Moritz Seider & his usage/level of play

[Oddbob]

Walman has made many mistakes lately. Hopefully it won't become a habit

My honest thoughts are Walman is playing above his station. He really is more in the 3-5 kind of d man, rather than 2-3 kind. I think it would be great if we could get him to the second pair.

 

[RedHawkDown]

My honest thoughts are Walman is playing above his station. He really is more in the 3-5 kind of d man, rather than 2-3 kind. I think it would be great if we could get him to the second pair.

I wonder who could do that. Perhaps someone named Noah.

 

[Oddbob]

I wonder who could do that. Perhaps someone named Noah.

Big rumour him and Markstrom are Jersey bound.

 

[raymond23]

Fantastic performance tonight

2 assists
5 hits
3 blocks
+2

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Great game from him tonight, loved seeing it. I do think it’s a little ridiculous some of you guys took my comment and twisted my Intentions for what I was saying. This is not lidstrom in 96, this is a player who is still 22 years old being forced to play the hardest minutes for a defenseman EVER. Seider is our 1d and should get the harder matchups, but that doesn’t mean he should get this hard of a deployment. I mean can people make rebuttals in good faith anymore? We have 4 bottom pair defenseman and we have to shelter them far too much, if anything yzerman created way too big of a logjam for guys like holl and chiarot that we have to now incredibly shelter deployment wise.

 

[SantosHalper]

Great game from him tonight, loved seeing it. I do think it’s a little ridiculous some of you guys took my comment and twisted my Intentions for what I was saying. This is not lidstrom in 96, this is a player who is still 22 years old being forced to play the hardest minutes for a defenseman EVER. Seider is our 1d and should get the harder matchups, but that doesn’t mean he should get this hard of a deployment. I mean can people make rebuttals in good faith anymore? We have 4 bottom pair defenseman and we have to shelter them far too much, if anything yzerman created way too big of a logjam for guys like holl and chiarot that we have to now incredibly shelter deployment wise.

Have you considered that Seider really is that good? The hardest minutes and matchups is where he thrives, against Calgary it didn't even look Seider break sweat. This kid is a friggin monster at the age of 22. Chiarot is having a good season and he is not being sheltered. 4th highest TOI in the team, 3rd most minutes of all d-men, 2nd most ES minutes of all dmen, highest ES TOI per game in the entire team.

 

[DoMakc]

Have you considered that Seider really is that good? The hardest minutes and matchups is where he thrives, against Calgary it didn't even look Seider break sweat. This kid is a friggin monster at the age of 22. Chiarot is having a good season and he is not being sheltered. 4th highest TOI in the team, 3rd most minutes of all d-men, 2nd most ES minutes of all dmen, highest ES TOI per game in the entire team.

Chiarot is having a good season because he is being sheltered. For a second pairing he is playing rather soft minutes,

 

[RRhoads]

Chiarot is having a good season because he is being sheltered. For a second pairing he is playing rather soft minutes,

Not really



Now compare to the rest of the league

 

[Gniwder]

Great game from him tonight, loved seeing it. I do think it’s a little ridiculous some of you guys took my comment and twisted my Intentions for what I was saying. This is not lidstrom in 96, this is a player who is still 22 years old being forced to play the hardest minutes for a defenseman EVER. Seider is our 1d and should get the harder matchups, but that doesn’t mean he should get this hard of a deployment. I mean can people make rebuttals in good faith anymore? We have 4 bottom pair defenseman and we have to shelter them far too much, if anything yzerman created way too big of a logjam for guys like holl and chiarot that we have to now incredibly shelter deployment wise.

Do you have him on your fantasy team or something? I want the team to win, which means the best D pair against the opponents top line. Typically the top line isn't the most physical line, so I'm not sure what the concern is at all.

I get way more worried when Ghost is on the ice against checking lines because he's so soft.

 

[Chelis Chili]

Moritz Seider scored one of his team’s four goals, with Patrick Kane picking up his 800th career assist on the play, as the Red Wings earned their sixth overtime win of the season – the only teams with more are the Stars (7) and Rangers (7). Seider’s goal stood as the 19th of his career, moving him past Nicklas Lidstrom (18) for the fifth most by a Red Wings defenseman before age 23 behind Reed Larson (37), Steve Chiasson (29), Willie Huber (27) and Red Kelly (26).

sauce: https://media.nhl.com/public/news/17748

 

[Baszie]

Long read, but I found it quite interesting.

