Muscle!

[LeapOnOver]

Grabner has about as much snarl as a ***** cat.

That's garbage. Grabner throws the body around. His hits aren't all that devastating nor effective, but I still consider a guy willing to make the hit as someone who plays with snarl. Keep a better eye out when he's on the ice and you'll see it. Someone that fast could easily veer off but he doesn't always do that.

Anyway, even if you do feel the need to scratch him off the list that doesn't eliminate the long list of names i provided....

Didn't take long to find at least one decent example....http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=431259&catid=35

and of course this....http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...en-twogame-suspension-for-hit-on-nathan-gerbe

 

[charlie1]

That's garbage. Grabner throws the body around. His hits aren't all that devastating nor effective, but I still consider a guy willing to make the hit as someone who plays with snarl. Keep a better eye out when he's on the ice and you'll see it. Someone that fast could easily veer off but he doesn't always do that.

Anyway, even if you do feel the need to scratch him off the list that doesn't eliminate the long list of names i provided....

Didn't take long to find at least one decent example....http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=431259&catid=35

and of course this....http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...en-twogame-suspension-for-hit-on-nathan-gerbe

What the heck is Carkner doing there? Talk about gap control...

 

[bigd]

That's garbage. Grabner throws the body around. His hits aren't all that devastating nor effective, but I still consider a guy willing to make the hit as someone who plays with snarl. Keep a better eye out when he's on the ice and you'll see it. Someone that fast could easily veer off but he doesn't always do that.

Anyway, even if you do feel the need to scratch him off the list that doesn't eliminate the long list of names i provided....

Didn't take long to find at least one decent example....http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=431259&catid=35

and of course this....http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...en-twogame-suspension-for-hit-on-nathan-gerbe

I guess we differ on our definition of snarl. Strait throws more hits than Grabner or Cizikas but I wouldn't call it snarl.

 

[Darth Milbury]

I guess we differ on our definition of snarl. Strait throws more hits than Grabner or Cizikas but I wouldn't call it snarl.

Yeah, really. If we're defining Grabner as our definition of "snarl" - we're in big trouble.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Yeah, really. If we're defining Grabner as our definition of "snarl" - we're in big trouble.

Snarl, playing with an edge (hence the videos I found in only 5 seconds of searching)....whatever it was a ridiculous thread to even start so I'll just back out now so you can stop trying to protect the china cabinet....

 

[LeapOnOver]

I guess we differ on our definition of snarl. Strait throws more hits than Grabner or Cizikas but I wouldn't call it snarl.

big difference from a pcat though eh Mr. Embellishment?

 

[stranger34]

Go down the roster and tell me who doesn't play with snarl and heart. I can do it for you:

Guys who play with snarl and heart:
JT
Okposo
Clutterbuck
Martin
Cizikas
de Haan
Carkner
Grabner
Hamonic
Nelson

The rest either lack snarl, or lack heart, or both. At least half the lineup is snarl and heart and that's not including the addition of Kulemin. Like I said, we are fine.

JT, de Haan, Grabner, and Nelson all fall short of your heart AND snarl qualifier.

 

[bigd]

Snarl, playing with an edge (hence the videos I found in only 5 seconds of searching)....whatever it was a ridiculous thread to even start so I'll just back out now so you can stop trying to protect the china cabinet....

Your list of snarl and heart players was ridiculous. Some of them have heart and some of them have snarl but not many of them have both.

 

[LeapOnOver]

JT, de Haan, Grabner, and Nelson all fall short of your heart AND snarl qualifier.

Just another thing we disagree on then. Not worth trying to prove it, but I'm shocked you don't think JT plays with snarl. Especially lately, he's been retaliating on the abuse he gets a lot...even taking some bad penalties because of it. If that's not snarl than I don't know what is.....unless you don't think he plays with heart.

 

[stranger34]

Just another thing we disagree on then. Not worth trying to prove it, but I'm shocked you don't think JT plays with snarl. Especially lately, he's been retaliating on the abuse he gets a lot...even taking some bad penalties because of it. If that's not snarl than I don't know what is.....unless you don't think he plays with heart.

