Moritz Seider & his usage/level of play

[Henkka]

Sanderson and Power exist. Nothing Yzerman can do to make them and their contracts not exist.

Those were 8 years.

Like I said, Yzerman has the all the POWER not to offer 8-year deals.

It's so easy. Avoid the term.

Also, Seider ice-time is nothing impressive based on those best comparables, like Makar, Hughes and Heiskanen.

Last 2 seasons on ELC:
----------------
Q.Hughes 25:28
Makar 25:10
Heiskanen 24:55
Seider 22:44 avg TOI

He just won't deserve the same. Role is not the same and production is not at same level.

Everybody is expecting too much, too long and too high.

 

[norrisnick]

Those were 8 years.

Like I said, Yzerman has the all the POWER not to offer 8-year deals.

It's so easy. Avoid the term.

And Mo has all the power to not sign anything less than an 8-year deal.

 

[Oddbob]

And Mo has all the power to not sign anything less than an 8-year deal.

Exactly, if Mo and Lucas for that matter want 8, they get 8. Yzerman is not some magical GM that can make people do what he wants, like a very select few here like to pretend and mention every chance they get.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Exactly, if Mo and Lucas for that matter want 8, they get 8. Yzerman is not some magical GM that can make people do what he wants, like a very select few here like to pretend and mention every chance they get.

Or they could get no contract and make no money. If they will only settle for 8, they may have to sign an offer sheet and get 7.

 

[Frk It]

Remember how Larkin had those 2 years people were kind of down on him and then he pushed through it and had multiple ppg seasons?

Development isn’t always linear.

Long term I still have a ton of belief in Seider.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He's been handed some of the toughest defensive assignments of a defensemen in the cap era lol.

People melting down like Seider doesn't have a history of changing his game to fit the team needs. And sadly the team defense sucks, so he gets the worst matchups and has to play as a defensive defender like he did in the DEL.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

He will be fine, but he stunk last night. Stunk.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Remember how Larkin had those 2 years people were kind of down on him and then he pushed through it and had multiple ppg seasons?

I remember this happening on Earth-3.

Might also remember here on Earth-1 with some rounding.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Bring back Dekeyser, that seemed to be when Mo Seider was his best. Seriousky, his growth has plateaued, but I think he doesn’t have the right partners to play with. Sorry, Walman is not a top pairing Dman, nice story and great find, but he’s middle pairing dman on any other team that are contenders.

 

[Ricelund]

I’m not worried about Seider. He needs someone else on defense to lighten his load, which is why I was intrigued by Hanifin. Hopefully Edvinsson can be that guy in the next year or two if they’re not able to add anyone significant at the deadline/this summer.

 

[Frk It]

Such lofty standards.

Offensively though he looks far less impressive than his rookie season. That patch though where he was looking rock solid defensively, I’d take that over everything.

Rookie season he was getting 1 min more per game on the power play than any other defenseman. Now we have Ghost in that role. That's really all it is.

I don't think Seider has lost anything with his offensive game or skating ability at the age of 22, like some are suggesting.

I think things looking different with him comes down to mostly a different deployment and then the residual effects of that like probably having less confidence and maybe being gassed with this current role he is in. To be clear I think he is in over his head right now, 100%.

I do think he is definitely playing with less physicality this year. Not sure why that is. Not sure if he is just trying not to over-exert himself, or what.

Ultimately I side on let's see how he responds to some of this adversity over the next few years. He could come out if better off in the long run actually, IMO.

 

[GreatGordie9]

He will be fine, but he stunk last night. Stunk.

The whole team in front of Lyon and Reimer stunk.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He will be fine, but he stunk last night. Stunk.

Last night might've been the worst game I've seen from him.

But then again, last night was a shit night for everybody. Maatta with the complete dumbass retaliation penalty while the game was still in reach. Petry just... Being Petry.

Such lofty standards.

