Confirmed with Link: [MTL] Karl Alzner (5 years, $4.625M AAV)

[overlords]

He's much better than Georges.

captain of your high school debate club, I see.

And the bonus misspelling of Gorges*. Always funny that one can have such a strong opinion of a player by (presumably) watching them over several years yet somehow never commit to memory the 6 letters of their family name.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Nobody seems willing to give Alzner a chance. He has yet to step foot on the ice as a Hab and people are already saying that he sucks...c'mon people.

It's not like we broke the bank for him or traded away quality pieces. Sure he isn't flashy and he probably won't put up more than 25 points, but he's a pretty damn solid shutdown defenseman and quite frankly, I'd so much rather have Alzner in the top-4 than Emelin. Add in to the fact that Alzner isn't making much more than Emelin was, and you've got yourself a clear, cost-effective upgrade.

Now I'm not saying that we couldn't use some more skill on the blueline, we definitely can, BUT the fact of the matter is that we are a better team with Alzner playing 18-20 minutes a game than Emelin playing those minutes.

25 points is insanely optimistic for defensive defenseman that has exceeded 20 points exactly twice in his career. 15 points is more reasonable expectation. And both Schlemko and Benn make the team better than Emelin too. That's not high praise.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Note that there are no ''just wait and see what Alzner can do for us'' when people start putting him on a first pairing that doesn't include Weber. As if Weber needs sheltering for the playoffs. Hell, Alzner has never averaged anywhere close to as many minutes as Weber has.

Alzner was uncontroversially not good at hockey last year extending into the playoffs. Why don't we ''wait and see'' if he's going to be able to recover from that?

Because if he's not we're in some deep ****.

 

[Runner77]

If we're getting 2016 Alzner, then it's quite an upgrade over Emelin, who didn't provide either offense or defense.

Alzner is no offensive juggernaut. Had 13 points last year in 82 games. Emelin who didn't provide offense when compared to Alzner, had 10 points in 76 games. What an upgrade.

It's a shiny new toy syndrome. For months, posters were only looking to dump Emelin's contract cause they claimed he was overpaid, even though it was winding down. But now, the new guy is better than him, can barely score more than him but let's disregard that Alzner comes with a lot of warts, is overpaid over a much longer period than Emelin and is basically a defensive defensemen who block shots and this is not where most teams are rushing to sign long term deals.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Alzner is no offensive juggernaut. Had 13 points last year in 82 games. Emelin who didn't provide offense when compared to Alzner, had 10 points in 76 games. What an upgrade.

It's a shiny new toy syndrome. For months, posters were only looking to dump Emelin's contract cause they claimed he was overpaid, even though it was winding down. But now, the new guy is better than him, can barely score more than him but let's disregard that Alzner comes with a lot of warts, is overpaid over a much longer period than Emelin and is basically a defensive defensemen who block shots and this is not where most teams are rushing to sign long term deals.

No one is debating that Alzner is better than Emelin offensively, what we're debating is that he's better defensively which is definitely an opinion that can be supported.

 

[CauZuki]

That's what I would do as well.

Alzner-Petry would be my #1 pairing for TOI. They can matchup against opponents top lines, and play the first team PK. Let those 2 eat the majority of the tough minutes.

I think this would allow us to have Schlemko, Jerabek, or perhaps even Markov play with Weber on the 2nd pairing. Taking the load off Weber defensively in the regular season will help us come playoff time.

It's a nice thought but there is no way CJ doesn't use Weber in every situation regardless of his left side partner.

Note that there are no ''just wait and see what Alzner can do for us'' when people start putting him on a first pairing that doesn't include Weber. As if Weber needs sheltering for the playoffs. Hell, Alzner has never averaged anywhere close to as many minutes as Weber has.

Alzner was uncontroversially not good at hockey last year extending into the playoffs. Why don't we ''wait and see'' if he's going to be able to recover from that?

Because if he's not we're in some deep ****.

I agree but it's a tough opinion to have on a forum where 99% of the discussions are hypothetical scenarios that will most likely never happen.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Note that there are no ''just wait and see what Alzner can do for us'' when people start putting him on a first pairing that doesn't include Weber. As if Weber needs sheltering for the playoffs. Hell, Alzner has never averaged anywhere close to as many minutes as Weber has.

Alzner was uncontroversially not good at hockey last year extending into the playoffs. Why don't we ''wait and see'' if he's going to be able to recover from that?

Because if he's not we're in some deep ****.

The guy is an ironman who was playing through injuries. The sample size before last season is much greater. It basically comes down to this:

Perspective A: Alzner will not recover from his hand and groin injuries, and at age 28 has begun to decline.

Perspective B: Alzner is going to recover from the hand and groin injuries, and be the quality top 4 Dman he has been for the Habs these next 5 years.

 

[Andrei79]

Alzner is no offensive juggernaut. Had 13 points last year in 82 games. Emelin who didn't provide offense when compared to Alzner, had 10 points in 76 games. What an upgrade.

