Nail Yakupov - How did the scouts get it wrong too?

[Aerchon]

Is it really?

And why selectively with this player?

Yak has had a grand total of 27GP to figure it out post Eakins.

Also, Yak gets far less minutes than other players and a look at his stats should probably involve consideration.

For instance Yak has 399mins played this season. He has 4G 10A 14pts in that toi. An appreciable amount of his minutes have also been bottomsix

Conversely a player like Nuge, who has had several seasons to figure it out has played way more than twice the minutes Yak has, 912mins, and has 8G 22A 30pts despite getting a lot better linemates than Yak on the whole and has had ZERO bottomsix minutes.

Even if we look at EV play alone Yak has 3G in less than half the minutes Nuge took to score 6.

Whats the diff?

Nuge gets better linemates.

So wheres the thread castigating Nuge and wondering about bust? just saying

I know you like to use this, and this year Nuge has been less of a driver than all his other seasons IMO but its still BS.

We have all seen Nuge dominate. Drive a line as the catalyst in one, two, or even all three zones. We all KNOW Nuge, even struggling a bit this year, is the far better offensive and defensive (by a country mile) player.

Yak never seems to find his range or spot or whatever and gets completely lost in the defensive zone as well. He is a complementary player that needs to be sheltered and even then gets eaten alive. He is the clear cut worst of all our one dimensional forwards so he gets played the least and with the worst line mates (but not always).

This team has too many similar but better players than Yak. I would prefer to keep Eberle or even Purcell over Yak but we may be stuck with him depending what gets moved this summer. Plus cap constraints.

I am curious. How many games post Eakins before you give up on Yak? Or is he just golden forever no matter what? If we can't value on him in trade and he doesn't improve I will be done with him by the trade deadline next year. As much as I rag on him I sincerely hope he can pull it all together, just does not seem likely anymore.

 

[Gambl0r83*]

Yakupov led all rookies in scoring his first year, even being injured for a generous amount of games.
Dallas Eakins came in and literally broke this kids confidence and will to compete.

Post-Eakins, he was agruably one of our best forwards toward the end of last season, even better than RNH and Eberle, who were on a tear themselves.

He was playing very well with McDavid, when Hall could not. And he just got back from a lengthy injury

The kid has been through an odyssey of ups and downs, and the way I see it, Yakupov is to be a late bloomer. What lacks in his game is maturity.
Once he solidifies his maturity in the leaugue, which will take multiple seasons from now, he will dominate.

Datsyuk didn't become a PPG until he was 24
The Sedins first 3 seasons they were ghosts.

Maturity and patience is key for Nail Yakupov

Jultz on other hand....

 

[frag2]

Yakupov led all rookies in scoring his first year, even being injured for a generous amount of games.
Dallas Eakins came in and literally broke this kids confidence and will to compete.

Post-Eakins, he was agruably one of our best forwards toward the end of last season, even better than RNH and Eberle, who were on a tear themselves.

He was playing very well with McDavid, when Hall could not. And he just got back from a lengthy injury

The kid has been through an odyssey of ups and downs, and the way I see it, Yakupov is to be a late bloomer. What lacks in his game is maturity.
Once he solidifies his maturity in the leaugue, which will take multiple seasons from now, he will dominate.

Datsyuk didn't become a PPG until he was 24
The Sedins first 3 seasons they were ghosts.

Maturity and patience is key for Nail Yakupov

Jultz on other hand....

This is classic case of misdirection.

Yak is still the same player except he's getting exposed more because responsibilities are greater. As a rookie, he was sheltered as F, only caring about generating offense. Eakins, while still an idiot, tried to instill a more complete game. No one expects Yak to be a Datsyuk or Bergeron but at some point, he's gotta learn to play and read the game better.

He might just be a late bloomer but how long do the Oilers wait? It's already a decade since we've made the playoffs.

The only saving grace for Yak is that he's cheap.

