Player Discussion Nail Yakupov Talk II - Say something, I'm giving up on you....

[Tarus]

I was listening to the canucks post game show. They were talking about guys checking out.

They said watching the oilers morning skate. One guy stood out big time.

Yakupov. They said an assistant coach came by and yelled at him "do it right or get off of the ice"

They said after that he was still half out of it and smiling while finishing....

I'm not surprised. You can tell he's not fully engaged in games anymore, a lot of straight legged, upright defensive play that lacks skating and intensity since the deadline. It's something I've never seen from him in the prior seasons either, even when things were at their worst with Eakins around.

He's had a rough ride in Edmonton though; the Eakins debacle and now another coaching staff he can't get traction with, the lack of quality centers to play with, the lack of an organizational push that might indicate he was an important player for the future of the franchise, the media guys who viewed him as a mistake from the get-go etc. I suspect he actually asked for a trade out at the deadline, and was probably disappointed that nothing happened, and is now just waiting for the season to end at this point so he can maybe move on and try to salvage his career.

 

[Senor Catface]

[/B]

1. Pure speculation. It's easy to keep org decisions secrete if you threaten to fire people if it gets out. But I'll agree with @Fourier that if it was Katz then the scouts are cleared. Only those closest to the inside circle will ever know that and to say one way or the other is also pure speculation.

Back to the consensus thing, 2. I don't see how jumping off the bridge because everyone else is doing it somehow clears management. Only in sports is it somehow acceptable to fail. Especially in Edmonton. Pathetic.

1. No, it's not speculation. Several pre-draft publications speak to scouts around the league, just unanimously. It's in print what professional scouts around the league thought.

2. It's not about "clearing management" it's about the reality that most teams would have picked the same player we would have. If the team is making the same choice as other teams would have made, it's not a management issue. It's really simple stuff.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Really? What part about just b/c everyone else is jumping off the bridge doesn't mean you should don't u understand? I get that he was consensus, why is it still ok to make a mistake just b/c a bunch of other idiots agree with you?

 

[Ninety7]

Really? What part about just b/c everyone else is jumping off the bridge doesn't mean you should don't u understand? I get that he was consensus, why is it still ok to make a mistake just b/c a bunch of other idiots agree with you?

Yes because drafting yakupov first overall in 2012 when he was on everyone's list to go number 1 is equivilant to jumping off a bridge. One is quite obviously a poor choice... The other WAS a good choice.

Do you know what hindsight is?

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Yes because drafting yakupov first overall in 2012 when he was on everyone's list to go number 1 is equivilant to jumping off a bridge. One is quite obviously a poor choice... The other WAS a good choice.

Do you know what hindsight is?

Yep, hindsight is 20 20. We pay nhl scouts big bucks b/c supposedly they know what's up. They are paid to make predictions, a lot or other teams get it right, what's our excuse? "well, turns out we took a player who should have been ranked 100 overall 1st overall, sorry our mistake!"

 

[Ninety7]

Yep, hindsight is 20 20. We pay nhl scouts big bucks b/c supposedly they know what's up. They are paid to make predictions, a lot or other teams get it right, what's our excuse? "well, turns out we took a player who should have been ranked 100 overall 1st overall, sorry our mistake!"

He was ranked number 1 in the world AT THE TIME by pretty much every scout and other team. I don't know how to make it clearer for you. Sorry that you think people should be reprimanded for things out of their control.

 

[Raoul Duke]

It's been reported by no less than Bob Mckenzie that the scouts didn't want Yakupov first overall. The call was made above the scouts.

 

[Draiskull]

It's been reported by no less than Bob Mckenzie that the scouts didn't want Yakupov first overall. The call was made above the scouts.

what about the other half of that report... scouts wanted Oilers to pick Reinhart 1st overall

 

[Raoul Duke]

what about the other half of that report... scouts wanted Oilers to pick Reinhart 1st overall

I don't recall that being the case at all. I could be wrong, of course, but I think I would remember that.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I don't recall that being the case at all. I could be wrong, of course, but I think I would remember that.

In fact, it took about 10 seconds to find the tweet that says: the decision to take Yak over Murray was made from above.
Murray.

