkovs surrounding cast
Jonathan Huberdeau and Aaron Ekblad are such anchors too. And Hoffman, Jagr, Marchessault, Dadonov... Barkov is an elite player but it’s not like he’s played with trash cans or that Eichel of all players has had better line-mates through his career.
Yes I do, but do you mean that Barkov doesnt have a good surrounding cast there?& lastly you know Barkov plays for Florida?
Yes I do, but do you mean that Barkov doesnt have a good surrounding cast there?
It's still a case where his best production is happening when the team is at it's best. Its hard to objectively compare players when they play under such different circumstances. Barkov doesn't play with the biggest names but that's not as important as the whole team clicking and succeeding.Well I just missed my edit but honestly not really.
Ekblad missed half the season.
Hubs was on the 2nd line.
Vatrano, Denisenko, Verhaeghe, Hornqvist, Tippett, Marchment, Duclair were his linemates while going against the best.
One could argue he had the worst linemates out of these superstar forwards and put up 58 in 50.
& Barkov put up 96 points in a season before.
Let’s not act like all of a sudden Florida has been seen as a contender throughout Barkovs career
It's still a case where his best production is happening when the team is at it's best. Its hard to objectively compare players when they play under such different circumstances. Barkov doesn't play with the biggest names but that's not as important as the whole team clicking and succeeding.
So yes, one can say Barkov or O'Reilly are better, sure, but all you need to argue to say Eichel is better is that he has shown incredible skill and production even on a bad team, which is a handicap. If then you wanted to argue that maybe Eichel is responsible for his team's issues, go ahead. But it is all opinion. None more valid than others
2018-2019 Aho scored 83 points in 82 games vs Eichel 82 points in 77 games.When you say "recency bias" pertaining to Sebastian Aho and Brayden Point, you might actually referring to "their whole NHL careers."
Aho has outscored Eichel in terms of most goals per season, highest point totals, a climbing PPG average propelling sustained regular season success on a mid 2010s rebuild team that has turned into a true contender, a very good playoff track record, more career goals and closing in on career point totals.
Brayden Point has delivered a Stanley Cup as a first line center and a Conn Smythe caliber run, produced a 41 goal season and 92 point career high and 50 more playoff points.
A lot of time has passed since that 2015 draft.
over 100 points, misses playoffs and the coach gets firedHere's a question. All hypothetical.
Let's say Eichel goes to the Rangers like rumored.
He plays a full season with Panarin-Eichel-Buch(maybe Rangers fans can chime in if those wouldn't be his linemates)
What does he finish at for point totals?
I'm hearing he has no support in Buffalo so I'm curious where people think he lands in a full season with that line.