I am curious. How many games post Eakins before you give up on Yak? Or is he just golden forever no matter what? If we can't value on him in trade and he doesn't improve I will be done with him by the trade deadline next year. As much as I rag on him I sincerely hope he can pull it all together, just does not seem likely anymore.

This is how I see it as well [and not just for Yak but anyone that has played poorly under Eakins].

 

[Husker Du]

Is it really?

And why selectively with this player?

Yak has had a grand total of 27GP to figure it out post Eakins.

Also, Yak gets far less minutes than other players and a look at his stats should probably involve consideration.

For instance Yak has 399mins played this season. He has 4G 10A 14pts in that toi. An appreciable amount of his minutes have also been bottomsix

Conversely a player like Nuge, who has had several seasons to figure it out has played way more than twice the minutes Yak has, 912mins, and has 8G 22A 30pts despite getting a lot better linemates than Yak on the whole and has had ZERO bottomsix minutes.

Even if we look at EV play alone Yak has 3G in less than half the minutes Nuge took to score 6.

Whats the diff?

Nuge gets better linemates.

So wheres the thread castigating Nuge and wondering about bust? just saying

The reason there is no thread castigating Nuge as a bust is because he isn't. He's a high-end number 2 center who has been irresponsibly played against other teams top forwards when he was in his teens and early twenties. He was on pace for 50plus points in a down season after missing his top winger (Ebs) for a month and playing with Poo. Not sure how that can be considered a bust.

Yak, on the other hand, had a solid rookie season offensively and then two horrific years. IIRC, he had the worst +/- in the entire league over that time. Not a perfect stat, but paints a picture. To blame Eakins is a complete red herring. Nuge played for Eakins as well and was able to perform. Finally, your argument about Nuge playing with better line mates. Didn't Yak get the vast majority of his points playing with McDavid this year? How many points does he have without McDavid? I sure hope your comment about Nuge playing with better line mates doesn't imply that you think McDavid is a bust.

I'm not ready to give up hope for Yak turning into a great player, but it doesn't look like he will get there. I suspect (pure conjecture on my part) that if you polled every GM and scout in the league, greater than 95% would say Nuge is a better player today and will be a better player overall.

 

[JayTam]

I think some of it is on him.

But the way bigger part goes to Management and Eakins. They/He mishandled him so bad, that its not even funny.

If he can be the Robin to McDavids Batman, Im fine with that. I think a change of teams could do wonders to him, I would not be surised on bit if he is traded and goes on to become a 30 or even 40 goals scorer!

 

[Replacement*]

I know you like to use this, and this year Nuge has been less of a driver than all his other seasons IMO but its still BS.

We have all seen Nuge dominate. Drive a line as the catalyst in one, two, or even all three zones. We all KNOW Nuge, even struggling a bit this year, is the far better offensive and defensive (by a country mile) player.

Yak never seems to find his range or spot or whatever and gets completely lost in the defensive zone as well. He is a complementary player that needs to be sheltered and even then gets eaten alive. He is the clear cut worst of all our one dimensional forwards so he gets played the least and with the worst line mates (but not always).

This team has too many similar but better players than Yak. I would prefer to keep Eberle or even Purcell over Yak but we may be stuck with him depending what gets moved this summer. Plus cap constraints.

I am curious. How many games post Eakins before you give up on Yak? Or is he just golden forever no matter what? If we can't value on him in trade and he doesn't improve I will be done with him by the trade deadline next year. As much as I rag on him I sincerely hope he can pull it all together, just does not seem likely anymore.

Its foolhardy to quickly give up on a player with this much talent. Especially one that continues to show it and has complete games where he is the best Oiler on the ice. When this player is on he is a game breaker. The potential of any young player should be foremost in considering what the peak ability and benefit of having that player is.
Normally some fairly good indication of that would have already been seen. But the Eakins years did result in a stop in development for several players on this club and for reasons that should be understood.
To answer your question I would make a decision on Yak sometime next season. Definitely not this season.

 

[Replacement*]

The reason there is no thread castigating Nuge as a bust is because he isn't. He's a high-end number 2 center who has been irresponsibly played against other teams top forwards when he was in his teens and early twenties. He was on pace for 50plus points in a down season after missing his top winger (Ebs) for a month and playing with Poo. Not sure how that can be considered a bust.