 

[Konnan511]

Not really

View attachment 821768

Now compare to the rest of the league
View attachment 821769

What's the X axis?

 

[OneMoreTry]

Long read, but I found it quite interesting.

Amazing read, confirming what you can see during the games.

You can only hope for a trade / FA-signing / Ed promotion and skyrocketing, to get another top-level D-Man, because continuing this workload might drive Mo into the ground..

Makes it even more impressive that he has yet to miss a game.

 

[RRhoads]

What's the X axis?

Dangerous Fenwick For Ratio

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Every single day I wonder what the hell happened to seiders potential since his rookie year, his 3rd year in the league and analytically and eye test wise it’s been his worst overall. Seiders potential was top 5 defenseman in the world and I just don’t see it anymore, he makes so many mistakes he never use to make now. Sure you guys will mock me to hell for this, but the coaching change has just been really brutal for him.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

Every single day I wonder what the hell happened to seiders potential since his rookie year, his 3rd year in the league and analytically and eye test wise it’s been his worst overall. Seiders potential was top 5 defenseman in the world and I just don’t see it anymore, he makes so many mistakes he never use to make now. Sure you guys will mock me to hell for this, but the coaching change has just been really brutal for him.

I actually somewhat agree with you. He very rarely throws a big hit or one of his “reverse hits” that made him famous as a rookie. He also very rarely handles the puck, which he was quite adept at back then.

He’s still our best dman, by far, but I am a little concerned with his lack of improvement since his excellent rookie year. If anything, i think he has gotten slightly less effective since then.

 

[redwings25]

He has to play on his toes more. He used to attack the puck carrier now he backs up and poke checks. Im sure its a coaching thing but you gotta let the big german attack the puck carrier, hes a beast when he does

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

It is easy to rip him tonight, he has been terrible, tonight.

But over the course of 82 this year, we are going to get more good than bad from him.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

He has to play on his toes more. He used to attack the puck carrier now he backs up and poke checks. Im sure its a coaching thing but you gotta let the big german attack the puck carrier, hes a beast when he does

You bring up great points. Coaching probably has much to do with it. They’ve probably “refined “ his game to make less mistakes. But, in doing so, theyve taken him away from some of the things that made him special. Theyve taken him from a young man who looked liked a possible modern Pronger type of menace, into a shitty version of Lidstrom. Maybe that is simplifying things a bit much, but that’s what it looks like.

 

[raymond23]

It's difficult to not make emotional judgements right now but I will say his escapability and mobility just aren't where they were

I've watched almost every second of hockey he's played since being drafted and its clear he's not playing to his potential

It could be confidence, coaching, or who knows what



Look at how more aggressive he was with his crossovers. And when's the last time he made a reverse hit? I thought that was going to be his signature move. Still an incredible player but its frustrating to see those parts disappearing from his game

 

[Oddbob]

Every single day I wonder what the hell happened to seiders potential since his rookie year, his 3rd year in the league and analytically and eye test wise it’s been his worst overall. Seiders potential was top 5 defenseman in the world and I just don’t see it anymore, he makes so many mistakes he never use to make now. Sure you guys will mock me to hell for this, but the coaching change has just been really brutal for him.

Honestly, I think Lalonde and Boughner are Seider's problem. He doesn't play the same style he did his rookie season, because Lalonde wants defensive hockey. Seider was great his rookie season cause he took chances that led to lots of great stuff, since Lalonde has come in, he basically always just dumps it in and very rarely is super aggressive in the offensive end. He plays a unique style and they are trying to make him something he isn't which is just a stay at home defender.

 

[14ari13]

It is easy to rip him tonight, he has been terrible, tonight.

But over the course of 82 this year, we are going to get more good than bad from him.

This might have his worst game in wings uniform.

However, the coaches are not doing a good job with him. He shoots a way too little and he does not try to find the lanes.
The coaches are doing a terrible job here.

He is not physical and aggressive as he was before.

 

[Filppula]

It is easy to rip him tonight, he has been terrible, tonight.

But over the course of 82 this year, we are going to get more good than bad from him.

Such lofty standards.