Idk I find JT to be more whine than snarl... but agree he had added some chippyness and edge to his game of late

 

[LeapOnOver]

Idk I find JT to be more whine than snarl.., but agree he had added some chippyness abs edge to his game of late

Fair enough. It's borderline whine, but not nearly as bad as Cindy or some of the other stars out there. Doesn't take a lot in my book to define snarl. I'm not talking fierceness or anything, but I see snarl in those players. You certainly can't define them as soft like the opa seemed to imply.

 

[stranger34]

Fair enough. It's borderline whine, but not nearly as bad as Cindy or some of the other stars out there. Doesn't take a lot in my book to define snarl. I'm not talking fierceness or anything, but I see snarl in those players. You certainly can't define them as soft like the opa seemed to imply.

definitely not soft, but I also don't think any opposing players fear JT's temper... although as I say this I'm starting to remember a lot more slashes and chippy play from JT last year so maybe I might be leaning towards your view on this one.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Tavares is, in many ways, one of the toughest kids in the league. I've seen him get off a shot with the opposing teams defenders draped all over him. He's all business on the ice, and always makes the move even if he know he is going to pay a price.

Saying he plays with "snarl" is just silly though. Its not like he is rubbing guys out in the corner, or playing a chippy aggressive game. I wouldn't want him playing that way either - we need him in one piece for the full haul.


I don't define "snarl" as guys like Grabner, Tavares, de Haan, or even Okposo. Okposo and de Haan are both willing hitters (Grabner and Tavares, not so much) but I doubt that opposing players feel any element of fear when these guys are on the ice.

Besides that, the title of the thread was "muscle" - and I was referring to size and strength. I was pretty shocked by de Haan's physical edge, because my vision of him was always more of a Kaberle-type cerebral guy. But, that doesn't change the fact that he is a 190 pound who can easily get over muscled. Now, you can have a smart skilled player like that as an important component of your team. But, you can't have an entire team of guys like that. Hicky, Vish, and de Haan form the nucleus of what is likely the smallest defense in the league.


That's why we need a Boychuk type very badly, IMO.

 

[Quicklime]

Tavares is, in many ways, one of the toughest kids in the league. I've seen him get off a shot with the opposing teams defenders draped all over him. He's all business on the ice, and always makes the move even if he know he is going to pay a price.

Saying he plays with "snarl" is just silly though. Its not like he is rubbing guys out in the corner, or playing a chippy aggressive game. I wouldn't want him playing that way either - we need him in one piece for the full haul.


I don't define "snarl" as guys like Grabner, Tavares, de Haan, or even Okposo. Okposo and de Haan are both willing hitters (Grabner and Tavares, not so much) but I doubt that opposing players feel any element of fear when these guys are on the ice.

Besides that, the title of the thread was "muscle" - and I was referring to size and strength. I was pretty shocked by de Haan's physical edge, because my vision of him was always more of a Kaberle-type cerebral guy. But, that doesn't change the fact that he is a 190 pound who can easily get over muscled. Now, you can have a smart skilled player like that as an important component of your team. But, you can't have an entire team of guys like that. Hicky, Vish, and de Haan form the nucleus of what is likely the smallest defense in the league.


That's why we need a Boychuk type very badly, IMO.

As said on the trade forum, the Islanders can almost put together a blueline of smallish, lefty-shooting puckmovers:

deHann - Donovan
Hickey - Visnovsky
Brennan

We need size, defensive acumen, toughness and a right handed shot. There's a chance Bartkowski from the B's could fit that role as well, but either way there's a need for breaking a kind of 'monotony' with the defense as it stands, and they will have a tough time doing so without someone to push Carkner out of the line-up and provide strong defensive hockey.

 

[Seph]

Brennan is considered smallish at 6'1" and 213 lbs? In that case might as well include Strait and fill out the lineup.

But these guys both seem average sized to me, not snallish.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Brennan is considered smallish at 6'1" and 213 lbs? In that case might as well include Strait and fill out the lineup.

But these guys both seem average sized to me, not snallish.

I agree with you that neither of these player is truly small, its unlikely that either will be in the top five.