Yak, on the other hand, had a solid rookie season offensively and then two horrific years. IIRC, he had the worst +/- in the entire league over that time. Not a perfect stat, but paints a picture. To blame Eakins is a complete red herring. Nuge played for Eakins as well and was able to perform. Finally, your argument about Nuge playing with better line mates. Didn't Yak get the vast majority of his points playing with McDavid this year? How many points does he have without McDavid? I sure hope your comment about Nuge playing with better line mates doesn't imply that you think McDavid is a bust.

I'm not ready to give up hope for Yak turning into a great player, but it doesn't look like he will get there. I suspect (pure conjecture on my part) that if you polled every GM and scout in the league, greater than 95% would say Nuge is a better player today and will be a better player overall.

Its interesting that you think this is such a one sided argument and worthy of a mocking reply. The following should be a chilling read for anybody assuming resolutely that Nuge has produced better.

Lets look at the respective years one by one as long as Yak has been in the league.

2012-13 Lockout year.

Nail is a green rookie and his 5 on 5 stats that year blow Nuge out of the water. Nail has 1.15G/60M. vs Nuges pathetic .20G/60M. Yak had an impressive 2.20Pts/60mins, a full point higher than Nuges pedestrian 1.29pts/60mins. Nuge that year is also, as usual, playing with the most prolific players on the team.
Yak CLEARLY much more productive than Nuge that season.


2013-14 Nail, who had all of 48 games in a rookie year due to lockout (this is a disadvantage for any rookie player) then wakes up the next season to the absolute nightmare of having Eakins as a head coach. Yak is coming off a spring where he was the best forward on the team as a friggen rookie, yet the first thing Eakins does is bench Yak 4 games into the season. Still a mystery why. Its never been explained. Eakins then proceeds to bury yak in the lineup and giving him a lot of bottomsix looks. Nuge continues to get his peachy assortment of the best linemates this team can give him.
5 on 5 results that year? Almost a dead heat. Nuge with .58G/60mins. Yak with .56G/60mins. Nuge with 1.56pts/60mins. Yak with 1.43. Considering respective linemates call it a draw.

2014-15 Another dose of Eakins. RNh wins the 5 0n 5 matchup this year. Nuge with 1.06G/60mins, Yak with only .50. Nuge with 2pts/60mins Yak trailing with 1.23. A clearly better year for Nuge, but not by the margin that Yak was better than Nuge two years earlier.

2015-16 Eakins, the witch, is dead, long live the kingdom...

Yak once again with better 5 on 5 stats. Yak.53G/60mins. Nuge .51G/60mins. But look at this. Yak with 1.95pts/60mins and Nuge trailing by nearly half a point at 1.52.


So on the basis of that rundown theres two years where Yaks rate of pts production is clearly BETTER than Nuge. One year where its pretty much a saw off and one year where Nuges production is clearly better.

Now, lol, you single out above that yak this year has had 12 ****ing games of McDavid and make a big point of declaring that significant while apparently Nuge having the likes of Hall and Eberle to play with every ****ing year except this one is insignificant in your mind. lol that you would even mention the 12 rookies games of McDavid being such a significant blessing on to Yak. lol. Yak gets 12 games of the best linemate on this club. Nuge gets around 250 before that..

lol that you dismiss Nuges linemates this year. Yak would be quite happy playing with linemates like eberle, Pouliot and does well enough when he sees such quality. Other than McDavid yak has seen a lot worse. Nuge NEVER sees bottomsix minutes on this team. Never. Ever.

I wonder if people will really read and look through this post. I hope posters do. Its sobering.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

http://oilersnation.com/2016/1/23/nail-yakupov-possession-positive

Short article but reasonable conclusion IMO

 

[ChaoticOrange]

http://oilersnation.com/2016/1/23/nail-yakupov-possession-positive

Short article but reasonable conclusion IMO

Those WOWY stats with McDavid are pretty eye opening.

