Confirmed with Link: [MTL] Karl Alzner (5 years, $4.625M AAV)

[Runner77]

Again man, here you are criticizing this signing.

Who was Bergevin supposed to sign this summer to make you happy?

Again, you're going to bat for a defensive defenseman that is overpaid and has too much term. I don't like the signing, it's my prerogative.

I take it you like it? Enjoy.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Again man, here you are criticizing this signing.

Who was Bergevin supposed to sign this summer to make you happy?

Great Drouin trade, follow it up with Radulov re-signing and Bonino signing. Be the highest bidder on those two.

Keep Beaulieu, keep Emelin, pick up Schlemko and Morrow, sacrifice Davidson for VGK to take Plekanec.

Super-solid lineup.

 

[Runner77]

Great Drouin trade, follow it up with Radulov re-signing and Bonino signing. BE the highest bidder on those two.

Keep Beaulieu, keep Emelin, pick up Schlemko and Morrow, sacrifice Davidson for VGK to take Plekanec.

Super-solid lineup.

Not as high on Bonino but given what we have at C, I like your take on this and the players you chose to favor. Alzner is a knee-jerk reaction to losing one year of Emelin, should have been avoided.

 

[Belial]

Great Drouin trade, follow it up with Radulov re-signing and Bonino signing. Be the highest bidder on those two.

Keep Beaulieu, keep Emelin, pick up Schlemko and Morrow, sacrifice Davidson for VGK to take Plekanec.

Super-solid lineup.

Bonino picked Nashville, Radulov picked Dallas.

Bonino is not an mega upgrade on Plekanec IMO.

Beaulieu was so goooone after he was scratched in the PO, it was obvious he was not going to be back.

Alzner>Emelin IMO.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Bonino picked Nashville, Radulov picked Dallas.

Bonino is not an mega upgrade on Plekanec IMO.

Beaulieu was so goooone after he was scratched in the PO, it was obvious he was not going to be back.

Alzner>Emelin IMO.

I would have offered Bonino more, if he still wanted Nashville, fine.

I would have seduced Radulov rather than fight him, probably could have been had.

Alzner may be better than Emelin, though I am pretty sure Emelin can open jars, but Alzner costs more and is on the books for 4 extra years.

It was a mistake to bench Beaulieu for Davidson, but we didn't need to make things worse by trading him for an insufficient return.

I'd rather overpay a bit for offence than for plugging defensive holes.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

How Bergevin utilizes the remaining 9 MILLION we have to spend is how this offseason will be judged. Drouin trade was fantastic. Losing Radulov sucks, but realistically it's 50/50 that contract woulda came back and bit us in the ass. Alzner, Jerabek, and Schlemko were all solid adds on D. Hemsky was a solid add. Galchenyuk kept on a show me deal is solid. The Price signing is tough to swallow but had to be done (you really prepared to let him walk next year?). We had a great draft. All this doom and gloom is pretty embarrassing to be honest...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I would have offered Bonino more, if he still wanted Nashville, fine.

I would have seduced Radulov rather than fight him, probably could have been had.

Alzner may be better than Emelin, though I am pretty sure Emelin can open jars, but Alzner costs more and is on the books for 4 extra years.

It was a mistake to bench Beaulieu for Davidson, but we didn't need to make things worse by trading him for an insufficient return.

I'd rather overpay a bit for offence than for plugging defensive holes.

Seduced him with what? Vodka? ******? Otherwise we are talking straight cash, and he's pocketing more with Dallas.

 

[Runner77]

I love all the Radulov downside risk once the guy has left the building. An asset that is lost for nothing is what ultimately bites you in the ass.

 

[groovejuice]

Seduced him with what? Vodka? ******? Otherwise we are talking straight cash, and he's pocketing more with Dallas.

It's hard to know for certain, but Bergevin certainly appeared at least somewhat antagonistic during his PC. I don't doubt this would have carried over into negotiations. He's a hardass with many of his top players while kissy-kissy with the rank and file. Nickle and diming one's best players is a poor strategy.

 

[webersshot]

I think this is a very underrated pick up. I think we're going to really appreciate this guy

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I love all the Radulov downside risk once the guy has left the building. An asset that is lost for nothing is what ultimately bites you in the ass.

They say the moment a player signs with the highest bidder in FA, the contract is untradeable. I wanted Radulov back, but giving a 31 year old forward with a questionable history a 6 year deal (what it would have taken to lock him up before July 1st) would likely actually bite us in the ass.

 

[groovejuice]

They say the moment a player signs with the highest bidder in FA, the contract is untradeable. I wanted Radulov back, but giving a 31 year old forward with a questionable history a 6 year deal (what it would have taken to lock him up before July 1st) would likely actually bite us in the ass.