Offensively though he looks far less impressive than his rookie season. That patch though where he was looking rock solid defensively, I’d take that over everything.

 

[Henkka]

Seider is currently producing 0.51 points per game for last 2 seasons.

Other comparables, and their 2nd contracts after ELCs and their production for the last 2 season at same age:

2017 draftees:
Cale Makar 1.07 (got 6-year deal 9.0M) 11.0% of cap
Miro Heiskanen 0.50 (got 8-year deal 8.45M) 10.37% of cap

2018 draftees:
Quinn Hughes 0.94 ppg (got 6-year deal 7.85M) 9.6% of cap
Rasmus Dahlin 0.80 got (got 3-year deal 6.0M) 7.2% of cap
Noah Dobson 0.63 (got 3-year deal 4.0M) 4.85% of cap
Evan Bouchard 0.51 (got 2-year deal 3.9M) 4.67% of cap
Rasmus Sandin 0.42 (got 5-year deal 4.6M) 5.51% of cap

2019 draftees:
Moritz Seider 0.51 (???)
Bowen Byram 0.45 (got 2-year deal, for 3.85M)
Cam York 0.36 (got 2-year deal, for 1.6M)


How Yzerman will play this is contract situation, is by not offering the 8 years. Because that Heiskanen deal would give him 9.07M as a comparable.

He is proably offering 6 years at maximum, because Seider can't match Makar and Hughes as comparables anyhow. Those guys are putting points almost double more per game. Point-scoring isn't everything, but those guys will beat Seider also in total ice-time from their ELC seasons.

Only 5 year deal comparable is Rasmus Sandin, from same draft class. And this deal has some weight. Seider is better on production and plays a larger role, so definitely he is gonna get more than Sandin, that's obvious.

These short deals like 2 or 3 years are always cheap for RFAs, but I don't expect them to happen. 4 years does carry him straight to UFA. Don't see that happen either.

But these 5-6 years, Hedman-styled 2nd deals, is what I see Yzerman is targeting for. Caphit will probably be a steal, like Makar deal is, and that's what Stevie wants to spread around the whole roster. Agents can't do anything for it, when you select the right terms, with best team-friendly comparables.

 

[norrisnick]

Seider is currently producing 0.51 points per game for last 2 seasons.

Other comparables, and their 2nd contracts after ELCs and their production for the last 2 season at same age:

2017 draftees:
Cale Makar 1.07 (got 6-year deal 9.0M) 11.0% of cap
Miro Heiskanen 0.50 (got 8-year deal 8.45M) 10.37% of cap

2018 draftees:
Quinn Hughes 0.94 ppg (got 6-year deal 7.85M) 9.6% of cap
Rasmus Dahlin 0.80 got (got 3-year deal 6.0M) 7.2% of cap
Noah Dobson 0.63 (got 3-year deal 4.0M) 4.85% of cap
Evan Bouchard 0.51 (got 2-year deal 3.9M) 4.67% of cap
Rasmus Sandin 0.42 (got 5-year deal 4.6M) 5.51% of cap

2019 draftees:
Moritz Seider 0.51 (???)
Bowen Byram 0.45 (got 2-year deal, for 3.85M)
Cam York 0.36 (got 2-year deal, for 1.6M)


How Yzerman will play this is contract situation, is by not offering the 8 years. Because that Heiskanen deal would give him 9.07M as a comparable.

He is proably offering 6 years at maximum, because Seider can't match Makar and Hughes as comparables anyhow. Those guys are putting points almost double more per game. Point-scoring isn't everything, but those guys will beat Seider also in total ice-time from their ELC seasons.

Only 5 year deal comparable is Rasmus Sandin, from same draft class. And this deal has some weight. Seider is better on production and plays a larger role, so definitely he is gonna get more than Sandin, that's obvious.

These short deals like 2 or 3 years are always cheap for RFAs, but I don't expect them to happen. 4 years does carry him straight to UFA. Don't see that happen either.

But these 5-6 years, Hedman-styled 2nd deals, is what I see Yzerman is targeting for. Caphit will probably be a steal, like Makar deal is, and that's what Stevie wants to spread around the whole roster. Agents can't do anything for it, when you select the right terms, with best team-friendly comparables.

Sanderson and Power exist. Nothing Yzerman can do to make them and their contracts not exist.