Offensively though he looks far less impressive than his rookie season. That patch though where he was looking rock solid defensively, I’d take that over everything.

His offensive usage has essentially been completely eradicated.

... And I'm not entirely positive that hasn't been done on purpose to keep him cost controlled.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

The whole team in front of Lyon and Reimer stunk.

Right but usually Mo isn't making Petry plays.

 

[Winger98]

Seider will be fine. 22 yr old kid, playing arguably the hardest minutes in the league, with relatively little power play time to fluff his offensive stats and still pacing for 40 points this year.

6 years, 8 years, whatever, I have faith in Yzerman inking him to a deal that won't be bad and that Seider is guy you build around.

 

[heyfolks]

He will be fine, but he stunk last night. Stunk.

Worst game I have ever seen him play in the NHL. Pitiful in all areas from hockey smarts to skill. When Pang calls you out, boy did you have a bad game.

I still believe he is injured. His hitting has become nonexistent.

 

[SantosHalper]

Similar match up guy Forsling just got 8 x 5.75, makes me think maybe Yzerman could get Seider re-signed with similar deal. 8 x 6.5-6.75?

Since 2021-22:
Seider 226 GP, 0,55 PPG, TOI 22:51
Forsling 215 GP, 0,51 PPG, TOI 22:14

 

[norrisnick]

Similar match up guy Forsling just got 8 x 5.75, makes me think maybe Yzerman could get Seider re-signed with similar deal. 8 x 6.5-6.75?

Since 2021-22:
Seider 226 GP, 0,55 PPG, TOI 22:51
Forsling 215 GP, 0,51 PPG, TOI 22:14

Forsling will be 36yo at the end of his contract. Mo would be 31 at the end of an 8 year deal.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Seider will be fine. 22 yr old kid, playing arguably the hardest minutes in the league, with relatively little power play time to fluff his offensive stats and still pacing for 40 points this year.

6 years, 8 years, whatever, I have faith in Yzerman inking him to a deal that won't be bad and that Seider is guy you build around.

Agreed. It's a cynical view but honestly if he's going to have an "off" year this is the one to do it with a new contract coming.

I think the biggest issue is trying to do too much himself. I can understand the impulse when the team is getting shelled but these guys need to trust one another. Him going behind the net after Rantanen on the Lekhonen goal is a perfect example.

Rantanen is camped out behind the net. Biz even pointed out that Walman should've been the one challenging Rantanen because Lyon has Walman's post covered and you generally want to force the guy behind the net to make a play on his backhand. Walman is covering Rantanen's forehand side so is closer to the puck.

Walman does nothing so Seider leaves his man wide open to challenge. Raymond and Ras aren't able to get there in time to cover Lekhonen, the pass gets thru Walman and it's a slam dunk.

His two penalties were kind of flukey but at least one of them Seider is in front of his own net and really needs to whack the loose puck to the boards but he goes for a clear instead and it's up and over the glass. He's 22 and he's not Nick Lidstrom. He's not gonna make the perfect play every time, but he's still learning.

 

[SantosHalper]

Forsling will be 36yo at the end of his contract. Mo would be 31 at the end of an 8 year deal.

And your point?

 

[Ricelund]

And your point?

Ages 23-31 are significantly more valuable than 28-36.

 

[Henkka]

Similar match up guy Forsling just got 8 x 5.75, makes me think maybe Yzerman could get Seider re-signed with similar deal. 8 x 6.5-6.75?

Since 2021-22:
Seider 226 GP, 0,55 PPG, TOI 22:51
Forsling 215 GP, 0,51 PPG, TOI 22:14

They are not comparables. Different age and different phase of careers.

Seider's next deal will include anyways 4 cheap RFA years, when the term is 5 to 8 years.

And not offering 7 or 8 year term, Yzerman will avoid the cap inflation and also those and bad comparables at same time.

 

[SantosHalper]

Ages 23-31 are significantly more valuable than 28-36.