So it's okay to overpay a middling player of Shaw's ilk by 20%, but not one of your best players? We know Radulov would have signed for 5 years. Had Bergevin sweetened the salary and been more respectful we'd have Drouin and Radulov. Hubris bites Bergie yet again.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So it's okay to overpay a middling player of Shaw's ilk by 20%, but not one of your best players? We know Radulov would have signed for 5 years. Had Bergevin sweetened the salary and been more respectful we'd have Drouin and Radulov. Hubris bites Bergie yet again.

Shaws not going to decline during his contract. Radulov is.

My point though is let's see what he does with the cap space. If he can use it to acquire a top 6 C then it'll be a net gain.

 

[groovejuice]

Shaws not going to decline during his contract. Radulov is.

My point though is let's see what he does with the cap space. If he can use it to acquire a top 6 C then it'll be a net gain.

Shaw has had multiple concussions. You can't possibly know he's not declining even now. Radulov isn't likely to fall off a cliff and highly skilled players are much more worth the risk.

 

[Belial]

I would have offered Bonino more, if he still wanted Nashville, fine.

I would have seduced Radulov rather than fight him, probably could have been had.

Alzner may be better than Emelin, though I am pretty sure Emelin can open jars, but Alzner costs more and is on the books for 4 extra years.

It was a mistake to bench Beaulieu for Davidson, but we didn't need to make things worse by trading him for an insufficient return.

I'd rather overpay a bit for offence than for plugging defensive holes.

You mean just like he seduced him last year? He suddenly lost his charm and charisma?

This is so obvious Radulov used Montreal to get a long-term contract somewhere else...

Alzner makes only 500K more than Emelin and he's still young, come on now...

Beaulieu was benched because he's not serious about his career.

It's hard to know for certain, but Bergevin certainly appeared at least somewhat antagonistic during his PC. I don't doubt this would have carried over into negotiations. He's a hardass with many of his top players while kissy-kissy with the rank and file. Nickle and diming one's best players is a poor strategy.

Can we stop with this bs please?

Pricex2? Pacioretty? Gallagher? Galchenyuk? Markov? Petry? Alzner? Radulov?

The only guy he had real troubles dealing with is Subban! But he apparently lowballs everybody for the rest of his life now...

 

[Price is Wright]

I've been reading many posts from the Caps board and I'm scared, if we are counting on this guy to anchor our top 4 we are in trouble.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

Oh he's going to be terrible, but few will admit it. There's that one tweet with cherry picked stats and everyone being AOK with him having next to zero offensive skill and clearly having played injured to keep up a useless iron man streak.

It's okay, Shea Weber will waste his ability covering for him all year.

 

[groovejuice]

You mean just like he seduced him last year? He suddenly lost his charm and charisma?

This is so obvious Radulov used Montreal to get a long-term contract somewhere else...

Alzner makes only 500K more than Emelin and he's still young, come on now...

Beaulieu was benched because he's not serious about his career.




Can we stop with this bs please?

Pricex2? Pacioretty? Gallagher? Galchenyuk? Markov? Petry? Alzner? Radulov?

The only guy he had real troubles dealing with is Subban! But he apparently lowballs everybody for the rest of his life now...

I didn't use the word or imply lowball. I implied Bergevin had a very poor sense of judgement when it comes to overpaying players. You pay more for the difficult to replace players, you know, the ones that win you hockey games, not the dime a dozen journeymen.

 

[Belial]

I didn't use the word or imply lowball. I implied Bergevin had a very poor sense of judgement when it comes to overpaying players. You pay more for the difficult to replace players, you know, the ones that win you hockey games, not the dime a dozen journeymen.

You want your GM to overpay players... Sounds like a great plan.

 

[groovejuice]

You want your GM to overpay players... Sounds like a great plan.

Sometimes you do to overpay in order to keep an important piece. That's part of the business. That's why you don't overpay 3rd liners. You already know this, but your zeal to protect Bergevin outweighs your good sense.

 

[Kriss E]

You want your GM to overpay players... Sounds like a great plan.

Pretty much every team is going to overpay for some players. The reality of the NHL.
You just have to hope that whoever you do it on ends up being worth it.

 

[The Great Weal]

Again man, here you are criticizing this signing.

Who was Bergevin supposed to sign this summer to make you happy?

Trevor Daley is much better and cheaper

 

[Runner77]

They say the moment a player signs with the highest bidder in FA, the contract is untradeable. I wanted Radulov back, but giving a 31 year old forward with a questionable history a 6 year deal (what it would have taken to lock him up before July 1st) would likely actually bite us in the ass.

What has a questionable history is the Habs' ability to add and retain offence. Everyone knows that in any long term deal with players who are 30 plus, there will be some part of the term where the player won't be at his best and will regress. The Habs are on win now mode, Radulov is a first line player who actually showed up in the playoffs and would have been at his best when it counts. Now his departure will cause the Hab to lose an asset in order to replace him, whereas he could have been had for free, which is the ultimate ass-biting. Based on the argument that Radulov is 31 and getting a deal, what age will Price be when his deal starts? Price suffered a major injury within the past 2 years and wasn't at his best during this year's playoffs, will he better when his current deal ends? Won't it be ass-biting? No long term deals are viewed from the perception of how the player may or will regress in the closing years of the deal, management looks at it from the standpoint of the best years the player has to give.