It's a shiny new toy syndrome. For months, posters were only looking to dump Emelin's contract cause they claimed he was overpaid, even though it was winding down. But now, the new guy is better than him, can barely score more than him but let's disregard that Alzner comes with a lot of warts, is overpaid over a much longer period than Emelin and is basically a defensive defensemen who block shots and this is not where most teams are rushing to sign long term deals.

Look, I'm not saying Alzner provides offense or more than Emelin, and I'll add I'm not even sure how came up with that conclusion from my post, but since he doesn't provide offense, nor drives the play forward, he's at least positionnally sound and provides, when healthy, solid if unspectacular defensive play.

Emelin not only provides no offense, or puck moving, but his defensive game is subpar at best. Actually, I don't think I've seen another experienced NHLer make the boneheaded plays he made this year. Alzner, provided he gets back to his usual level, is going to be a better partner for Petry.

 

[Adriatic]

He will be a great fit here, miles ahead of Gorgeous Georges.

 

[Runner77]

No one is debating that Alzner is better than Emelin offensively, what we're debating is that he's better defensively which is definitely an opinion that can be supported.

You may not be debating it, but the poster I was replying to was claiming it, hence my answer.

What difference does it make that Alzner is better defensively when you have 5 years of him to contend with? He's on a downward slide, from what I've read, he's barely a top 4, his body is wrecked. I don't like the signing, it smacks of overreaction to having lost three LHD in one week. Emelin would have been off the books after this year, it would have definitely been worth putting up with a year of Emelin despite his inferior defence to Alzner.

Emelin was such an inferior defenseman that he was used as a first pairing D for a substantial time last year. Alzner's defence is not worth paying that contract for over such a long term.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The guy is an ironman who was playing through injuries. The sample size before last season is much greater. It basically comes down to this:

Perspective A: Alzner will not recover from his hand and groin injuries, and at age 28 has begun to decline.

Perspective B: Alzner is going to recover from the hand and groin injuries, and be the quality top 4 Dman he has been for the Habs these next 5 years.

The sample size is larger, but it's not as recent, and there's a gigantic question mark as to whether the less recent samples are even relevant anymore.

Perspective B is wanton optimism. Injuries take a toll, and groins are important for hockey players.

 

[Runner77]

Look, I'm not saying Alzner provides offense or more than Emelin, and I'll add I'm not even sure how came up with that conclusion from my post, but since he doesn't provide offense, nor drives the play forward, he's at least positionnally sound and provides, when healthy, solid if unspectacular defensive play.

Emelin not only provides no offense, or puck moving, but his defensive game is subpar at best. Actually, I don't think I've seen another experienced NHLer make the boneheaded plays he made this year. Alzner, provided he gets back to his usual level, is going to be a better partner for Petry.

You wrote: If we're getting 2016 Alzner, then it's quite an upgrade over Emelin, who didn't provide either offense or defense.


The quite-an-upgrade comment implies that Alzner eclipses Emelin in the categories you mention, whether it's offense or defense. Perhaps it was an unintended meaning but the sentence suggested it. If Emelin didn't provide offense, then Alzner doesn't provide it either.

Again, even if Alzner is better defensively than Emelin, is it worth paying 5 years for a defensive defenceman? Emelin would have been off the books at the end of the year -- that would have given plenty of time for the Habs to find a cost controlled replacement. That's the debate, not whether Alzner is better than Emelin -- it's not as if Alzner is so much better than Emelin that you can justify 5 years of him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Alzner will provide stability in our top 4D for the next 5 years. We get him from age 29-33. $4.625M AAV. Decent UFA signing but a bit overpaid if you ask me. Stability is worth something in today's NHL though. If Alzner didn't have a tough year (dealing with injuries and a hernia surgery), he would of got more than $4.625M. We got him at a decent rate but there are some risks if he loses his foot speed.

6'-3", 219 lbs. Don't expect points but he's going to fit well in front of Price. Our D is not small and we will force forwards to the outside. This is key to our best strategy to win with the core we have.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The sample size is larger, but it's not as recent, and there's a gigantic question mark as to whether the less recent samples are even relevant anymore.

Perspective B is wanton optimism. Injuries take a toll, and groins are important for hockey players.

There's an explanation for last year.

But I'm done trying to convince you guys not to be sad. You guys clearly want to be sad, so do as you like.

 

[Andrei79]

You wrote: If we're getting 2016 Alzner, then it's quite an upgrade over Emelin, who didn't provide either offense or defense.


The quite-an-upgrade comment implies that Alzner eclipses Emelin in the categories you mention, whether it's offense or defense. Perhaps it was an unintended meaning but the sentence suggested it, hence my answer.

Again, even if Alzner is better than Emelin, is it worth paying 5 years for a defensive defenceman? Emelin would have been off the books at the end of the year -- that would have given plenty of time for the Habs to find a cost controlled replacement. That's the debate, not whether Alzner is better than Emelin -- it's not as if Alzner is so much better than Emelin that you can justify 5 years of him.

You misunderstood (or misimplied ?) my post then.

As for the signing, I'm not a big fan of it, so you won't get much argument from me about the term of that contract. It runs farther than MB's probable remaining shelf life. But, we were discussing Alzner in the context of Emelin and on that point, he's a better fit for the 2nd pairing.

 

[Runner77]

You misunderstood (or misimplied ?) my post then.

