Nail Yakupov - How did the scouts get it wrong too?
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harpoon
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- Dec 23, 2005
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It was a good post. But as you know, numbers don't always mean much on this board.
I believe it was Chaotic who posted only seven guys have scored more than Eberle since he broke into the league and we have a large contingent of the board who wants to dump the player because he doesn't win board battles and lollygags it back to the bench on shift changes.
One thing I would like to get your opinion on ... On this tire fire club would you consider it advantageous to be getting first line minutes every night no matter what (like Nuge)? Or advantageous to be slightly sheltered (like Yak)? I mean we watched Horcoff fail badly with the pressure of first line minutes. Gagner wilted in the heat too. Now RNH is seemingly struggling with the responsibilities.
My question is, for a young man breaking into the league do you think that it would be better (for development of the player) to see Thornton and Getzlaf every night in a first line role, with pressure to produce, or see third line comp, and face less pressure to put up points?
It seems like some folks are suggesting that Yak should have been playing higher up the lineup, and therefore facing more pressure. I'm not sure that given what I've seen of this player, more pressure is what he needs.
GMofOilers
Registered User
He hasn't broke 20 goals yet. He hasn't broke 40 points yet.
Yet we are stating he's a better producer than Nuge.
This is cherry picking of analytics at its finest!
Yet we are stating he's a better producer than Nuge.
This is cherry picking of analytics at its finest!
elsubz
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- Nov 3, 2007
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Don't know where you're getting your stats but his last 18 games he's had 3 goals and 4 assists. And he was our leading scorer in the month of december. That's how sad our team currently is
The Panther
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At this point, he's a bust as far as I'm concerned. If we're being (charitably) fair about it, he is the 2nd top-NHL scorer of his draft-class, but it was an unusually weak draft pool. For a #1 pick who was basically guaranteed ice-time and time to develop (albeit in the Oilers' ******** 'system'), he is a bust.
I have rarely (never?) seen a #1 draft choice with as poor "hands" as Yakupov. He can handle the puck at speed all right, but he simply has no scoring touch. (Nugent-Hopkins, by contrast, has great scoring touch and should shoot more.) Yakupov either misses the net or shoots poorly in the rare cases where he gets a puck on net. No touch.
I have rarely (never?) seen a #1 draft choice with as poor "hands" as Yakupov. He can handle the puck at speed all right, but he simply has no scoring touch. (Nugent-Hopkins, by contrast, has great scoring touch and should shoot more.) Yakupov either misses the net or shoots poorly in the rare cases where he gets a puck on net. No touch.
No thanks. Don't need a player that has an attitude problem like Drouin and doesn't want to earn his place on the roster.
harpoon
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Yakupov basically tried the same stunt as Drouin. He just didn't take it quite as far.
Cloned
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I would actually like to know how many people would agree with this sentiment.
From I can gather from Yak supporters in this thread, I've made a good thread to generate discussion and debate.
Wouldn't be the first time I've disagreed with you though, Replacement, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
This I would agree with too.
When I made that post about what good shooters do, the end summation of Yakupov missing those elements to his game is basically what you've described. The guy has a hard time scoring on what should be high percentage looks - breakaways, one timer setups, 2 on 1s, etc.
Pointteen
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Fourier
Registered User
I don't think the scouts got it wrong. Watching Yak in his first year in the OHL the kid looked great. He scored beautiful goals both off the rush and with his quick release or one timer. Sarnia did not have a great team so he did not have a lot of support. This may have hurt his development somewhat because he would tend to do a lot by himself, but he was never a selfish player. Always looked like a very good playmaker to me. Still he ended up with 49 goals and 101 points which was the best season by a player not yet draft eligible since Tavares's 16 year old season. The kid looked flat out dominant.
His draft year was up and down. He struggled himself with injuries but Sarnia also lost a key player when Galchenyuk went down right out of the gate. But he still absolutely deserved to be the #1 pick.
His first year as a pro was actually quiet successful. Playing in the KHL with mostly 3rd line players and getting only about 10 minutes a game he scored 10 goals in 22 games for a team that did not have much in the way of offense. That total was good enough to see him finish 4th in goals scored on his team despite playing only 40% of the games. At the same age Taresenko had 9 goals in 42 games. He scored at a better pace than Kuznetzov did even as a 21 year old in the KHL.
