Player Discussion Nail Yakupov Talk II - Say something, I'm giving up on you....

[McGoMcD]

I won't miss him, but I hope the best for him. Lets be real here. If a player is really good, he will make a play or tow a game and you see glimpses of what he can do.

He is just not a smart hockey player. I wish he was our sniper. Never hated the guy.

There is no room to put the hate on for Yaks. He works hard, is probably a great team guy. The thing is he just has no hockey IQ. Furthermore he isn't that talented. His hands just aren't that soft, he just loses the puck way to much.

I would be more than happy to keep him. The thing is the expectations just have to come down.

 

[ZJuice]

Keep Nail until he asks for too much money, or starts actually hurting the team with his play

 

[K1984]

Keep Nail until he asks for too much money, or starts actually hurting the team with his play

So you're saying it's time to get rid of him?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Actually, I think the only thing the Oilers really did wrong in developing Yak was hire Eakins.

1. He was the clear top choice in a weak draft. They could have traded the pick, but there was nobody else they really could have chosen except Murray (and he hasn't exactly lit it up either).

2. 1st OA picks rarely get sent back to junior. There was also the possibility of him going to the KHL if he wasn't given a shot to make the senior squad.

3. Aside from a handful of games, Yak has never really forced his way into the top 6. Things might have been different had Ralph not gotten canned, but some of this is on Yak as well.

4. From a few different accounts, it seems like no team has really offered up anything of value for Yak.

I like the kid and was hoping he would break out this year, but he's clearly a bust at this point.

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

 

[gqmixmaster]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

Yak should be in the AHL - that's how much of a bust he is

 

[JA]

Yakupov is a lost player that will not be on the team next year. The oilers managed to ruin yet another promising looking player before he ever had a good chance in this league. Enjoy these last 10 games or so because he will be gone in the off season.

Nail looked good in his rookie season, but now he looks like he doesn't pay attention to what happens on the ice. Late in tonight's game, he threw a puck to a teammate in the left corner of the Avalanche zone; I expected him to go into the slot and prepare for a one-timer. When his linemate threw the puck back towards him, Nail had his head turned and was nonchalantly drifting over to the right side of the zone.

An Avalanche player intercepted the puck and the play went the other way.

The kid's heart isn't there. He needs proper guidance; the Oilers haven't provided that for him. The Eakins regime ruined Nail's confidence and killed his creativity; he has since lost his determination. He hasn't learned how to be effective. It's been downhill for him ever since he turned 20.

Sven Baertschi is doing very well in Vancouver. He has had an opportunity to learn other elements of the game and regain his confidence. He has been placed in a situation all season to thrive. Sven has turned his game around and is on the right path. Yakupov needs extra attention paid to him by his coach; at this point, he is a reclamation project. Unless something changes, he won't improve. At this point, he is like a troubled youth who doesn't know what to do. He needs a teacher -- somebody who is patient enough to help him with his game. He possesses a ton of talent right now but is poorly trained to be the player that he can be.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Nail looked good in his rookie season, but now he looks like he doesn't pay attention to what happens on the ice. Late in tonight's game, he threw a puck to a teammate in the left corner of the Avalanche zone; I expected him to go into the slot and prepare for a one-timer. When his linemate threw the puck back towards him, Nail had his head turned and was drifting over to the right side of the zone.

An Avalanche player intercepted the puck and the play went the other way.

The kid's heart isn't there. He needs proper guidance; the Oilers haven't provided that for him. The Eakins regime ruined Nail's confidence and killed his creativity; he has since lost his determination. He hasn't learned how to be effective. It's been downhill for him ever since he turned 20.

Sven Baertschi is doing very well in Vancouver. He has had an opportunity to learn other elements of the game and regain his confidence. He has been placed in a situation all season to thrive. Sven has turned his game around and is on the right path. Yakupov needs extra attention paid to him by his coach; at this point, he is a reclamation project. Unless something changes, he won't improve.

that's a myth mostly, he did not look good in his rookie season, he was subpar for most of it, a good first week and played decent down the stretch in the final 2 weeks of the season which inflated his numbers just a tad. the large part in between, he wasn't very good his rookie year.

 

[JA]

that's a myth mostly, he did not look good in his rookie season, he was subpar for most of it, but played decent down the stretch in the final 2 weeks of the season which inflated his numbers just a tad.

I thought he looked good in his rookie year. He lacked chemistry with Ales Hemsky, if I recall, but he looked so much more poised with the puck and played with a bit of an edge. He was aggressive, took many shots, and showed some flare in his game. I've had a chance to watch him numerous times lately, and he looks uninspired. I watched most Oilers games that season. I don't see the same enthusiasm anymore that gave him that extra jump in his step or the desire to wire a puck at the net. He lacks the offensive presence that he had; he used to always look for one-timers and was an underrated passer too (although his passes were always too hard for others to handle).

