Proposal: MTL-VAN or MTL-STL (MTL taking a cap dump)

[elitepete]

Hey there.

As you probably all know, Montreal will have some cap space going into next offseason and I really hope they can take advantage of it, just like they did with the Armia trade.

St.Louis is definitely a team that need to shed some salary to be able to re-sign Alex Pietrangelo and Vince Dunn.

Vancouver is another team who would benefit from dumping a contract. To re-sign Markstorm, yes, and to try to get better for next season.

So, I'd be curious what Vancouver and St.Louis fans would be willing to give to the Habs so they take on Bozak's contract or Sutter's contract.

Bozak = 1 year left @ 5,000,000$
Sutter = 1 year left @ 4,375,000$

What I had in mind was Tyler Bozak + Klim Kostin or Sammy Blais vs a 4th round pick or Brandon Sutter + Kole Lind + 2nd round pick vs a 3rd round pick.

What about that, Blues & Nucks fans? Would you do that? Or it's too much? Any counter?

Thanks!

I would consider it from a canucks pov

 

[stl76]

I’d trade you Bozak for Ian Cole. Straight hockey trade.

You know Bozak is actually a useful hockey player, right?

 

[McJedi]

You know Bozak is actually a useful hockey player, right?

As a forward, he had all of two more points than Cole (with a few games in hand) this season and a hell of a lot more -.

He ain’t that useful. The market for 34 year old bottom six forwards making a $5mm dent in the cap isn’t large. It’s probably counted on one hand. Maybe with just one finger.

by all means, feel free to keep his 5mm AAV on your cap.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Would probably be ok with Bozak + Kostin for our 2nd back.


Some things people don’t understand about Bozak. He can play defense. He is a good faceoff man, he was good for us on the pk, and like Steen he is a very good role player at making life easier for his linemates. He’s not a superstar by any means but he was a very valuable piece on a cup winning team. Contract certainly isn’t ideal, but the notion of bickering over a guy being a cap dump or not is a bit ridiculous. Would be a great 2/3C for a lot of teams around the league, including the Blues.

 

[Colt55]

Would probably be ok with Bozak + Kostin for our 2nd back.


Some things people don’t understand about Bozak. He can play defense. He is a good faceoff man, he was good for us on the pk, and like Steen he is a very good role player at making life easier for his linemates. He’s not a superstar by any means but he was a very valuable piece on a cup winning team. Contract certainly isn’t ideal, but the notion of bickering over a guy being a cap dump or not is a bit ridiculous. Would be a great 2/3C for a lot of teams around the league, including the Blues.

I think this is the year kostin breaks out. He had a bounce back ahl year looked solid. Just turned 21.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Sutter is slightly overpaid but I share Bennings optimism. He is not a cap dump and Vancouver would not pay Kole Lind to get rid of him.

I'd explore a package of Virtanen and Sutter for something.

Or Baertschi + Gadjovich/Lockwood

Not necessarily to the winger heavy Habs though.

Just because Toronto overpaid a first for Marleau shouldnt mean that teams should pay a ton to get rid of cap like that. These asking prices are getting ridiculous. We aren't including Eriksson who is a legit cap dump.

I mean, it’s not like Lind is very good. Might play a handful of NHL games if he’s lucky. Dime/dozen prospect.

Not a huge cost at all to save some cap space.

 

[Qwijibo]

Sutter is slightly overpaid but I share Bennings optimism. He is not a cap dump and Vancouver would not pay Kole Lind to get rid of him.

I'd explore a package of Virtanen and Sutter for something.

Or Baertschi + Gadjovich/Lockwood

Not necessarily to the winger heavy Habs though.

Just because Toronto overpaid a first for Marleau shouldnt mean that teams should pay a ton to get rid of cap like that. These asking prices are getting ridiculous. We aren't including Eriksson who is a legit cap dump.

Toronto paid they price BEFORE the cap got set to level for at least 3 years. If anything the price of dumping cap problems should be higher. Don’t want to pay a premium for cap dumps. That’s fair. Your alternatives are try to find another way to manufacture cap space or chose which UFA’s and RFA’s you want to part with. No one is going to do you any favours right now

 

[sfvega]

I think this is the year kostin breaks out. He had a bounce back ahl year looked solid. Just turned 21.