And while there is a lot of revisionist history about Yak padding his stats in a bunch of games down the stretch that meant nothing, something that is just not true, the reality is that in his first year he not only lead all rookies in goals and points but also lead the Oilers in goals. And he did this playing with a dogs breakfast of line mates. Again, he produced better than either Taresenko or Kuznetzov in either of their first two years in the NHL despite being as much as 3 years younger than both.
At that point Yak really needed someone to help fill in other parts of his game so that he could be a more complete player and to learn to complement his line mates without stifling the offensive part of his game. But what he got was Dallas Eakins. How much of it is on Yak and how much of it is on Eakins we will never really know. But the player we see now is so indecisive and lacking in confidence offensively that there is no question in my mind that he has been damaged by incompetent coaching. This could not be farther from the player I watched in the OHL or even the guy who played as a rookie in 2012-2013.
Honestly I am not sure if he will ever turn the corner. But he still could. And for right noiw he is a cheap option that you can still afford to take a chance on.
His draft year was up and down. He struggled himself with injuries but Sarnia also lost a key player when Galchenyuk went down right out of the gate. But he still absolutely deserved to be the #1 pick.
His first year as a pro was actually quiet successful. Playing in the KHL with mostly 3rd line players and getting only about 10 minutes a game he scored 10 goals in 22 games for a team that did not have much in the way of offense. That total was good enough to see him finish 4th in goals scored on his team despite playing only 40% of the games. At the same age Taresenko had 9 goals in 42 games. He scored at a better pace than Kuznetzov did even as a 21 year old in the KHL.
And while there is a lot of revisionist history about Yak padding his stats in a bunch of games down the stretch that meant nothing, something that is just not true, the reality is that in his first year he not only lead all rookies in goals and points but also lead the Oilers in goals. And he did this playing with a dogs breakfast of line mates. Again, he produced better than either Taresenko or Kuznetzov in either of their first two years in the NHL despite being as much as 3 years younger than both.
At that point Yak really needed someone to help fill in other parts of his game so that he could be a more complete player and to learn to complement his line mates without stifling the offensive part of his game. But what he got was Dallas Eakins. How much of it is on Yak and how much of it is on Eakins we will never really know. But the player we see now is so indecisive and lacking in confidence offensively that there is no question in my mind that he has been damaged by incompetent coaching. This could not be farther from the player I watched in the OHL or even the guy who played as a rookie in 2012-2013.
Honestly I am not sure if he will ever turn the corner. But he still could. And for right noiw he is a cheap option that you can still afford to take a chance on.
Replacement*
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I would actually like to know how many people would agree with this sentiment.
From I can gather from Yak supporters in this thread, I've made a good thread to generate discussion and debate.
Wouldn't be the first time I've disagreed with you though, Replacement, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
.
Hey, I've stated my case well in a challenging post comparing the year to year comparisons of 5 on 5 production rates of Yak vs Nuge. Which has shown that Yak has had the edge overall in production rates, Goal scoring rates, etc.
Yak has also had the highest production rates in a year suggesting that if he got the same use, and same toi as Nuge he probably would have greater pts and goal totals.
Now lets be clear, both of these guys were drafted for offensive acumen, nothing else. #1 pick forwards are not drafted to be checking players. They're drafted on offensive ability.
Yak is showing himself to be better in this regard.
My stance is that its unwarranted, and awfully negative, to have either Nuge, or Yak the subject of a thread on "bust" so early in respective careers. This place is careening into a chasm of negavity enough without threads on X player is bust. ymmv
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Fourier
Registered User
Go back and watch him in the OHL, KHL and in his first year in the NHL. He scored on these types of opportunities on a regular basis. He had a 21% shooting percentage. You don't get those sort of numbers by missing high percentage shots. I don't know how one can resolve what he is like now with what he was before other than possibly that he simply over thinks everything and has lost his confidence.
It's also not the case that he misses the net a lot relative to how much he shoots. In fact, just the opposite. Compared with other shooters he tend to hit the net on a much higher percentage of shots. If anything he hits the goalie too much not misses the net.
Replacement*
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As you've pointed out Eberle is a consistent producer and goal scorer on this team and on a team that has often lacked the same. So he has a place here. Still, people want to see better all round game from him.It was a good post. But as you know, numbers don't always mean much on this board.
