Muscle!

[Darth Milbury]

Anybody else concerned about our chronic lack of size? If you look at our top three centers (Grabo, Tavares, and Nielsen) we are pretty talented, but there isn't an ounce of aggression in the group. None of those guys are soft (I've seen JT sitting in front with guys hacking at his shins) but none are scary either.


In the top six, we maybe have Brock Nelson and Okposo as big physical specimens, but neither is particularly chippy.


In fact, in our top nine, I'd see that the only the much maligned Clutterbuck has got an physical edge.


On defense, the situation is even more dire. I was stunned by how physical Calvin de Haan has become, but he is still too small to be a mean hitter. Hickey and Vish are two of the only NHL players who would not be able to take me in a fist fight. Hamonic, despite his size, is not really a mean hitter. Right now, our most physical defender is probably Griffin Reinhart.


Doesn't seem like this issue has been addressed at all in the offseason.

Click to read more...

 

[Isles Junkie]

Anybody else concerned about our chronic lack of size? If you look at our top three centers (Grabo, Tavares, and Nielsen) we are pretty talented, but there isn't an ounce of aggression in the group. None of those guys are soft (I've seen JT sitting in front with guys hacking at his shins) but none are scary either.


In the top six, we maybe have Brock Nelson and Okposo as big physical specimens, but neither is particularly chippy.


In fact, in our top nine, I'd see that the only the much maligned Clutterbuck has got an physical edge.


On defense, the situation is even more dire. I was stunned by how physical Calvin de Haan has become, but he is still too small to be a mean hitter. Hickey and Vish are two of the only NHL players who would not be able to take me in a fist fight. Hamonic, despite his size, is not really a mean hitter. Right now, our most physical defender is probably Griffin Reinhart.


Doesn't seem like this issue has been addressed at all in the offseason.

Lineup needs more Kvasha & Isbister

Seriously though, I was under the impression that Kulemin had some snarl to his game.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

It is still a problem but they do seem to be replacing lightweights with heavyweights over time. If you look at what our defense will be in three years it will average 6'2" and 610 lbs approx and even a lightweight like CdH still has a physical edge...

The forwards have some room for improvement but getting the defense bigger is more important imo.

You are preaching to the choir Darth...

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

That's why i'm really hoping Lee sees NHL ice sooner than later. KO can battle in the corners and we do have Martin , but as far as size we are limited. Clutter & Martin will likely be our main source of physicality this season.

 

[Seph]

We did add Kulemin, who is not particularly tall, but is very stocky and strong, and he does lay the body pretty regularly. He is not a feared player either, of course, but on the Islanders only Clutterbuck is a more physical top 9 forward, IMO. So I would say that is an upgrade, albeit, a small one.

 

[bigd]

Sad to say but the league as a whole is getting less physical. It won't be long before guys like Boulton and Carkner are legislated right out of the game.

 

[nc1972]

Light weight's

This has been a concern for some time now that and the lack of speed.
As mentioned previously it appears that it is being addressed but it will be some time before our prospect reach the NHL. Contrary to the opinion that the league is transitioning to a friendlier place for smaller players one needs only to look at the successful playoff teams. I've said it the past this team needs an upgrade in the snarl department and can we win a race to a lose puck once in a while.

 

[tag0519]

one word - Crossfit. Or is that two?

 

[PK Cronin]

This has been a concern for some time now that and the lack of speed.
As mentioned previously it appears that it is being addressed but it will be some time before our prospect reach the NHL. Contrary to the opinion that the league is transitioning to a friendlier place for smaller players one needs only to look at the successful playoff teams. I've said it the past this team needs an upgrade in the snarl department and can we win a race to a lose puck once in a while.

The Islanders are regarded around the league as one of the fastest teams in the NHL for the past couple seasons.



I think having a team willing to stick up for one another is more important than having specific guys who are going to be physical or do the fighting. The team needs to that 'snarl' to their game, and that includes Tavares, Okposo, Nielsen, etc. It's the ability to put the body on your opponent, and the ability to let them know they can't do whatever they want to do you because the team will respond. With that said, I do think that Strome has a mean streak when he's out there (from what I've seen, he'll jump into a scuffle without hesitation) and Nelson has a little bit there too. With more time, they might grow into that a bit more as they become more comfortable.

 

[Darth Milbury]

The Islanders are regarded around the league as one of the fastest teams in the NHL for the past couple seasons..

I don't think that is true at all. the only really fast skaters we have are Grabner and Nielsen. In terms of youth, Strome, Nelson, and Lee are all average to below average skaters. Among the core guys are mostly average skaters (JT, Okposo, Bailey) to below average (Clutterbuck, Martin).