I think I would trade Blais before Kostin, but neither to move Bozak. Our forward depth is shallow, and our prospects are even more shallow. Doesn't mKe a ton of sense to use our best forward prospect to get rid of a top 9 forward.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Toronto paid they price BEFORE the cap got set to level for at least 3 years. If anything the price of dumping cap problems should be higher. Don’t want to pay a premium for cap dumps. That’s fair. Your alternatives are try to find another way to manufacture cap space or chose which UFA’s and RFA’s you want to part with. No one is going to do you any favours right now

The difference with Marleau that many people fail to mention is that Carolina received no benefit in that trade, they were simply given a bill to pay for buying out his contract. In the case of Sutter or Bozak, both of these guys are still players that can contribute, they’re just grossly overpaid. It’s not inconceivable that a team acquiring them could receive compensation for taking them, put them into their lineup for the year and then move them for another asset at the deadline. That wasn’t the case with Marleau. It was basically a $4M payment, $6.25M cap hit, and no production whatsoever.

 

[rumrokh]

I think I would trade Blais before Kostin, but neither to move Bozak. Our forward depth is shallow, and our prospects are even more shallow. Doesn't mKe a ton of sense to use our best forward prospect to get rid of a top 9 forward.

If you're pretty high on the 2nd round this year and low on those guys, it could be worth it. I almost always prefer the developed player who still has more potential to the guy who won't make an impact for a few years at least. I'm all for continuing to build the team, even while contending, but A LOT can change in the span of time it takes for nearly all 2nd rounders to be impact players. Three years ago, Anaheim, San Jose, and Los Angeles were playoff teams and the Islanders, Blues, and Stars all missed.

If you deal your young players for younger players because you're only looking that far out, you end up having to sign even worse contracts in free agency to stay good in the meantime. Even if Kostin doesn't hit his potential, it's far more important to get something out of him while he's cost controlled, then flip him for a mid-round pick when he's just okay, and then use that pick to trade up.

 

[Qwijibo]

The difference with Marleau that many people fail to mention is that Carolina received no benefit in that trade, they were simply given a bill to pay for buying out his contract. In the case of Sutter or Bozak, both of these guys are still players that can contribute, they’re just grossly overpaid. It’s not inconceivable that a team acquiring them could receive compensation for taking them, put them into their lineup for the year and then move them for another asset at the deadline. That wasn’t the case with Marleau. It was basically a $4M payment, $6.25M cap hit, and no production whatsoever.

Sure. But even that is a little too simplistic diagnosis. You’re not factoring in the production of the player who’s slot Marleau would have taken if he hadn’t been bought out. So really the only way you can count “production” is if the player acquired is a clear upgrade in the player currently on the team. I’ll agree that every situation is different and 1 trade doesn’t automatically set the bar for the next. Surely you recognize that with the new economic reality in the NHL the cost of dumping ineffective players with overblown cap hits has increased dramatically

 

[Canuck Luck]

Roussel has 3 years remaining on a 3AAV contract. Habs aren’t touching that due to term.

It’s 2 more years at 3M AAV. The contract isn’t even that bad. It’s the fact we have so many. He’s one of the last players on our team making 3M or more I’d trade. He produces as a high end 3rd liner, agitates, and is defensively sound.

We can’t take on unnecessary cap past next season. Roussel is the epitomy of unnecessary cap. He’s a 4th liner on a 3M contract.

How is a guy that averages 29 points per 82 games a 4th liner? You realize that would put him in the top 10-20 out of 93 3rd liners there should be in the league right? 3M for what he brings is market value. You don’t have to look far for a comparable player. Artturi lehkonen. Guess he must be a 4th liner too? Y’all seem fine paying 2.4M for a guy that compares very similarly to this “4th liner”, including their salaries even though one guy was a ufa and the other a rfa

 

[sfvega]

If you're pretty high on the 2nd round this year and low on those guys, it could be worth it. I almost always prefer the developed player who still has more potential to the guy who won't make an impact for a few years at least. I'm all for continuing to build the team, even while contending, but A LOT can change in the span of time it takes for nearly all 2nd rounders to be impact players. Three years ago, Anaheim, San Jose, and Los Angeles were playoff teams and the Islanders, Blues, and Stars all missed.

If you deal your young players for younger players because you're only looking that far out, you end up having to sign even worse contracts in free agency to stay good in the meantime. Even if Kostin doesn't hit his potential, it's far more important to get something out of him while he's cost controlled, then flip him for a mid-round pick when he's just okay, and then use that pick to trade up.

I still think Kostin could be a top 6 forward down the line, but Blais I feel like the fanbase has higher hopes for him than I ever see coming to fruition. Outside of hitting everything that moves, I just don't see a ton in his game. But use Blais to deal Bozak for a pick seems a bit nonsensical.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I think this is the year kostin breaks out. He had a bounce back ahl year looked solid. Just turned 21.

Yeah maybe, I think he’s a good player and prospect. I think it’s more or less where does he fit in the future outlook of the group?

 

[Colt55]

Yeah maybe, I think he’s a good player and prospect. I think it’s more or less where does he fit in the future outlook of the group?

With tarasenko gone and him being a right wing I would imagine second line. I know this would never happen but a kid line of the following would be awesome.