 

[Philly85*]

He also had 7 points in 12 games in February playing on average about 13 minutes a game. Production wise it was not such a brutal stretch for a rookie.

At no point in his rookie year did he look like he belonged in the AHL offensively. Cleary he needed to learn how to play away from the puck but even then he finished at only -4 so it's not like he was bleeding goals at ES.

If Yak's production was on pace from his rookie year then for a winger at $2.5M I doubt anyone would have a lot of issue with value. But it is no where near what he did at that point in his career.

thanks, the sheer nonsense that person was spewing needed to be addressed

 

[JJTopper]

I don't recall that being the case at all. I could be wrong, of course, but I think I would remember that.

I remember Reinhart rumors popping up on draft day (someone from TSN floated it I think?). They were REALLY high the kid. Not sure if they were considering taking him 1st overall or trading down though. Little fuzzy on that bit. It was a weird draft to say the least.

 

[I am the Liquor]

It's been reported by no less than Bob Mckenzie that the scouts didn't want Yakupov first overall. The call was made above the scouts.

Their choice was Murray. Another swing and a miss.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Their choice was Murray. Another swing and a miss.

Is it?
His stats don't look too bad for a young D. I haven't seen much of him. Who would have been a good pick in that spot, realistically, at the time?
I think I'd rather have Murray than Yak at this point.

 

[JarvisFunk]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

This list leaves an awful lot to be desired. Not too mention that outside of Rielly and Gostisbehere, every D-man you named would probably have to exceed expectations to reach the status you seem to think they will.

 

[Throttlehead]

Is it?
His stats don't look too bad for a young D. I haven't seen much of him. Who would have been a good pick in that spot, realistically, at the time?
I think I'd rather have Murray than Yak at this point.

Its exactly who we should have drafted, we needed dmen way worse than smaller wingers at that point. Some of the scouting reports also said Yakupov had to work on using his teammates better, I guess we know what they meant now. Murray would be very welcome to our lineup at this point.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Is it?
His stats don't look too bad for a young D. I haven't seen much of him. Who would have been a good pick in that spot, realistically, at the time?
I think I'd rather have Murray than Yak at this point.

Both would be gaffes of the highest order. Murray is a band aid and Yak has been ruined by Curly McStooge's coaching protege. I guess at the end of the day it probably never mattered who was picked, the deck was stacked against them with the worst management and ownership situation in pro sports.

 

[Throttlehead]

Both would be gaffes of the highest order. Murray is a band aid and Yak has been ruined by Curly McStooge's coaching protege. I guess at the end of the day it probably never mattered who was picked, the deck was stacked against them with the worst management and ownership situation in pro sports.

There is nothing wrong with Ryan Murray's game, not sure why you call picking him a gaffe. He is exactly what we needed and need.

 

[Replacement*]

There is nothing wrong with Ryan Murray's game, not sure why you call picking him a gaffe. He is exactly what we needed and need.

But you can't really look at a D out there that was drafted by another club, and developed differently with another club and go "hey that's exactly what we needed' because its quite likely that had we picked that player we would have burned him out by now by placing him perennially in situations way over his head where he has to punch over his weight in D pairing assignment.

The converse of this is Yak would have been in likelihood a better player somewhere else. No worse than a Galchenyuk.

 

[GMofOilers]

But you can't really look at a D out there that was drafted by another club, and developed differently with another club and go "hey that's exactly what we needed' because its quite likely that had we picked that player we would have burned him out by now by placing him perennially in situations way over his head where he has to punch over his weight in D pairing assignment.

The converse of this is Yak would have been in likelihood a better player somewhere else. No worse than a Galchenyuk.

I guess im not on the train of thought. We have developed wingers, centers and dmen while Yak was here.

Our development isnt as bad as people think, its our drafting that is.

That being said, Yak was 1st overall and should of been all day long. He was the best player in his age group and it wasnt even close. Those skills usually translate to the NHL.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

He was ranked number 1 in the world AT THE TIME by pretty much every scout and other team. I don't know how to make it clearer for you. Sorry that you think people should be reprimanded for things out of their control.