 

[Replacement*]

Those WOWY stats with McDavid are pretty eye opening.

Not nearly enough of a sample to draw much from. That needs to be said first of all.

That said the numbers in that 12 game segment are counter intuitive to what people would assume. For instance that people would assume McDavid was solely driving all that possession play.

 

[frag2]

Its interesting that you think this is such a one sided argument and worthy of a mocking reply. The following should be a chilling read for anybody assuming resolutely that Nuge has produced better.

Lets look at the respective years one by one as long as Yak has been in the league.

2012-13 Lockout year.

Nail is a green rookie and his 5 on 5 stats that year blow Nuge out of the water. Nail has 1.15G/60M. vs Nuges pathetic .20G/60M. Yak had an impressive 2.20Pts/60mins, a full point higher than Nuges pedestrian 1.29pts/60mins. Nuge that year is also, as usual, playing with the most prolific players on the team.
Yak CLEARLY much more productive than Nuge that season.


2013-14 Nail, who had all of 48 games in a rookie year due to lockout (this is a disadvantage for any rookie player) then wakes up the next season to the absolute nightmare of having Eakins as a head coach. Yak is coming off a spring where he was the best forward on the team as a friggen rookie, yet the first thing Eakins does is bench Yak 4 games into the season. Still a mystery why. Its never been explained. Eakins then proceeds to bury yak in the lineup and giving him a lot of bottomsix looks. Nuge continues to get his peachy assortment of the best linemates this team can give him.
5 on 5 results that year? Almost a dead heat. Nuge with .58G/60mins. Yak with .56G/60mins. Nuge with 1.56pts/60mins. Yak with 1.43. Considering respective linemates call it a draw.

2014-15 Another dose of Eakins. RNh wins the 5 0n 5 matchup this year. Nuge with 1.06G/60mins, Yak with only .50. Nuge with 2pts/60mins Yak trailing with 1.23. A clearly better year for Nuge, but not by the margin that Yak was better than Nuge two years earlier.

2015-16 Eakins, the witch, is dead, long live the kingdom...

Yak once again with better 5 on 5 stats. Yak.53G/60mins. Nuge .51G/60mins. But look at this. Yak with 1.95pts/60mins and Nuge trailing by nearly half a point at 1.52.


So on the basis of that rundown theres two years where Yaks rate of pts production is clearly BETTER than Nuge. One year where its pretty much a saw off and one year where Nuges production is clearly better.

Now, lol, you single out above that yak this year has had 12 ****ing games of McDavid and make a big point of declaring that significant while apparently Nuge having the likes of Hall and Eberle to play with every ****ing year except this one is insignificant in your mind. lol that you would even mention the 12 rookies games of McDavid being such a significant blessing on to Yak. lol. Yak gets 12 games of the best linemate on this club. Nuge gets around 250 before that..

lol that you dismiss Nuges linemates this year. Yak would be quite happy playing with linemates like eberle, Pouliot and does well enough when he sees such quality. Other than McDavid yak has seen a lot worse. Nuge NEVER sees bottomsix minutes on this team. Never. Ever.

I wonder if people will really read and look through this post. I hope posters do. Its sobering.

Yak definitely can score. But he rarely gets himself into position to succeed. That, IMO, is his biggest flaw. It takes someone like McDavid who can see several steps ahead to make him "better"

Posters will inevitably point to Hall-McDavid not clicking but I think that was more McDavid getting acclimated to the league, not because it's Yak. Just a case of right place right time for Yak there

That said, I still think both Nuge and Yak are huge disappointments for 1st overall "talents"

 

[ponokanocker]

Those WOWY stats with McDavid are pretty eye opening.

Agreed. He is improving in the aspects of his game that needed the most work. Congrat's too him for all his hard work. edit: I do agree with Replacement that it is a small sample size though, and has it been all Yakupov driving those numbers? Regardless, it is nice to see one of his biggest issues getting fixed.