Kyrou Thomas kostin.

Two speed guys and a power forward.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The post I was responding too said he's still a good starter and my post you quoted says he wouldn't get good starter value. He got a third, which is what a decent backup would return. There's also the fact he's a completely different person from tyler bozak, so maybe don't spike the football quite yet.

I would say that MB overpaid considering the cap situation. We should have probably got a pick back instead of giving one up, but we've had 35 draft picks the last 3 years, so giving up our 6th best in the upcoming draft means nothing too us. Given that all the talk is that the season will be very compressed I understand overpaying to get a goalie that can be relied upon to keep price fresh. I don't, however, see any GM sitting at home wondering where they can overpay for a 3c that can't defend or put up points.

At the time, you believed the Blues would have to attach something to him or at best in a situation where Allen went on a crazy run, he'd still get just a 5th.

You only believe Allen is better because you traded for him and Binnington had a rough restart like 95% of our team.

 

[stl76]

As a forward, he had all of two more points than Cole (with a few games in hand) this season and a hell of a lot more -.

He ain’t that useful. The market for 34 year old bottom six forwards making a $5mm dent in the cap isn’t large. It’s probably counted on one hand. Maybe with just one finger.

by all means, feel free to keep his 5mm AAV on your cap.

Yeah, because the Blues’ only options are trade for Ian f***ing Cole or keep Bozak’s full $5M AAV on our cap.

The Blues drafted Cole. We have watched him play plenty, we know who he is as a player. The Blues have zero use for Cole with our current lineup, whereas Bozak is actually a very useful player for us.

Tell me more about Ian Cole’s fluke career year on one of the top offenses in the league tho...

EDIT: I originally misunderstood what you meant by “a hell of a lot more -“ but lol @ using +/- to compare players on different teams playing very different positions and situations.

 

[Fatass]

Canucks are keeping Sutter. According to Benning “Sutter is a core piece”.

 

[Michoulicious]

Canucks are keeping Sutter. According to Benning “Sutter is a core piece”.

He really said that? Gosh.

 

[McJedi]

Yeah, because the Blues’ only options are trade for Ian f***ing Cole or keep Bozak’s full $5M AAV on our cap.

The Blues drafted Cole. We have watched him play plenty, we know who he is as a player. The Blues have zero use for Cole with our current lineup, whereas Bozak is actually a very useful player for us.

Tell me more about Ian Cole’s fluke career year on one of the top offenses in the league tho...

EDIT: I originally misunderstood what you meant by “a hell of a lot more -“ but lol @ using +/- to compare players on different teams playing very different positions and situations.

You’re sorely mistaken if you think there is a big market for Bozak. There is zero market for him if the Lou doesn’t take back a not desirable contract from another team.

your options with Bozak are two. Keep him or trade him for another teams bad contract. That’s it. There is no deal for futures. No deal for better players on a better contract.

Bozak, just like Ian Cole, is a negative value contract.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You’re sorely mistaken if you think there is a big market for Bozak. There is zero market for him if the Lou doesn’t take back a not desirable contract from another team.

your options with Bozak are two. Keep him or trade him for another teams bad contract. That’s it. There is no deal for futures. No deal for better players on a better contract.

Bozak, just like Ian Cole, is a negative value contract.

Same was said about Allen, and we can still buy him out if we'd prefer to do that.

 

[abo9]

I can understand not getting anything for him...but we're sure not giving anyone Kostin or Blais in order to take Bozak....he's still a good player. Any team that has no cap issues would probably love to have him.

I think people forget quickly that Mason was quite literally deadweight. He was bought out and retired. I assume Winnipeg also had an urgent need for that cap space.

 

[Blues0307]

Wow, that's horrible for the Blues

 

[Colt55]

You’re sorely mistaken if you think there is a big market for Bozak. There is zero market for him if the Lou doesn’t take back a not desirable contract from another team.

your options with Bozak are two. Keep him or trade him for another teams bad contract. That’s it. There is no deal for futures. No deal for better players on a better contract.

Bozak, just like Ian Cole, is a negative value contract.

Well what about Jake Allen. Also if thier is not a market for bozak then why is he in trade rumors for edm. Also a 2/3 c putting up 30 40 pts. And is defensively sound defiantly is a need for some teams. If anything he is over paid by .5 to 1 mil. To say he has negative value is just wrong. We can also just buy him out.

 

[McJedi]

Same was said about Allen, and we can still buy him out if we'd prefer to do that.

no It wasn’t. Totally different scenario.

Allen is solid goalie. Nice player and reasonable contract. He’ll start 20+ games for Montreal.

Bozak is an aging overpaid bottom six winger. There is NO market for this. Teams want ELCs and younger players in this role.