So you're saying that b/c most scouting services had him ranked 1st overall that the oilers had no choice but bend to the will of the almighty red line report? You do realize that oilers employ a massive team of scouts that are paid handsomely to make sure this type of thing doesn't occur. It was 100% an oilers decision no one forced them to make it. It was also 100% the wrong decision that cost this franchise dearly. Again, only in Edmonton is this level of failure acceptable.

Also you have no idea where other teams had him. They don't release that info.

 

[Replacement*]

I guess im not on the train of thought. We have developed wingers, centers and dmen while Yak was here.

Our development isnt as bad as people think, its our drafting that is.

That being said, Yak was 1st overall and should of been all day long. He was the best player in his age group and it wasnt even close. Those skills usually translate to the NHL.

Our development isn't bad? Why do our players chronically regress here?

Eberle has 41pts. His worst total and worst ppg in years.

Nuge, even with 3 goals in last 2gp has a paltry 11 on the season. With two of those goals being cases of misattribution.

Even Hall, who I feel has done a lot here is 20pts shy from where he was a couple years ago.

On to Yak who is cut adrift in space.


Who really succeeds here developmentally? Which core offensive players here improve?

Those should be easy answers. But they're not.


At best players stagnate here. Usually they regress. That's why a Yak or anybody would probably be doing better in a better environment.

I have little doubt Yak would be a perennial 20 goal scorer by now on an NHL team that gives him appropriate topsix toi.

 

[Ninety7]

So you're saying that b/c most scouting services had him ranked 1st overall that the oilers had no choice but bend to the will of the almighty red line report? You do realize that oilers employ a massive team of scouts that are paid handsomely to make sure this type of thing doesn't occur. It was 100% an oilers decision no one forced them to make it. It was also 100% the wrong decision that cost this franchise dearly. Again, only in Edmonton is this level of failure acceptable.

Also you have no idea where other teams had him. They don't release that info.

Dude that was arguably the best pick at the time of the draft. The only player that should have been considered over yakupov at that time was ryan Murray, and even he hasn't been too bright. Come on man, you're being unreasonable. No one could have predicted the way things turned out. Sounds like you are looking for a fortune teller, not a scout.

For example, Jack Eichel could be better than McDavid when it's all said and done, but the right pick was made at the right time. McDavid could go on to not score a single point in his career, but everyone and their dog would have made that pick, simply because he was the best player AT THE TIME.

 

[GMofOilers]

Our development isn't bad? Why do our players chronically regress here?

Eberle has 41pts. His worst total and worst ppg in years.

Nuge, even with 3 goals in last 2gp has a paltry 11 on the season. With two of those goals being cases of misattribution.

Even Hall, who I feel has done a lot here is 20pts shy from where he was a couple years ago.

On to Yak who is cut adrift in space.


Who really succeeds here developmentally? Which core offensive players here improve?

Those should be easy answers. But they're not.


At best players stagnate here. Usually they regress. That's why a Yak or anybody would probably be doing better in a better environment.

I have little doubt Yak would be a perennial 20 goal scorer by now on an NHL team that gives him appropriate topsix toi.

Well points aside this year, they are being way smarter with the puck 90% of the time. Look at even pts/60 and its pretty clear they arent regressing as much as you think. Its the PP that regressed this year.

TM has them fine tuning their game. We have had 14 dmen play this year, and thats a recipe for disaster, but its not been as bad as it used to be. We used to roll over to bigger stronger teams, this year we are sticking up for each other.

We are improving with TM and we are going to continue to improve with him.

 

[Replacement*]

Well points aside this year, they are being way smarter with the puck 90% of the time. Look at even pts/60 and its pretty clear they arent regressing as much as you think. Its the PP that regressed this year.

TM has them fine tuning their game. We have had 14 dmen play this year, and thats a recipe for disaster, but its not been as bad as it used to be. We used to roll over to bigger stronger teams, this year we are sticking up for each other.

We are improving with TM and we are going to continue to improve with him.

We're not improving due to coaching and it has nothing to do with it. We're improving because we have better players like McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Gryba, Maroon, Kass, etc playing in the lineup and most importantly with Talbot in net.

That's been the nature of improvement. The coaching contribution has been underwhelming.

What players have improved due to the coaching staff here? Keeping in mind Talbot himself credits his past coaching staff in NY, who he contacted, for his improvement this season.