This is a player the Oilers should be holding onto and trading others way before considering moving Yakupov. Yakupov always seems to be playing hard, unlike some of our "core" that takes shifts/periods/games off. He goes to the dirty areas, and with some success, and we have seen his skill and ability take over games at times. His progression was derailed by Eakins, but if Yakupov and McDavid had not gotten injuried, I highly doubt that anyone would be talking about how scouts got the pick wrong.

 

[frag2]

Agreed. He is improving in the aspects of his game that needed the most work. Congrat's too him for all his hard work. edit: I do agree with Replacement that it is a small sample size though, and has it been all Yakupov driving those numbers? Regardless, it is nice to see one of his biggest issues getting fixed.

This is a player the Oilers should be holding onto and trading others way before considering moving Yakupov. Yakupov always seems to be playing hard, unlike some of our "core" that takes shifts/periods/games off. He goes to the dirty areas, and with some success, and we have seen his skill and ability take over games at times. His progression was derailed by Eakins, but if Yakupov and McDavid had not gotten injuried, I highly doubt that anyone would be talking about how scouts got the pick wrong.

As long as he doesn't ask for the moon next contract, I don't see why they wouldn't keep him.

 

[ponokanocker]

As long as he doesn't ask for the moon next contract, I don't see why they wouldn't keep him.

That is an issue if when McDavid gets back he goes on a tear. What is working in the Oilers favor is his past poor numbers though. I don't have any idea what the next contract will be like, but his current one could be great if him and McDavid click again.

 

[LockDown21]

Its interesting that you think this is such a one sided argument and worthy of a mocking reply. The following should be a chilling read for anybody assuming resolutely that Nuge has produced better.

Lets look at the respective years one by one as long as Yak has been in the league.

2012-13 Lockout year.

Nail is a green rookie and his 5 on 5 stats that year blow Nuge out of the water. Nail has 1.15G/60M. vs Nuges pathetic .20G/60M. Yak had an impressive 2.20Pts/60mins, a full point higher than Nuges pedestrian 1.29pts/60mins. Nuge that year is also, as usual, playing with the most prolific players on the team.
Yak CLEARLY much more productive than Nuge that season.


2013-14 Nail, who had all of 48 games in a rookie year due to lockout (this is a disadvantage for any rookie player) then wakes up the next season to the absolute nightmare of having Eakins as a head coach. Yak is coming off a spring where he was the best forward on the team as a friggen rookie, yet the first thing Eakins does is bench Yak 4 games into the season. Still a mystery why. Its never been explained. Eakins then proceeds to bury yak in the lineup and giving him a lot of bottomsix looks. Nuge continues to get his peachy assortment of the best linemates this team can give him.
5 on 5 results that year? Almost a dead heat. Nuge with .58G/60mins. Yak with .56G/60mins. Nuge with 1.56pts/60mins. Yak with 1.43. Considering respective linemates call it a draw.

2014-15 Another dose of Eakins. RNh wins the 5 0n 5 matchup this year. Nuge with 1.06G/60mins, Yak with only .50. Nuge with 2pts/60mins Yak trailing with 1.23. A clearly better year for Nuge, but not by the margin that Yak was better than Nuge two years earlier.

2015-16 Eakins, the witch, is dead, long live the kingdom...

Yak once again with better 5 on 5 stats. Yak.53G/60mins. Nuge .51G/60mins. But look at this. Yak with 1.95pts/60mins and Nuge trailing by nearly half a point at 1.52.


So on the basis of that rundown theres two years where Yaks rate of pts production is clearly BETTER than Nuge. One year where its pretty much a saw off and one year where Nuges production is clearly better.

Now, lol, you single out above that yak this year has had 12 ****ing games of McDavid and make a big point of declaring that significant while apparently Nuge having the likes of Hall and Eberle to play with every ****ing year except this one is insignificant in your mind. lol that you would even mention the 12 rookies games of McDavid being such a significant blessing on to Yak. lol. Yak gets 12 games of the best linemate on this club. Nuge gets around 250 before that..

lol that you dismiss Nuges linemates this year. Yak would be quite happy playing with linemates like eberle, Pouliot and does well enough when he sees such quality. Other than McDavid yak has seen a lot worse. Nuge NEVER sees bottomsix minutes on this team. Never. Ever.

