Confirmed with Link: [MTL] Karl Alzner (5 years, $4.625M AAV)

[DramaticGloveSave]

You guys are so wrong here. Alzner was a great addition, he's going to be a solid minute eater in our top 4. His contract is fine, 4.625 is hardly anything these days. He's an upgrade over Emelin. Emelin lacked defensive fundamentals. So did Beaulieu.

 

[Adriatic]

You guys are so wrong here. Alzner was a great addition, he's going to be a solid minute eater in our top 4. His contract is fine, 4.625 is hardly anything these days. He's an upgrade over Emelin. Emelin lacked defensive fundamentals. So did Beaulieu.

Agree. Good post!

 

[CauZuki]

No it isn't, not at all.

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I'll say this, I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.
What many are describing is pre-injury Alzner and I don't think it's realistic to expect him to return to 100% as he gets older especially when talking about a groin injury.

 

[Adriatic]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.

He's much better than Georges.

 

[Agalloch]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I'll say this, I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.

It's common that fans bash a player when he leaves elsewhere. I don't think he's done but he will not provide much offense, that's for sure. He could be a burden in year 3 or 4, but we win the trade for 2 years at least (Alzner for Emelin).

 

[CauZuki]

He's much better than Georges.

Well, then I'm convinced!

Maybe he is another "diamond in the rough".

It's common that fans bash a player when he leaves elsewhere. I don't think he's done but he will not provide much offense, that's for sure. He could be a burden in year 3 or 4, but we win the trade for 2 years at least (Alzner for Emelin).

It's too bad those comments are before the playoffs and are about him while he is still on the team. (Nice try though?)

 

[Mike Hasselhoffman]

Nobody seems willing to give Alzner a chance. He has yet to step foot on the ice as a Hab and people are already saying that he sucks...c'mon people.

It's not like we broke the bank for him or traded away quality pieces. Sure he isn't flashy and he probably won't put up more than 25 points, but he's a pretty damn solid shutdown defenseman and quite frankly, I'd so much rather have Alzner in the top-4 than Emelin. Add in to the fact that Alzner isn't making much more than Emelin was, and you've got yourself a clear, cost-effective upgrade.

Now I'm not saying that we couldn't use some more skill on the blueline, we definitely can, BUT the fact of the matter is that we are a better team with Alzner playing 18-20 minutes a game than Emelin playing those minutes.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I'll say this, I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.
What many are describing is pre-injury Alzner and I don't think it's realistic to expect him to return to 100% as he gets older especially when talking about a groin injury.

He had a rough year because of groin and hand injuries. Caps fans are just bitter because they've never been able to to take it to the next level. Rather than blame the guys they have under contract they are scape goating those who've left.

I've watched plenty of Alzner over the years, and know who he is as a player. The idea that he's just started declining at age 28 is crazy. Teams conduct physicals, so I'm sure if he couldn't hold a hockey stick suddenly we wouldn't have signed him lol.

Saying he's done is like saying Gallagher is done. He had a rough year, but his hand/groin is going to heal, and he's going to be a very good piece for us going forward.

 

[Agalloch]

Well, then I'm convinced!

Maybe he is another "diamond in the rough".



It's too bad those comments are before the playoffs and are about him while he is still on the team. (Nice try though?)

That's not a try, haha, you're funny. It tells a lot about our d-men , but even after reading what they said, he's still an upgrade on Emelin right now. Emelin played 80% of the season with Weber on the top pairing...and we still finished first in the division.

 

[CauZuki]

Nobody seems willing to give Alzner a chance. He has yet to step foot on the ice as a Hab and people are already saying that he sucks...c'mon people.

It's not like we broke the bank for him or traded away quality pieces. Sure he isn't flashy and he probably won't put up more than 25 points, but he's a prett damn solid shutdown defenseman and quite frankly, I'd so much rather have Alzner in the top-4 than Emelin. Add in to the fact that Alzner isn't making much more than Emelin was, and you've got yourself a clear, cost-effective upgrade.

Now I'm not saying that we couldn't use some more skill on the blueline, we definitely can, BUT the fact of the matter is that we are a better team with Alzner playing 18-20 minutes a game than Emelin playing those minutes.

It's not about giving him a chance, we are discussing the potential outcome of this season. If you have an issue with that premise then petition HFboards to lock the website for the summer since there would be no point of discussing nearly 90% of topics.