I don't think Seider's value drops after he turns 31, more likely rises.

They are not comparables. Different age and different phase of careers.

Role is exactly the same but age is different but phase of career, Forsling is a late bloomer. He was still a AHL player at 23. Few seasons in Chicago as 7D don't really add value imo. Forsling definitely took a pay cut.

 

[Frk It]

Seider is currently producing 0.51 points per game for last 2 seasons.

Other comparables, and their 2nd contracts after ELCs and their production for the last 2 season at same age:

2017 draftees:
Cale Makar 1.07 (got 6-year deal 9.0M) 11.0% of cap
Miro Heiskanen 0.50 (got 8-year deal 8.45M) 10.37% of cap

2018 draftees:
Quinn Hughes 0.94 ppg (got 6-year deal 7.85M) 9.6% of cap
Rasmus Dahlin 0.80 got (got 3-year deal 6.0M) 7.2% of cap
Noah Dobson 0.63 (got 3-year deal 4.0M) 4.85% of cap
Evan Bouchard 0.51 (got 2-year deal 3.9M) 4.67% of cap
Rasmus Sandin 0.42 (got 5-year deal 4.6M) 5.51% of cap

2019 draftees:
Moritz Seider 0.51 (???)
Bowen Byram 0.45 (got 2-year deal, for 3.85M)
Cam York 0.36 (got 2-year deal, for 1.6M)


How Yzerman will play this is contract situation, is by not offering the 8 years. Because that Heiskanen deal would give him 9.07M as a comparable.

He is proably offering 6 years at maximum, because Seider can't match Makar and Hughes as comparables anyhow. Those guys are putting points almost double more per game. Point-scoring isn't everything, but those guys will beat Seider also in total ice-time from their ELC seasons.

Only 5 year deal comparable is Rasmus Sandin, from same draft class. And this deal has some weight. Seider is better on production and plays a larger role, so definitely he is gonna get more than Sandin, that's obvious.

These short deals like 2 or 3 years are always cheap for RFAs, but I don't expect them to happen. 4 years does carry him straight to UFA. Don't see that happen either.

But these 5-6 years, Hedman-styled 2nd deals, is what I see Yzerman is targeting for. Caphit will probably be a steal, like Makar deal is, and that's what Stevie wants to spread around the whole roster. Agents can't do anything for it, when you select the right terms, with best team-friendly comparables.

Offering him 6 years so he hits UFA at 28 to shave a couple mil off his contract in the short term would be stupid, IMO.

I'd rather just give him 8x8 and lock him up until he is 30/31 years old. In a few years with the cap going up, it will be more than fine.

 

[kook10]

Agreed. It's a cynical view but honestly if he's going to have an "off" year this is the one to do it with a new contract coming.

I think the biggest issue is trying to do too much himself. I can understand the impulse when the team is getting shelled but these guys need to trust one another. Him going behind the net after Rantanen on the Lekhonen goal is a perfect example.

Rantanen is camped out behind the net. Biz even pointed out that Walman should've been the one challenging Rantanen because Lyon has Walman's post covered and you generally want to force the guy behind the net to make a play on his backhand. Walman is covering Rantanen's forehand side so is closer to the puck.

Walman does nothing so Seider leaves his man wide open to challenge. Raymond and Ras aren't able to get there in time to cover Lekhonen, the pass gets thru Walman and it's a slam dunk.

His two penalties were kind of flukey but at least one of them Seider is in front of his own net and really needs to whack the loose puck to the boards but he goes for a clear instead and it's up and over the glass. He's 22 and he's not Nick Lidstrom. He's not gonna make the perfect play every time, but he's still learning.

He needs some Seal training. Under fire, he panics a little bit in the D zone. And on the opposite side of that same coin, he gets overconfident on the O zone and tries stupid drop passes on the blue line or leads the rush to go die in the corner. We need him somewhere in the middle with some poise.