I wonder if people will really read and look through this post. I hope posters do. Its sobering.

What a post. Can't believe that yak is scoring lately (modestly, but not bad for someone who almost had his ankle snapped off) and yet everyone appears dead set on running this guy away. He's still young and signed cheaper than anyone else. Hes growing still but no one wants to let him for some reason. Can't wait to see him back with McDavid.

 

[McAsuno]

http://oilersnation.com/2016/1/23/nail-yakupov-possession-positive

Short article but reasonable conclusion IMO

Great article for sure. I don't doubt that Yak's play will improve even more once Connor returns.

 

[Husker Du]

Its interesting that you think this is such a one sided argument and worthy of a mocking reply. The following should be a chilling read for anybody assuming resolutely that Nuge has produced better.

Lets look at the respective years one by one as long as Yak has been in the league.

2012-13 Lockout year.

Nail is a green rookie and his 5 on 5 stats that year blow Nuge out of the water. Nail has 1.15G/60M. vs Nuges pathetic .20G/60M. Yak had an impressive 2.20Pts/60mins, a full point higher than Nuges pedestrian 1.29pts/60mins. Nuge that year is also, as usual, playing with the most prolific players on the team.
Yak CLEARLY much more productive than Nuge that season.


2013-14 Nail, who had all of 48 games in a rookie year due to lockout (this is a disadvantage for any rookie player) then wakes up the next season to the absolute nightmare of having Eakins as a head coach. Yak is coming off a spring where he was the best forward on the team as a friggen rookie, yet the first thing Eakins does is bench Yak 4 games into the season. Still a mystery why. Its never been explained. Eakins then proceeds to bury yak in the lineup and giving him a lot of bottomsix looks. Nuge continues to get his peachy assortment of the best linemates this team can give him.
5 on 5 results that year? Almost a dead heat. Nuge with .58G/60mins. Yak with .56G/60mins. Nuge with 1.56pts/60mins. Yak with 1.43. Considering respective linemates call it a draw.

2014-15 Another dose of Eakins. RNh wins the 5 0n 5 matchup this year. Nuge with 1.06G/60mins, Yak with only .50. Nuge with 2pts/60mins Yak trailing with 1.23. A clearly better year for Nuge, but not by the margin that Yak was better than Nuge two years earlier.

2015-16 Eakins, the witch, is dead, long live the kingdom...

Yak once again with better 5 on 5 stats. Yak.53G/60mins. Nuge .51G/60mins. But look at this. Yak with 1.95pts/60mins and Nuge trailing by nearly half a point at 1.52.


So on the basis of that rundown theres two years where Yaks rate of pts production is clearly BETTER than Nuge. One year where its pretty much a saw off and one year where Nuges production is clearly better.

Now, lol, you single out above that yak this year has had 12 ****ing games of McDavid and make a big point of declaring that significant while apparently Nuge having the likes of Hall and Eberle to play with every ****ing year except this one is insignificant in your mind. lol that you would even mention the 12 rookies games of McDavid being such a significant blessing on to Yak. lol. Yak gets 12 games of the best linemate on this club. Nuge gets around 250 before that..

lol that you dismiss Nuges linemates this year. Yak would be quite happy playing with linemates like eberle, Pouliot and does well enough when he sees such quality. Other than McDavid yak has seen a lot worse. Nuge NEVER sees bottomsix minutes on this team. Never. Ever.

I wonder if people will really read and look through this post. I hope posters do. Its sobering.

First, let me say there was no intent to be mocking in my post. If that was your interpretation of my tone then I apologize.

Second, Nuge has been putting up similar or better pts/60 (except one year as you pointed out) playing against first line players. In other words he has put up similar numbers against vastly superior players. I might add that he has been better defensively judging by +/-.