I think having a team willing to stick up for one another is more important than having specific guys who are going to be physical or do the fighting. The team needs to that 'snarl' to their game, and that includes Tavares, Okposo, Nielsen, etc. It's the ability to put the body on your opponent, and the ability to let them know they can't do whatever they want to do you because the team will respond. With that said, I do think that Strome has a mean streak when he's out there (from what I've seen, he'll jump into a scuffle without hesitation) and Nelson has a little bit there too. With more time, they might grow into that a bit more as they become more comfortable.

Sticking up for each other and displaying grit is very important. But, at the end of the day, our forwards are going to bounce off of teams like Los Angeles and Boston. That's not to minimize the importance of the attributes you describe, just to say it is not enough.

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't think that is true at all. the only really fast skaters we have are Grabner and Nielsen. In terms of youth, Strome, Nelson, and Lee are all average to below average skaters. Among the core guys are mostly average skaters (JT, Okposo, Bailey) to below average (Clutterbuck, Martin).





Sticking up for each other and displaying grit is very important. But, at the end of the day, our forwards are going to bounce off of teams like Los Angeles and Boston. That's not to minimize the importance of the attributes you describe, just to say it is not enough.

The Blackhawks aren't particularly large if I recall, and they do quite well. Same with St. Louis, if I'm remembering correctly. Someone posted a graphic that had every team's average height and weight. It'd be a good time for someone to bring that back if they remember it.

 

[SI90]

Lineup needs more Kvasha & Isbister

Seriously though, I was under the impression that Kulemin had some snarl to his game.

Kulemin is an absolute tank.. Remember when he blasted Tavares?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thq5owZ718s


theres also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnFhrcqc59k
and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qICIksg6M3M
As far as Beef down the middle, I always thought Big Brock would eventually fill out and become our #2 Center. As of now the plan seems to keep him on the wing for awhile.

But that could change in a few years when Dal Colle is ready and Maybe Frans leaves via FA...

 

[Felix Unger]

I'm really unconcerned about the forwards. So long as these guys stick up for each other, there's not much to be worried about. Face it, NYI have an identity up front as a rush team. And that's okay.

One other thing - being a rush team isn't necessarily only about speed. It's about being able for one or two forwards to control the puck through the neutral zone while another gathers speed through the neutral zone. The ability to control the puck in the neutral zone, which is something Okposo and Nelson (at least) seem to excel at is even more important that speed.

The D is still a problem, however. Our D contain cycling forwards, they never can force the puck free. That's the MO for Hickey, De Haan, Visnovksy... Even Strait. Reinhart seems to rely on reach and position more than bang. Only Hamonic offers the change, and he can't do too much of it when playing 24 minutes per night.

 

[rikker]

It is still a problem but they do seem to be replacing lightweights with heavyweights over time. If you look at what our defense will be in three years it will average 6'2" and 610 lbs approx and even a lightweight like CdH still has a physical edge...

The forwards have some room for improvement but getting the defense bigger is more important imo.

You are preaching to the choir Darth...

i knew our D prospects were big, but THAT big? has Chuckie actually brought in sumo defencemen?

 

[19 in a row]

I am not overly concerned and feel that even if Lee does not start on the top 3 lines, he will still play a big role there this year once injuries and natural attrition/rest/slumps take place during the year (whether it be as a call up or as an extra forward). Okposo, Kulemin and Brock will provide some strength in the top 9 and for a change the other players we put out there will all have skillsets that I would rather have than just pure muscle.

I would disagree that Clutter is a top 9 on this team. IMO he will likely be a 4th liner this year where we will have some beef between he and Martin.

If we do need to matchup to bigger teams, I would think you will see Lee in there and maybe Clutter moving up in those situations which would give us as many as 5 decent size bodies to go with JT, Strome, Frans and Grabo (meaning both Bailey and Grabs sit/move to 4th line).

Either way I am really looking forward to the forwards this year as I believe we have more depth and legit NHL caliber players relative to prior years where we had some filler killing our 2nd & 3rd lines scoring punch.

 

[First Blood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsqRs8-n1FI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_YtxAthKg

 

[19 in a row]

I don't think that is true at all. the only really fast skaters we have are Grabner and Nielsen. In terms of youth, Strome, Nelson, and Lee are all average to below average skaters. Among the core guys are mostly average skaters (JT, Okposo, Bailey) to below average (Clutterbuck, Martin).

Kinda makes me wish we still had Ullstrom over here..maybe I was too enamored with his speed but he might have been a good guy to have as an extra forward..

 

[rikker]

we don't have enough snarl, or size, IMO.

getting better size-wise, with Lee, Reinhart, Pulock, Mayfield, Pelech, Church all becoming active soon.

but grit? ugh. we could still use Boulton for a year or two. sadly...

 

[Seph]

The Blackhawks aren't particularly large if I recall, and they do quite well. Same with St. Louis, if I'm remembering correctly. Someone posted a graphic that had every team's average height and weight. It'd be a good time for someone to bring that back if they remember it.