As for the signing, I'm not a big fan of it, so you won't get much argument from me about the term of that contract. It runs farther than MB's probable remaining shelf life. But, we were discussing Alzner in the context of Emelin and on that point, he's a better fit for the 2nd pairing.

I hear you but it's comparing apples and oranges. A guy with a one year deal in a cap setting, provides you with a ton of flexibility. Alzner's best comparative is with other 5 year contracts for a similar skill set. You don't need to pay those kind of dollars to someone who basically almost only provides defence and who is physically battered from years of blocking shots.

 

[Price is Wright]

6'-3", 219 lbs. Don't expect points but

No buts.

If this team wants to compete for a Cup, it needs to expect points out of its top four defencemen.

Alzner's career playoff best is four points. Aside from Chad Rudwehel and Mark Streit, every Pens D had five points or more in the playoffs.

 

[HankyZetts]

The sample size is larger, but it's not as recent, and there's a gigantic question mark as to whether the less recent samples are even relevant anymore.

Perspective B is wanton optimism. Injuries take a toll, and groins are important for hockey players.

We just signed 29 year old Carey price to an 8 year deal. Groins are also important for goalies, no?

It's 2017. If you think our medical staff can't handle this then what are we even doing here??

That iron man streak was our friend. Had Alzner rested up and came back healthy for the playoffs, who knows, they may have resigned him and we'd be counting on emelin again. Yikes!

 

[habs03]

I'm sorry but this is great deal.

Guy is going to eat up hard minutes, and the best part is the 5 year term. Mtl gets him during the prime years of a dmen. And if he breaks down you let him walk at 33 years old.

IMO he'll likely play with Petry, and Markov with Weber, but watch for Julien to put him out with Weber late in close games to defend a lead.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If he breaks down?

He's on public record saying he can't open jars at home.

He's already broken down. Worst part is he was never any good to begin with.

 

[windycity]

6'-3", 219 lbs. Don't expect points but he's going to fit well in front of Price. Our D is not small and we will force forwards to the outside. This is key to our best strategy to win with the core we have.

We'll "force" forwards to the outsides because that's how they'll blow by Alzner. The guy ain't exactly fast to begin with, let alone in 3-4 years.

Still I like him better than Emelin

 

[Fazkovsky]

If he breaks down?

He's on public record saying he can't open jars at home.

He's already broken down. Worst part is he was never any good to begin with.

you are being way too hard on him. Any reason why?

Give the kid a chance and his advanced stats does shoes he is a decent defenceman.

Better then Emelin

Dont tell me Emelin was doing anything offensively or defensively that was standing out. A hip check is good and all but it's not exactly a required skillset.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The guy is an ironman who was playing through injuries. The sample size before last season is much greater. It basically comes down to this:

Perspective A: Alzner will not recover from his hand and groin injuries, and at age 28 has begun to decline.

Perspective B: Alzner is going to recover from the hand and groin injuries, and be the quality top 4 Dman he has been for the Habs these next 5 years.

I'm more inclined to see him as A, especially when you look at what happened to previous ironmen who played through injuries and what happened to their games in their late 20's/early 30's.

I'm sorry but this is great deal.

Guy is going to eat up hard minutes, and the best part is the 5 year term. Mtl gets him during the prime years of a dmen. And if he breaks down you let him walk at 33 years old.

IMO he'll likely play with Petry, and Markov with Weber, but watch for Julien to put him out with Weber late in close games to defend a lead.

The prime years for most defensemen are about 25-31. For Defensive defensemen, its more like 25-29.

 

[Captain Mountain]

you are being way too hard on him. Any reason why?

Give the kid a chance and his advanced stats does shoes he is a decent defenceman.

Better then Emelin

Dont tell me Emelin was doing anything offensively or defensively that was standing out

Ooh, you really don't want to bring up advanced stats when in comes to Alzner. They do not look kindly on him.

 

[WeThreeKings]

you are being way too hard on him. Any reason why?

Give the kid a chance and his advanced stats does shoes he is a decent defenceman.

Better then Emelin

Dont tell me Emelin was doing anything offensively or defensively that was standing out. A hip check is good and all but it's not exactly a required skillset.

Emelin is better even though he has horrendous brain farts, especially taking into account his expiring contract.

It's entirely irrelevant because neither Emelin nor Alzner would be on my defense in a top four capacity and i don't believe in paying role players a **** load of money.

I'm harsh on Alzner because I hate mediocre players who's only upside is standing around in their own end doing nothing but standing in shot lanes and mucking it up in corners, hoping that the puck gets dumped out, shot too hard and clears the zone or the goalie smothers it, before they concede a goal.

I'm harsh on Alzner because he is publicly damaged goods.

I'm harsh on Alzner because I wanted to see Ovie win a cup but year after year, the atrocity of Alzner and Orpik caused the downfall of the Capitals because with less time and space their already mediocre foot speed, puck handling and passing was exposed as truly awful.

You don't overpay losers like Alzner and Shawful. You don't employ players who can't do anything in the two zones away from their own net unless they are a utility player who is a great PKer, then you pay them half of what Alzner makes, or less.