Third, I pointed out Yak's production with McDavid because you dedicated 3 paragraphs in your original post (sorry don't know how to multi-quote) comparing Nuge's and Yak's numbers this year. The point I was making (obtusely), was that if you take away Yak's time with Mcdavid where he was scoring at an excellent pace, he has contributed very little. At some point he needs to show that he can generate offense on his own.

Fourth, since Yak came into the league, he and RNH have had the same number of coaches. In every case the coach has preferred to play Nuge top line minutes and Yak generally third line minutes. You and I can argue of which stats are important in comparing the players but at the end of the day the coaches have spoken very clearly and consistently. Unless you make the argument that all of the coaches have been misusing their assets, then I think it is pretty clear who is considered the more reliable and valuable player. This isn't to say Yak is a bust, but it is pretty clear that none of the coaches have thought RNH is a bust.

Finally, as I pointed out in my post I feel, and I think the rest of the league's gm's and scouts would agree, that RNH is a better player and will likely continue to be. I am not prepared to say Yak is a bust but I do think he has to be significantly better in all aspects of his game to earn a higher spot in the lineup.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

If anyone wants to laughably call Galchenyuk a better player.

His last 18 games (without a vezina goalie.. and a firedrill defense).

18GP 2G 0A -19.

 

[McAsuno]

First, let me say there was no intent to be mocking in my post. If that was your interpretation of my tone then I apologize.

Second, Nuge has been putting up similar or better pts/60 (except one year as you pointed out) playing against first line players. In other words he has put up similar numbers against vastly superior players. I might add that he has been better defensively judging by +/-.

Third, I pointed out Yak's production with McDavid because you dedicated 3 paragraphs in your original post (sorry don't know how to multi-quote) comparing Nuge's and Yak's numbers this year. The point I was making (obtusely), was that if you take away Yak's time with Mcdavid where he was scoring at an excellent pace, he has contributed very little. At some point he needs to show that he can generate offense on his own.

Fourth, since Yak came into the league, he and RNH have had the same number of coaches. In every case the coach has preferred to play Nuge top line minutes and Yak generally third line minutes. You and I can argue of which stats are important in comparing the players but at the end of the day the coaches have spoken very clearly and consistently. Unless you make the argument that all of the coaches have been misusing their assets, then I think it is pretty clear who is considered the more reliable and valuable player. This isn't to say Yak is a bust, but it is pretty clear that none of the coaches have thought RNH is a bust.

Finally, as I pointed out in my post I feel, and I think the rest of the league's gm's and scouts would agree, that RNH is a better player and will likely continue to be. I am not prepared to say Yak is a bust but I do think he has to be significantly better in all aspects of his game to earn a higher spot in the lineup.

Let's not use +/- to indicate a player's defensive play. Its definitely one of the most overrated stat to use as a comparison between players.

 

[oilz89*]

First 3 games back he's had 2 good ones and one bad one. He is playing better then when McDavid got injured

 

[Replacement*]

First, let me say there was no intent to be mocking in my post. If that was your interpretation of my tone then I apologize.

Second, Nuge has been putting up similar or better pts/60 (except one year as you pointed out) playing against first line players. In other words he has put up similar numbers against vastly superior players. I might add that he has been better defensively judging by +/-.

Third, I pointed out Yak's production with McDavid because you dedicated 3 paragraphs in your original post (sorry don't know how to multi-quote) comparing Nuge's and Yak's numbers this year. The point I was making (obtusely), was that if you take away Yak's time with Mcdavid where he was scoring at an excellent pace, he has contributed very little. At some point he needs to show that he can generate offense on his own.

Fourth, since Yak came into the league, he and RNH have had the same number of coaches. In every case the coach has preferred to play Nuge top line minutes and Yak generally third line minutes. You and I can argue of which stats are important in comparing the players but at the end of the day the coaches have spoken very clearly and consistently. Unless you make the argument that all of the coaches have been misusing their assets, then I think it is pretty clear who is considered the more reliable and valuable player. This isn't to say Yak is a bust, but it is pretty clear that none of the coaches have thought RNH is a bust.