You've still got Vish, de Haan, and Hickey in our top group. Donovan is not huge either.

Lots of smallish guy on our blueline, which should be a concern to all.

 

[Quicklime]

Brennan is considered smallish at 6'1" and 213 lbs? In that case might as well include Strait and fill out the lineup.

But these guys both seem average sized to me, not snallish.

Oops - maybe a puck-mover's less-than-aggressive game is what I'm going for - perhaps a RHD with some bark is the better way to put it.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Oops - maybe a puck-mover's less-than-aggressive game is what I'm going for - perhaps a RHD with some bark is the better way to put it.

A guy with bark who can play in the top four!

 

[Quicklime]

A guy with bark who can play in the top four!

And hopefully addressed as well, shooting right and having a knack for playing with a physically opposing approach.

 

[Seph]

I agree with you that neither of these player is truly small, its unlikely that either will be in the top five.

You've still got Vish, de Haan, and Hickey in our top group. Donovan is not huge either.

Lots of smallish guy on our blueline, which should be a concern to all.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to imply that either were any kind of answer when it comes to the size/snarl questions on the Islanders' blueline. I just thought Brennan's inclusion on a list of small players was a little odd.

Personally, I'm not terribly optimistic about the trade market for a guy that can truly address this issue, so I am personally just hoping the Reinhart is up to the task.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to imply that either were any kind of answer when it comes to the size/snarl questions on the Islanders' blueline. I just thought Brennan's inclusion on a list of small players was a little odd.

Personally, I'm not terribly optimistic about the trade market for a guy that can truly address this issue, so I am personally just hoping the Reinhart is up to the task.

Sadly, I agree.

 

[Tavares2TheRescue]

I'm fine with having a team of tiny weaklings as long as they're, y'know, actually good at hockey.

 

[crasherino]

I'm fine with having a team of tiny weaklings as long as they're, y'know, actually good at hockey.

I'm fine with an individual player who is a "tiny weakling" if he's good at hockey. But I'd rather not skate a whole team of them. I'd rather my lineup be balanced and have different guys bring different skill sets to the table.

I like Hickey and Vis and have no problem with their game and what they contribute. BUT, the D corp - as a whole - would look much better if it had Reinhart and Boychuk added to it. I don't want size solely for the sake of size - we have Carkner for that. And unfortunately Carkner is, what they call in French, le pylon. But adding defenders with some size to each D pairing makes me feel so much better.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Personally, I'm not terribly optimistic about the trade market for a guy that can truly address this issue, so I am personally just hoping the Reinhart is up to the task.

I often think Dmen generally need a lot of time. Any form of rushing can be fatal or at least set them back for years.

This said, Reinhart has a man's body, maturity, comes from an NHL family and has 5 years of WHL experience behind him.

In addition, he plays an intelligent game.

I truly think he's ready for a solid #6 role with growing responsibility as the season progresses.

The big question is, will he already be THAT much better than Donovan, Brennan, Strait and Church that we couldn't let him at least start on the farm?

My guess is he'll be a regular by January.

 

[Quicklime]

I'm fine with an individual player who is a "tiny weakling" if he's good at hockey. But I'd rather not skate a whole team of them. I'd rather my lineup be balanced and have different guys bring different skill sets to the table.

I like Hickey and Vis and have no problem with their game and what they contribute. BUT, the D corp - as a whole - would look much better if it had Reinhart and Boychuk added to it. I don't want size solely for the sake of size - we have Carkner for that. And unfortunately Carkner is, what they call in French, le pylon. But adding defenders with some size to each D pairing makes me feel so much better.

Agreed - plus, a balanced line up's one less thing for an opponent to key in on, like if your owner wants to skate a team of Marys and everyone else in the league knows a little bit of sandpaper can make half the roster flinch/dodge contact like Xavier LaFlamme in the first part of Goon.

Hickey's fine; Vis is at the end of his career, and I too like their contributions - I think they'd both be maximized knowing that their pinches are protected by a strong defensive presence, just how a defenseman's confidence in his own zone should improve with a stable goaltender who will not burn you with poor decision-making. (hint.)