Most useless or inaccurate stat in hockey?
- Thread starter Superpest
- Start date
We are in the age of VORP, QB Ratings, WPA/G, OPS(really the proven effectiveness and simplicity of the stat is why this was included), DIPS, etc.
The fact that most of the widely used stats in hockey are so bad means no-one is trying, we have this post and almost every common statistic has been attacked at one point or another, the leagues reporting is completely biased and overall a joke.
So to answer your question until better statistics are around in hockey, I just hope people continue to watch the sport to compare players, maybe it is just me though.
[Edit: To not offend the hard working amateur stat gurus that can be applauded for most of the analysis in sports, My point on no-one trying was directed towards the league; its hard to analyse anything using bad source info]
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
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"Watching the sport" suffers similar biases when comparing players - I go into this in depth earlier in the thread and elsewhere in this forum.
EDIT: here's the most accessible comment:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=70567617
Cawz
Registered User
Wins are 100% team based. The goalie is part of the team. The team wins or loses the game
The rest of the goalie stats are player based. The player makes the save or not, which affects his percentage and average. Of course the team affects his stats, but that goes for all stats, so that’s nothing new. Wins are the only stat (that I can think), which is 100% team based, yet attributed to an individual. It’s the most useless stat out there. I’ve never understood why only the goalie gets the win stat.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
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Granted, although that's typically not what someone means when they use the phrase "team-based" to disparage a statistic's worth.
Sv% and GAA are both again team based stats..... GAA is the amount of goals scored on a team, if we called it "goals for" or "goals against" it would be considered a team stat not a goalie statistic.... and Sv% a made up of goals and shots aloud, (1 - # of goals/shots aloud) both of which I would again say are team statistics, maybe I'm in the minority here
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
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Yes, teams are involved in both statistics (although I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim otherwise).
You said that they were 100% team based - is that the claim that you're defending here?
Cawz
Registered User
GAA is the amount of goals scored on a goalie. When a goal is scored, There is generally 4 people who get credited - the 2 assisters, the goal scorer and the goalie who was beaten. Every other players on the ice gets a + or - since they are on the ice and have part to play with the goal being scored, but individually 4 people get stats credited (or discredited, in terms of the goalie) to them. The only real difference and goalies have their stats averaged over 60 mins and players stats are noted as absolutes.
Team GA and GF are a team stat, since its every goal scored on and by the team.
hatterson
Registered User
You'd have to define "pretty similar"
What type of players are each playing against? Who are they playing with? What type of situations are they deployed in? What's the goaltending behind each been?
Without additional information you can't say which one you'd pick.
Simply because someone attacks a stat does not mean it is useless. I can point out flaws or issues with each of the stats you mentioned, that doesn't mean they're invalid, it just means that you can't use any of them as a singular source of information about a player.
I'm also not sure what bias has to do with it, unless you believe that the league has sent some form of instructions to various rinks to artificially inflate or deflate shot counts. Of the "basic" stats for goalies/players, shots is the only one that involves any form of judgement, and even that is tempered by the fact that half your games are played away from your home rink, and in every game both teams are judged by the same shot keeper.
Estimated_Prophet
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- Mar 28, 2003
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I am shocked to see that GWG hasn't been mentioned yet in this entire thread. It is a completely useless stat.
tacogeoff
Registered User
Totally agree
Totally disagree.
Puck Luck is probably a stat that's practically single handidly won me hockey pools. I have made mammoth trades taking advantage of players i had that were "hot", no longer in situations of "expected improvement", and scoring at a high clip, due to puck luck research.
It's probably my favorite, at least for a "warning" on whats likely to come.
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates Of Arda
Giveaways and takeaways. Just very inaccurate from building to building.
Toronto gives up the puck a whole lot more at home than on the road and it's not even close.
Colorado is a takeaway haven. It's not wonder why their forwards are usually on top of the list for takeaways.
Toronto gives up the puck a whole lot more at home than on the road and it's not even close.
Colorado is a takeaway haven. It's not wonder why their forwards are usually on top of the list for takeaways.
Dr Quincy
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I think stats like Hits and Blocked Shots aren't useless. They do tells us a bit about a player and his style, even if they don't tell us a ton about his effectiveness.
For the most part guys who are really high in hits are indeed physical players, and guys who are really low aren't. Thus if there's a player you've never seen before, a look at those stats can give you some information about what type of player he is.
For the most part guys who are really high in hits are indeed physical players, and guys who are really low aren't. Thus if there's a player you've never seen before, a look at those stats can give you some information about what type of player he is.
Aceboogie
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+/- is often misused by people, but is also pretty useless
Hits, takeaways, giveaways, blocked shots (like the guy mentioned above) Give an indication about playing style, but shouldnt give indication about value or performance.
These stats are often not understood and misused.
Hitting, takeaways and blocked shots all happen off the puck and having high totals in these categories may mean poor possession play.
Giveaways are often seen as a "bad" stat, but giveaways happen when you have possession of the puck. Which is why youll see players that love to have the puck (and are often top talents) with high giveaway totals.
Not useless, but misinterepted
Hits, takeaways, giveaways, blocked shots (like the guy mentioned above) Give an indication about playing style, but shouldnt give indication about value or performance.
These stats are often not understood and misused.
Hitting, takeaways and blocked shots all happen off the puck and having high totals in these categories may mean poor possession play.
Giveaways are often seen as a "bad" stat, but giveaways happen when you have possession of the puck. Which is why youll see players that love to have the puck (and are often top talents) with high giveaway totals.
Not useless, but misinterepted
Doesn't that mean bridges in French?
+/- You can be a very good player on a bad team and be negative. You can be a poor defensive player on a high scoring team and be around zero.
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Say Hey Kid
MI retired Nick Saban
http://www.nhl.com/ice/careerstats....rt=plusMinus&viewName=careerLeadersAllSeasons
Larry Robinson is a great defensive player, but you can be a great offensive player on a great team and have a great +/-.
TrillMike
Registered User
hockeydude1
#CatsAreComing
Hard to measure, but it does mean you have the puck more often than not...
Faceoffs in either zone are important, but neutral zone faceoffs are less meaningful...