Finally, as I pointed out in my post I feel, and I think the rest of the league's gm's and scouts would agree, that RNH is a better player and will likely continue to be. I am not prepared to say Yak is a bust but I do think he has to be significantly better in all aspects of his game to earn a higher spot in the lineup.

This point particularly should have been rendered moot by my post as this is 12 games where Yak has been paired with McDavid and the first 3 of which afairc the team failed to score. So really about 9 games out of +200 career games. In view of Yaks entire career production which I have tried to expand on for elucidation (and I think a worthy effort on my part) the McDavid part is insignificant.

What is more significant, and I've posted many times on this before is that Yak is MUCH more productive anytime he hasn't had Eakins as head coach. Any time, any year.

As far as QOC my own bias, if it is that, is that one also has to look at QOT.

Absolutely in his career Nuge has usually had tougher opposition. But Absolutely Nuge has usually (almost always) had better linemates.

Does any of that equal out.

It is interesting that Yak generally produces at higher rates than Nuge in 5 on 5 play and has so for the majority of the respective careers of these two players. Prior to me posting the numbers I doubt many people even knew, or would have expected that. That in the least should be interesting, and add pause for thought.

Now of course production, and EV production particularly, is only one subset and mark of a player. But BOTH of these players were drafted on ability to create and produce OFFENSE and so this is a subset that is not at all insignificant.

I'll point out as well that neither is really a good defensive player. Nuge is drowning at 3.11GA/60mins in 5 on 5 play this year. Several years into his career and with stronger opposition not a new thing to him.

Interestingly, as others have mentioned, Yak, who has been an ownzone adventure in prior years is now showing signs of being a good possession player, shot and chance generator, and has numbers that suggest market improvement in all round play.

As I've mentioned many times before neither player is a bust. But both to this point have limitations. But these are the players we have and we should probably look at them further to know what we got.

ps thanks for apology, not required, and sorry as well if my reply had mirrored tone.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If anyone wants to laughably call Galchenyuk a better player.

His last 18 games (without a vezina goalie.. and a firedrill defense).

18GP 2G 0A -19.

Habs fans have their heads buried in the sand regarding Galchenyuk. Its all the coaches fault or his linemates fault. Even the most ardent Yak supporter will admit he's got holes in his game but try telling a Habs fan that Galchenyuk has flaws.

 

[Replacement*]

Let's not use +/- to indicate a player's defensive play. Its definitely one of the most overrated stat to use as a comparison between players.

Indeed. Its a team metric. Lots of Nuges career GA are disguised by being with the best scorers on this team in Hall and Eberle.

Nuges GA 5 on 5 this year with reconfiguration and Hall largely not being with him is horrible, simply horrible. That's a team metric as well but its a more clear breakdown of events than a +/- mishmash.

A look at GFON GAON at least allows more information. Add /60mins rates and even clearer.

 

[McAsuno]

Habs fans have their heads buried in the sand regarding Galchenyuk. Its all the coaches fault or his linemates fault. Even the most ardent Yak supporter will admit he's got holes in his game but try telling a Habs fan that Galchenyuk has flaws.

but he's superior than RNH and Yak apparently.

 

[Narnia]

Yakupov led all rookies in scoring his first year, even being injured for a generous amount of games.
Dallas Eakins came in and literally broke this kids confidence and will to compete.

Post-Eakins, he was agruably one of our best forwards toward the end of last season, even better than RNH and Eberle, who were on a tear themselves.

He was playing very well with McDavid, when Hall could not. And he just got back from a lengthy injury

The kid has been through an odyssey of ups and downs, and the way I see it, Yakupov is to be a late bloomer. What lacks in his game is maturity.
Once he solidifies his maturity in the leaugue, which will take multiple seasons from now, he will dominate.

Datsyuk didn't become a PPG until he was 24
The Sedins first 3 seasons they were ghosts.

Maturity and patience is key for Nail Yakupov

Jultz on other hand....

During Yak's rookie year, there was a lockout and Yak didn't miss games because of injury.