As for directly comparing to Emelin what a joke, not only is Emelin way overpaid but he is awful as well. That's the new objective to get someone that better than Emelin? Alzner's play has deteriorated and chances are he won't get better as he ages (probability speaking this is fact). Calling this a no risk move is silly, I hope Alzner can end up being a fixture in our top 4 moving forward. However, everything I've seen and heard seems to contradict that notion.

 

[Binary Code]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I'll say this, I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.
What many are describing is pre-injury Alzner and I don't think it's realistic to expect him to return to 100% as he gets older especially when talking about a groin injury.

And you take seriously the judgement of random people on the internet because??

How about waiting for him to play a couple of games for the Habs AND THEN saying he's crap?

 

[Runner77]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

Here's the quote he gave a couple of months ago:

It s kind of embarrassing,he prefaced, but my wife is the one that opens up all the jars in our house because my hands have been broken so many times from the shots.Â

Oh my god,Eric Bickel said.

I ve got pretty weak hands now, Alzner acknowledged. It just depends, but the hands end up being bad in the long term. But yeah, inside of the knee and outside of the knee really kind of give you the dead leg feeling.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/07/karl-alzner-can-no-longer-open-jars/

The time to own Alzner was before he became a UFA, at his low AAV, as the type of player an organization typically develops. And now, five years with this broken down guy. Ugh.

But no, let's compare one year of Emelin's contract left to 5 years of this guy. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Agalloch]

Here's the quote he gave a couple of months ago:



http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/07/karl-alzner-can-no-longer-open-jars/

The time to own Alzner was before he became a UFA. Five years to this broken down guy. Ugh.

But no, let's compare one year of Emelin's contract left to 5 years of this guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Well, Emelin is gone, we had to replace him and the best LD on the UFA market was Alzner. There were even some rumors, Bergevin asked Vegas about reacquiring him.

 

[HankyZetts]

Alzner is already trending down as per many caps fans they make jokes about him because his wife said he can't open jars because he blocked so many shots over the years. He is like a Gorges but after we traded him to Buffalo, serviceable but you won't win anything with him in your top 4 and certainly not when paid like a top 4 D.

It's hard to call this a debate though since you literally haven't presented an argument.

Answer this question:

Why should I believe you or any other Habs fan over the majority of Caps fan that watched this guy play his whole career? (and based their opinion on him before well before he was traded)

It's actually an interesting read: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2217699

I'll say this, I don't think he is going to be some disaster signing but I see many here thinking he will be some kind of force out there which (imo) is setting yourself up for disappointment.
What many are describing is pre-injury Alzner and I don't think it's realistic to expect him to return to 100% as he gets older especially when talking about a groin injury.

If we're "debating" Alzner vs Emelin/Gorges, then I point you to literally any contemporary gdt where one or both of those guys were playing. If you think that Alzner thread is an interesting read, go read the last month of gdts from last yr and search for emelin!

Alzner played through serious injuries last year, our pro scouting saw right through that. The guy is simply a much better player than 74 and is a much better fit.

 

[Runner77]

And you take seriously the judgement of random people on the internet because??

Says a random guy on the internet.

As brought up by yours truly, another random guy on the internet.

 

[CauZuki]

He had a rough year because of groin and hand injuries. Caps fans are just bitter because they've never been able to to take it to the next level. Rather than blame the guys they have under contract they are scape goating those who've left.

I've watched plenty of Alzner over the years, and know who he is as a player. The idea that he's just started declining at age 28 is crazy. Teams conduct physicals, so I'm sure if he couldn't hold a hockey stick suddenly we wouldn't have signed him lol.

Saying he's done is like saying Gallagher is done. He had a rough year, but his hand/groin is going to heal, and he's going to be a very good piece for us going forward.

I was perhaps premature in saying he was done, but there are many "if" to this scenario that I'm not comfortable with and I'll leave it at that.

The reason I believe the Caps fans isn't their "opinion" I mostly go off the poster that are showing facts. Like the ones where he is bottom of the league in terms of shot suppression which is supposedly his strength. If it's an anomaly year due to injuries then that's great the Habs should be in decent shape moving forward.

However factoring his age (not old but defensive d-man tend to not age very well , it's no wonder most old D are offensive types) and his type of injuries (hand/groin) , it leaves a lot up in the air.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

It's not about giving him a chance, we are discussing the potential outcome of this season. If you have an issue with that premise then petition HFboards to lock the website for the summer since there would be no point of discussing nearly 90% of topics.