Radulov was a net loss for Bergevin, negating the excellent job he had done by acquiring Drouin. It's back to square one, the offense is missing a critical piece, something the Habs don't have in their system and which is very difficult to acquire on the market. This has been a summer of sideway moves at best for Bergevin and smacks of a whole lot of improvisation and poor planning, something that also bites you in the ass just as much as losing Radulov.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You mean just like he seduced him last year? He suddenly lost his charm and charisma?

This is so obvious Radulov used Montreal to get a long-term contract somewhere else...

Maybe you don't mean it that way, but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

Players can't hide their emotions so easily. When we all saw how Radulov reacted when a teammate scored an important goal, his enthusiasm was bubbling over.

This is NOT the way a guy just playing for a contract would act.

Now, let's go to that press conference again. What GM acts like that in public, where people are usually somewhat diplomatic, unless he is being at LEAST as hardass in private.

It's unprecedented. The Habs have NEVER failed to come to terms with Andrei Markov. The guy had Habs jerseys all over his wedding, for Chrissakes. What's next? Saying "it's so obvious that Markov just wanted a long-term contract and was only using Montreal"?

No, the consequences of hardball tactics are on Bergevin, whether positive or negative. Perhaps we can live without Markov this year, but to lose BOTH Markov and Radulov from an often sputtering offence that needed BOOSTING and not abandonment, is highly, highly risky. Marc played with fire here, that is what is "obvious".

When Radulov wanted six years, Marc offered five, got pissed that "the agent wasn't getting it" and so as of July 1, he dropped his offer to four years, and initially felt vindicated when Dallas was also at four.

So now, they were in endgame. Habs took the inflexible route, take it or leave it, first come first served, and DEMANDED "loyalty". Dallas took the flexible route and offered a fifth year. Radulov accepted, and Habs were advised. Bergevin realized they he was being outbid and at the last second tried to match, thinking that Radulov's love of Montreal would win out, but didn't realize that his tactics killed the love, and now it was cold hard cash, and Radulov was not going to go back on his word to take less after-tax money from a team that no longer felt special in his heart.

In the end, negotiations are often about feelings and perceptions.

Karl Alzner talked about how he felt a good vibe from the minute he landed in Montreal. That is real, that is how he already had the Habs first in heart before the race started. Same with Radulov the year before. Bergevin romanced him and it worked. Then the next year Bergevin turns into Mr. Hyde and look at how the result differed.

As fans, we had no input other than witnessing the train wreck, but we have to just accept that, and there is no call for us to start crapping on the players who are gone (Subban, Beaulieu, Emelin, Radulov, Markov) so that we can feel like the GM knows what he is doing, and not question our fandom.

 

[WG]

Again man, here you are criticizing this signing.

Who was Bergevin supposed to sign this summer to make you happy?

It wasn't that hard. Just sign his own guys. Don't sign an unnecessary player in Alzner. Just about everything up to the Expansion draft was OK, though I'd have preferred keeping Beaulieu. But for argument, he's gone.

1. Sign Shipachev. Yes, you'll say as you always do "Bergy cannot force them to sign here, he chose Vegas, poor Marc" and so forth. Shipachev signed for 2 @ 4.5. It was easily within Bergy's power to beat that. Let's go with a third year at 4.5.

2. Drouin trade, good. Emelin out, Schlemko in. Good.

3. Sign Radu 5 @6.25 (the contract he came back to MB with around uly 3). Hell, even go 5 @ 6.5 to get it done. Sign Markov, 1 @ 6 or 2 @ 10.

Bonus, if we were really going to go nuts, then trade Max and go get a proper top 6 C, I had proposed Max somewhere for a D prospect and picks, then flip that for Duchene but that's only one way.

Max-Ship-Radu
Drouin-Galch-Lehk


(or Galch-Duchene-Radu
Drouin-Ship-Lehk)
Byron-Plek-Gally
Mitchell-Danault-Shaw

Markov, Weber, Petry, Schlemko, Benn, Davidson/Jerebek/depth signing.

Keep your good players. Two pickups at areas of need. Don't sign another boat anchor to the Alexei Emelin island of overpaid contracts. Voila.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Shaws not going to decline during his contract. Radulov is.

My point though is let's see what he does with the cap space. If he can use it to acquire a top 6 C then it'll be a net gain.

It is fundamentally true that Shawful won't decline during his contract as once you are the worst player in the league on one of the worst long term contracts in the league relative to worth.. you can't really decline when you're at rock bottom.

Bergevin, what a genius.