His game is a mess right now. He doesn't get open; he doesn't communicate with his teammates; he has no sense of authority with the puck anymore. He over-handles the puck, and has no control over the situation. He's a little bit like a headless chicken out there these days. I don't feel like there is any threat when he has the puck.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I thought he looked good in his rookie year. He lacked chemistry with Ales Hemsky, if I recall, but he looked so much more poised with the puck and played with a bit of an edge.

he was a 19 year old rookie and people tend to excuse the poor play as just part of the learning curve, write it off and forget it.

but for 2 months Feb/March, it was just a brutal stretch of hockey. I remember saying to myself, this guy needs at least a year, maybe 2, in the AHL. This is not going to be pretty.

That's what happens when you run your organization like a corner store Mom and Pop operation and allow kids a voice at the draft table.

 

[JA]

he was a 19 year old rookie and people tend to excuse the poor play as just part of the learning curve, write it off and forget it.

but for 2 months Feb/March, it was just a brutal stretch of hockey. I remember saying to myself, this guy needs at least a year, maybe 2, in the AHL. This is not going to be pretty.

That's what happens when you run your organization like a corner store Mom and Pop operation and allow kids a voice at the draft table.

Nail was indeed a rookie and he was rather raw, but he was a rather different player in his rookie year than he is now. There's no question that these past few years have reshaped him into something less desirable.

The team either needs to address his development or send him to another team that believes it can help him. At least you'll get something back before he furthers his descent.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

I must have missed it when Matt Dumba eclipsed Ryan Suter as the Wild's #1 defenceman

I agree with your point though, that there are a great deal of players that have panned out and will have great careers.

However, let's all be honest. It came down to Ryan Murray and Nail Yakupov. None of those other names were even in the discussion. Maybe Galchenyuk, but was obviously seen as a massive risk.

Would Ryan Murray have developed the same in Edmonton? Maybe.
Ideally we should have traded down to 5-9 for a defenceman, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Nail was indeed a rookie and he was rather raw, but he was a rather different player in his rookie year than he is now. There's no question that these past few years have reshaped him into something less desirable.

The team either needs to address his development or send him to another team that believes it can help him. At least you'll get something back before he furthers his descent.

absolutely. And if Nail doesn't himself demand it at the exit interviews at the conclusion of this season, then there's something not quite right with his thought process.

 

[Replacement*]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

Not sure if people compile a list like this thinking that hey, If I just name a ******** of players nobodies going to think about it too much and just assume that so many players are better than Yak. That forward list is generally pretty atrocious and the reality is if the Oil picked any of those forwards INSTEAD of Yak people would be swearing Steve Kelly.

I guess its great and all to make back seat analysis years after the pack combing through a draft list of later pick improbability while engaging in selective revision.

That said the argument that there were better, more valuable D is reasonable. But to extend to forwards is weak. Galcheynyuk is also not the Habs top goal scorer and really the only diff between him and Yak is where they slot in. A lot is based on whether a team gives a young player carte blanche or not and resolutely believes in him. Galchenyuk overall plays a pretty weak game leaving me wanting more. People wanting this guy instead is simply a case of gas is greener. Things are sure rosy in Montreal.

 

[Fourier]

he was a 19 year old rookie and people tend to excuse the poor play as just part of the learning curve, write it off and forget it.

but for 2 months Feb/March, it was just a brutal stretch of hockey. I remember saying to myself, this guy needs at least a year, maybe 2, in the AHL. This is not going to be pretty.

That's what happens when you run your organization like a corner store Mom and Pop operation and allow kids a voice at the draft table.

He also had 7 points in 12 games in February playing on average about 13 minutes a game. Production wise it was not such a brutal stretch for a rookie.

At no point in his rookie year did he look like he belonged in the AHL offensively. Cleary he needed to learn how to play away from the puck but even then he finished at only -4 so it's not like he was bleeding goals at ES.

If Yak's production was on pace from his rookie year then for a winger at $2.5M I doubt anyone would have a lot of issue with value. But it is no where near what he did at that point in his career.

 

[Fourier]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

It is completely wrong to suggest that any of these players, with the possible exception of Murray or Galchenyuk, had any chance of being picked at #1 regardless of which team would have made the pick.

I think you are also stretching things by calling some of these players "great" at this time in their careers. Particularly your forwards.

Yak is almost surely done in Edmonton but he was still the right pick at the time.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Can you blame him. He was the consensus 1st OA pick and he's never been given a real shot for an extended period of time in Edmonton.

No you can't blame him.
You can't blame him for anything.
Ever.

 

[Aerrol]

Nail was indeed a rookie and he was rather raw, but he was a rather different player in his rookie year than he is now. There's no question that these past few years have reshaped him into something less desirable.

The team either needs to address his development or send him to another team that believes it can help him. At least you'll get something back before he furthers his descent.

I agree with this completely. I still prefer the former to the latter simply because I want him to succeed with us so badly and don't think we'll get any value worth mentioning at this point in a trade... but this org has consistently demonstrated a complete inability to assist in the development of its players. It's always succeed in spite of the team's support, not because of it. Our recent success with AHL defencemen is a nice step forward, but I want to see a full season of success to declare that we've finally turned the corner on development.

What a ****ing travesty this organization has been for young talent. That's the worst part of all the losing for me - watching us destroy promising careers for years.