I believe it was Chaotic who posted only seven guys have scored more than Eberle since he broke into the league and we have a large contingent of the board who wants to dump the player because he doesn't win board battles and lollygags it back to the bench on shift changes.
I'd want the talented players to be seeing the best opponents. To have that as their challenge and supplemented by playing with the best players the team has. For instance the Flames do this in Calgary with Gaudreau. The player benefits by knowing that he has to be at his absolute best every night. To me its one way to do it with top flyte talent. Throw them in the deep end and keep them there. In the case off a Gaudreau he resolutely refuses to fail. Why do Yak or Nuge so regularly have large stretches of games where they are completely invisible in opposition end? This would be unacceptable play from either in Calgary.
But of Nuge and Yak its imo harder for Yak because he REQUIRES good linemates (just like Nuge does) only that Yak often isn't getting premier linemates. Even when he's getting passable offensive help from guys like Kassian and Letestu Yak is doing OK. But when its Lander and Korpi or Klink or Gazdik? Forget it.
I think Yak can produce against a lot of lines if he seeing them head on along WITH playing with talented linemates.
Again I believe #1 picks should be forged in the fire and should be in the fire most every night. Playing the best, and with the best is what improves their game. Getting buried in bottomsix NHL play is not a way to sharpen their skills. Not for #1 picks, they need more exposure. Especially those that want it and seek it.
The pressure isn't the issue. This player WANTS to have more of a role and it defeats his confidence as he so often DOESN'T have it on this team. Nothing makes this player happier than being part of a big play, big goal, or cheering on a team mates big goal. He's mercurial, clearly, so put him in the fire all the time and keep him invested and sharp and at his best this way. If you don't do that this player is susceptible to feeling not part of things, to feeling a funk.
Heres what the Flames would do with Yak. If he had a game where he was ****ing up they would tend to ignore it and keep putting him out there so he has nowhere to run or hide. They would make the player be embarrassed out there on occasion to FORCE the determination and anger that it won't be happening again anytime soon. Theres absolutely no doubt that the Flames approach is much different and that they trhough Gaudreau, Monahan in th deep end from the start and whether they can swim is never in doubt. YOU HAVE TO. Instead Yak makes a bad play here ahd he's buried in bottomsix. Yak scores goals and has games where he is the best Oiler and he gets buried in bottomsix..
Now lastly, the problem here as you know is that our D does not support players, young players, as well as the D in Calgary. But then that means that the D is at fault, and not the young players here, which you agree with. So why should any of us pretend its the individual fault of Yak, Nuge, Eberle, Gagner, etc and makes threads about them being busts. If any of these players fail or is incomplete its BECAUSE of the Oilers org.
Hope this is clear.
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GMofOilers
Registered User
Fourier
Registered User
He was also on pace for 70+ points. Small sample size means both numbers are meaningless.
GMofOilers
Registered User
Cherry picking of stats are all meaningless when it comes to Yak.
Fact is hes never broken 40 points or 20 goals yet.
Replacement*
Checked out
So in this stated opinion its Yaks fault he had his breakout rookie season in a lockout season of 48GP where he had 17G 14A 31pts?
Please let us know if you are even remotely serious in these selective and specious comments.
CLEARLY Yak was above both of your stated benchmarks in rookie season.
Even this season, without injury, he's on pace for 41 pts.
Considering he spends considerable time buried in bottomsix not so bad either.
Are we expecting topsix production from a player that isn't getting big minutes, that isn't getting choice minutes, top PP minutes etc?
GMofOilers
Registered User
Still didn't and who knows with this inconsistent player if he hits those marks. You can assume all you want but I'll just state facts.
You're the one cherry picking stats
.How do you say he was on pace for only X amount of goals, yet call it cherry picking when someone else says he was also on pace for X amount of points.
?!?
so why does every Oiler coach not play him more then? Are you suggesting they are all conspiring against Yak?
GMofOilers
Registered User
You're the one cherry picking stats
How do you say he was on pace for only X amount of goals, yet call it cherry picking when someone else says he was also on pace for X amount of points.
?!?
To show people how silly it looks.
GMofOilers
Registered User
We can't use the coach as excuse this year. We have to use the McDavid excuse this year instead.
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