As for directly comparing to Emelin what a joke, not only is Emelin way overpaid but he is awful as well. That's the new objective to get someone that better than Emelin? Alzner's play has deteriorated and chances are he won't get better as he ages (probability speaking this is fact). Calling this a no risk move is silly, I hope Alzner can end up being a fixture in our top 4 moving forward. However, everything I've seen and heard seems to contradict that notion.

The fact Emelin was good enough for LV to take in the expansion draft and then flip to Nashville for a 3rd round pick should tell you how desperate teams are these days for defensemen. Nashville knows a thing or two, right? Every team wants 6 guys who they can trust. When a guy like Emelin is sought after by Nashville, that tells you something. Alzner is much better than Emelin, and he makes us a better hockey team.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I was perhaps premature in saying he was done, but there are many "if" to this scenario that I'm not comfortable with and I'll leave it at that.

The reason I believe the Caps fans isn't their "opinion" I mostly go off the poster that are showing facts. Like the ones where he is bottom of the league in terms of shot suppression which is supposedly his strength. If it's an anomaly year due to injuries then that's great the Habs should be in decent shape moving forward.

However factoring his age (not old but defensive d-man tend to not age very well , it's no wonder most old D are offensive types) and his type of injuries (hand/groin) , it leaves a lot to be wondered.

The Caps were/are a run and gun team. Alzner was a bit of a misfit, and the team stunk defensively as a whole (though Holtby helped shield that).

Alzner is going to be a great fit here playing with either Weber or Petry.

 

[Andrei79]

If we're getting 2016 Alzner, then it's quite an upgrade over Emelin, who didn't provide either offense or defense.

MB still needs to find a partner for Weber though, as well as a top 6 center.

 

[Runner77]

Well, Emelin is gone, we had to replace him and the best LD on the UFA market was Alzner. There were even some rumors, Bergevin asked Vegas about reacquiring him.

If we're going to go on that basis, there will be no debate. Wait and see will apply to every move Bergevin made in the off season, no one's playing, let's punt the whole forum forward to October.

Emelin gone is one thing. But to claim Alzner is better than Emelin and not take into consideration that Emelin's contract was off the books at the end of the year, is disingenuous. One more year of Emelin buys you enough time to find a replacement, instead of rushing to sign an average free agent and throwing a 5 year contract at him out of self-inflicted desperation.

 

[CauZuki]

The Caps were/are a run and gun team. Alzner was a bit of a misfit, and the team stunk defensively as a whole (though Holtby helped shield that).

Alzner is going to be a great fit here playing with either Weber or Petry.

I can maybe see that, however, Weber wouldn't be a good fit in my opinion. Alzner has shown to be at his best (even pre-injury) by playing with a mobile partner.

I hope Alzner - Petry end up forming a solid duo.

The Caps were/are a run and gun team. Alzner was a bit of a misfit, and the team stunk defensively as a whole (though Holtby helped shield that).

Alzner is going to be a great fit here playing with either Weber or Petry.

Precisely.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Ending up with a plate in your head is ever so slightly different from the mending of a tendon/muscle or a bone in your hand...

Except that happened on Russia and didn't affect his decline in the NHL at all.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Emelin's value has been all over the place this year

He was one of the worst Habs D if you read most posts here...

Then people couldn't believe Vegas took him off our hands for free.

The second the Habs signed Alzner though...

Emelin's value skyrocketed again..

Some weird **** going on around here.

Emelin's value hasn't skyrocketed, its more of researched comparison to Alzner. Alzner is the better player, but not by much.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I can maybe see that, however, Weber wouldn't be a good fit in my opinion. Alzner had shown to be at his best even pre-injury by playing with a mobile partner.

I hope Alzner - Petry end up forming a solid duo.

That's what I would do as well.

Alzner-Petry would be my #1 pairing for TOI. They can matchup against opponents top lines, and play the first team PK. Let those 2 eat the majority of the tough minutes.

I think this would allow us to have Schlemko, Jerabek, or perhaps even Markov play with Weber on the 2nd pairing. Taking the load off Weber defensively in the regular season will help us come playoff time.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Emelin's value hasn't skyrocketed, its more of researched comparison to Alzner. Alzner is the better player, but not by much.

Alzner knows how to play defence in the NHL, that's the big difference. And it is a big difference.