If we're going to trade Nail, I hope we actually do him a solid and send him to a good org, instead of just dumping him for whatever. Gagner going to Phoenix was not a good fit, but at least he seems to be doing alright in Philly. Schultz seems to already have turned it around with Pittsburgh. We'll see if he maintains, but ffs he scored on a one timer the other night. Why the hell couldn't we get him to do that? EVER? I doubt it's solely because the guy refused to try.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's never Yakupov's fault.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

People talk about consensus as if it somehow abductes the oilers scouts. Just because everyone was picking him doesnt mean the oilers didn't totally **** the bed here. And the fact that everyone associated in that decision making process hasn't been canned tells me all I need to know about this apparent changing of the guard in terms of Edmonton's management group.

 

[Ninety7]

People talk about consensus as if it somehow abductes the oilers scouts. Just because everyone was picking him doesnt mean the oilers didn't totally **** the bed here. And the fact that everyone associated in that decision making process hasn't been canned tells me all I need to know about this apparent changing of the guard in terms of Edmonton's management group.

so essentially you want to fire everyone who couldn't see the future at the time... Right....

That's just unreasonable, people made a good decision based on the info they had at the time. Can't fault anyone for that...

 

[Fourier]

People talk about consensus as if it somehow abductes the oilers scouts. Just because everyone was picking him doesnt mean the oilers didn't totally **** the bed here. And the fact that everyone associated in that decision making process hasn't been canned tells me all I need to know about this apparent changing of the guard in terms of Edmonton's management group.

My guess is that at least 25 teams would have picked Yakupov. Should they all have been fired. Ironically enough, if rumors are true, the Yak decision was made by Katz so the Oilers scouts may have been one of the 5 teams above.

Yak's time here is just about done but there is an awful lot of revisionist history going on here.

 

[Senor Catface]

What!?! weak draft?

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?round=1&year=2012

It was a deep draft,it was a draft where smart teams
selected defensemen,not forwards

today:
Murray (2nd),Blue Jackets #1 Defenseman
Rielly (5th),Maple Leafs #1 Defenseman
Lindholm (6th),Ducks #1 Defenseman
Dumba (7th),Wild #1 Defenseman
Pouliot (8th),Penguins 2nd pair Defenseman
Trouba (9th),Jets 1st pair Defenseman
Ceci (15th),Sens 2nd pair Defenseman
Määttä (22nd),Penguins 1st pair Defenseman
McCabe (44th),Sabres 2nd pair Defenseman
Severson (60th),Devils 2nd pair Defenseman
Gostisbehere (78th),Flyers #1 Defenseman
Parayoko (86th),Blues 1st pair Defenseman

Oh,but there were great Forwards as well

Galchenyuk (3rd),Canadiens best goal scorer
Forsberg (11th),Predators leader in goals and points
Hertl (17th),Sharks 1st/2nd liner
Teräväinen (18th),Blackhawks 2nd/3rd liner
Laughton (20th),Flyers 2nd/3rd liner
Pearson (30th),Kings 2nd liner
Di Giuseppe (38th),Hurricanes 3rd liner,more goals than Yaks this season
Martinook (58th),Coyotes 2nd liner
Sundqvist (81st),Penguins top rookie

all these only from top 100.

Smart teams? Oh boy. Yakupov was pretty much unanimous as number one.

Being Captain Hindsight about it is just bragging about something you have no right to brag about.

 

[Senor Catface]

People talk about consensus as if it somehow abductes the oilers scouts. Just because everyone was picking him doesnt mean the oilers didn't totally **** the bed here. And the fact that everyone associated in that decision making process hasn't been canned tells me all I need to know about this apparent changing of the guard in terms of Edmonton's management group.

It IS important, even if you don't think it is.

At the time the vast majority of teams would have picked him. The vast. Look up scouting reports, look up rankings. He was the guy.

It wasn't scouting. If it WAS scouting, there would have been leaks and worries and concerns that would have been illustrated in the collection of reports online. There was not.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

It IS important, even if you don't think it is.

At the time the vast majority of teams would have picked him. The vast. Look up scouting reports, look up rankings. He was the guy.

It wasn't scouting. If it WAS scouting, there would have been leaks and worries and concerns that would have been illustrated in the collection of reports online. There was not.

Exactly. When teams try and "be smarter than everyone else" it almost always backfires

 

[ScrillaVilla]

It IS important, even if you don't think it is.

At the time the vast majority of teams would have picked him. The vast. Look up scouting reports, look up rankings. He was the guy.

It wasn't scouting. If it WAS scouting, there would have been leaks and worries and concerns that would have been illustrated in the collection of reports online. There was not.

Pure speculation. It's easy to keep org decisions secrete if you threaten to fire people if it gets out. But I'll agree with @Fourier that if it was Katz then the scouts are cleared. Only those closest to the inside circle will ever know that and to say one way or the other is also pure speculation.

Back to the consensus thing, I don't see how jumping off the bridge because everyone else is doing it somehow clears management. Only in sports is it somehow acceptable to fail. Especially in Edmonton. Pathetic.