Jason Lewis
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2011
- 5,476
- 1
First, If something is 100% team based then it literally wouldn't matter what goalie you put behind a team. If that were true, I (with a grand total of 0 minutes of ice hockey goalie experience) could suit up and pull the same stats as Lundqvist. I think we can both agree how absurd that is.
Second, if you can't use SV%, GAA and Wins to compare goalies, which metrics do you suppose should be used?
So to answer your question until better statistics are around in hockey, I just hope people continue to watch the sport to compare players, maybe it is just me though.
Wins are 100% team based. The goalie is part of the team. The team wins or loses the gameFirst, If something is 100% team based then it literally wouldn't matter what goalie you put behind a team. If that were true, I (with a grand total of 0 minutes of ice hockey goalie experience) could suit up and pull the same stats as Lundqvist. I think we can both agree how absurd that is.
Wins are 100% team based. The goalie is part of the team. The team wins or loses the game
Wins are 100% team based. The goalie is part of the team. The team wins or loses the game
The rest of the goalie stats are player based. The player makes the save or not, which affects his percentage and average. Of course the team affects his stats, but that goes for all stats, so that’s nothing new. Wins are the only stat (that I can think), which is 100% team based, yet attributed to an individual. It’s the most useless stat out there. I’ve never understood why only the goalie gets the win stat.
Sv% and GAA are both again team based stats..... GAA is the amount of goals scored on a team, if we called it "goals for" or "goals against" it would be considered a team stat not a goalie statistic.... and Sv% a made up of goals and shots aloud, (1 - # of goals/shots aloud) both of which I would again say are team statistics, maybe I'm in the minority here
GAA is the amount of goals scored on a goalie. When a goal is scored, There is generally 4 people who get credited - the 2 assisters, the goal scorer and the goalie who was beaten. Every other players on the ice gets a + or - since they are on the ice and have part to play with the goal being scored, but individually 4 people get stats credited (or discredited, in terms of the goalie) to them. The only real difference and goalies have their stats averaged over 60 mins and players stats are noted as absolutes.Sv% and GAA are both again team based stats..... GAA is the amount of goals scored on a team, if we called it "goals for" or "goals against" it would be considered a team stat not a goalie statistic.... and Sv% a made up of goals and shots aloud, (1 - # of goals/shots aloud) both of which I would again say are team statistics, maybe I'm in the minority here
So +/- is apparently a horrible stat.
But if your looking at two players and they are pretty similar. But one has a -20 and the other a +20, who do you pick?
We are in the age of VORP, QB Ratings, WPA/G, OPS(really the proven effectiveness and simplicity of the stat is why this was included), DIPS, etc.
The fact that most of the widely used stats in hockey are so bad means no-one is trying, we have this post and almost every common statistic has been attacked at one point or another, the leagues reporting is completely biased and overall a joke.
So to answer your question until better statistics are around in hockey, I just hope people continue to watch the sport to compare players, maybe it is just me though.
[Edit: To not offend the hard working amateur stat gurus that can be applauded for most of the analysis in sports, My point on no-one trying was directed towards the league; its hard to analyse anything using bad source info]
I am shocked to see that GWG hasn't been mentioned yet in this entire thread. It is a completely useless stat.
Puck Luck
Easily the worst not in only hockey, but all sports.
"Clutch-factor". It simply doesn't exist.
This. I've never understood the relevance of ponts.
...+/- You can be a very good player on a bad team and be negative. You can be a poor defensive player on a high scoring team and be around zero.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/careerstats....rt=plusMinus&viewName=careerLeadersAllSeasonsPlayer Team Pos 1st NHL Season Last NHL Season GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT OT Shots
1-30 of 6259 results. 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7-12 | Next | Last
1 Larry Robinson D 1972-1973 1991-1992 1,384 208 750 958 +730 793 66 3 29 2 0 2,338
2 Bobby Orr D 1966-1967 1978-1979 657 270 645 915 +597 953 73 15 26
3 Ray Bourque D 1979-1980 2000-2001 1,612 410 1,169 1,579 +528 1,141 173 16 60 14 4 6,206
4 Wayne Gretzky C 1979-1980 1998-1999 1,487 894 1,963 2,857 +518 577 204 73 91 12 1 5,089
Hard to measure, but it does mean you have the puck more often than not...FO %. How many faceoff wins lead to goals or prevention of goals?