I was curious, and pulled up some numbers and made the attached chart showing teams' average height/weight (calculated by averaging their rankings in average height and average weight, and then re-ranking based on that average) and their regular season finish.

Honestly, there really isn't much correlation. Chicago, St Louis, Anaheim and Colorado are all very middle of the pack teams in terms of size, but finished very much towards the top in terms of season ranking. Of the teams in the bottom 8 in size, 5 of them made the playoffs, and two even achieved upsets in the playoffs. On the higher end of size, in the top 9 of size, 5 of them missed the playoffs, and teams like Tampa, Boston and San Jose were disappointing in the playoffs.

The numbers are from James Mirtle’s blog at http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/10/2013-14-nhl-teams-by-height-weight-and.html

But then again, I don't think anyone truly questioned that actual size will always be secondary to how big you play.

 

[seafoam]

I'm not really concerned at all.

People need to stop treating the LA Kings like the holy grail of the NHL (I'm looking at you Darth).

They were one game away from being swept by the Sharks. Their size didn't get them all the way to the Stanley Cup. Their willpower, motivation, and experience of having been there before did.

Also, I'm not even sure if the Rangers make the playoffs+advance to the SCF without Lundqvist playing at his highest level.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

i knew our D prospects were big, but THAT big? has Chuckie actually brought in sumo defencemen?

Reinhart 6'4" 217
Hamonic 6'2" 209
CdH 6'1" 187
Pulock 6'2" 212
Pokka 6'0" 214
Pedan 6'5" 213
Pelech 6'3" 220
Mayfield 6'5" 218

Average Ht: 6' 2"+
Average Wt: 211+ lbs
Shocking fact: some of these numbers are draft numbers meaning, they will be bigger than this.

And some of those guys can lay the body just fine but it is almost unnecessary as long as they aren't complete Marys like Wishart. The defense in a few years will be referred to like the buzz saw, or the meat grinder, or whatever. It will be a very unpleasant place to be if you are an opposition forward. It is just too bad this group came late in the game. They are more important than Tavares, to be perfectly honest with you.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I was curious, and pulled up some numbers and made the attached chart showing teams' average height/weight (calculated by averaging their rankings in average height and average weight, and then re-ranking based on that average) and their regular season finish.

Honestly, there really isn't much correlation. Chicago, St Louis, Anaheim and Colorado are all very middle of the pack teams in terms of size, but finished very much towards the top in terms of season ranking. Of the teams in the bottom 8 in size, 5 of them made the playoffs, and two even achieved upsets in the playoffs. On the higher end of size, in the top 9 of size, 5 of them missed the playoffs, and teams like Tampa, Boston and San Jose were disappointing in the playoffs.

The numbers are from James Mirtle’s blog at http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/10/2013-14-nhl-teams-by-height-weight-and.html

But then again, I don't think anyone truly questioned that actual size will always be secondary to how big you play.

Numbers also require some context. Ty Wishart was 6'4" and 215#. He was also like limp pizza physically. There is no doubt that some amount of skill in using size has to be part of the equation. In contrast Vis is a small fry, as is Hickey, but they outplay bigger defensemen regularly. In general though if you give me above average defensemen with a couple of minute eaters who are big and I give you a solid blueline. Size matters, and in the matter of stick reach aka area of coverage the taller a defenseman is the longer his stick is. There is a personal touch to stick length, certainly not a constant metric of player x ht = stick length y, but generally the taller the player the longer the stick without it causing puck handling issues. In smaller defensemen many try to compensate with a longer stick but their puck control suffers from it - hello AMac. Because reach is that important on defense. I will go back to my well of Pronger and MacInnis. They were one of the most perfect defensive pairs I ever saw live or in film (includes our teams, Habs, etc.) and one important piece of that was their ability to take away huge areas of ice because they were tall, mobile, had long sticks, and were REALLY good at using them and knowing how to hide their reach until they needed to extend to break up a pass or poke a puck on a rush. And of course Pronger would squish people, effectively, which is part of this as well.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I'm thinking anything more than Boulton, Martin, Clutterbuck, Carkner, and Hamonic plus maybe occasionally Brett Gallant is a bit much. Sure, no clearcut regularly winning fighter there, but you can only have so much muscle in the line-up at any one time.

That said, we aren't always the toughest team. Still think playing tough is more important than just having pure muscle.

 

[stranger34]

I'm not really concerned about it. We have fighters and players who stick up for each other and our 2nd line will be tougher to play against with kulemin and grabo. Our D is still too small but we've known that for a while. There are a lot softer teams in the league than the Isles.

 

[Jester9881]

When toughness is needed, you will see Carkner and/or Boulton in the lineup.