HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 2

[Spring in Fialta]

Did he actually recommend Alzner or did Bergevin simply do whatever he wanted. There were plenty of success stories, so are we also crediting him with Danault, Dach, Tatar among others. And it's not just the moves we made but the non-moves, was passing on PLD because our scouting staff was saying he's not that good?

In the end there's too much we don't know which is why the GM bears responsibility for things because if the scouting he's getting from his staff is bad, he's the one who needs to hire better ones.

Anyways in terms of the article itself, glad to hear that they are working closely with the analytics department and the focus isn't just on whether someone is good/bad but they are looking at the environment, how going to Habs would impact the player, and how a player fits into where we are in the rebuild.

The only reason we passed on Dubois is because Winnipeg did not accept our offer. Hughes was going to give him a bag.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The only reason we passed on Dubois is because Winnipeg did not accept our offer. Hughes was going to give him a bag.

No way to know that. we don't even know if Hughes made an offer. And if he did it would have been futures which the Jets had no interest in if there was a choice.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No way to know that. we don't even know if Hughes made an offer. And if he did it would have been futures which the Jets had no interest in if there was a choice.

It was reported by The Athletic after the trade. If Winnipeg had accepted Montreal's deal and let Hughes get the final holler at him, he was offering a contract similar (if not a bit more) than what Suzuki and Caufield got and was going to sell him on tax loopholes and media opportunities to make even more money.

They wanted him. They got outbid and dodged a bullet. It happens.

 

[Rapala]

This is a Super Important department going forward.
We will certainly be trying to compete next season and we have a number of roles that need serious upgrades.
I don't think they can all be filled internally.
I've always felt Marty's third season would be the show me year.

Kent has to find a way to make room while freeing up more cap.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

It was reported by The Athletic after the trade. If Winnipeg had accepted Montreal's deal and let Hughes get the final holler at him, he was offering a contract similar (if not a bit more) than what Suzuki and Caufield got and was going to sell him on tax loopholes and media opportunities to make even more money.

They wanted him. They got outbid and dodged a bullet. It happens.

Don't comsider the Athletic relaiable but even so it was probably future which the Jets didn't want. Now it could have gone through if Dubois hadn't opened up the bidding.

 

[Sorinth]

The only reason we passed on Dubois is because Winnipeg did not accept our offer. Hughes was going to give him a bag.

And the only reason we didn't offer more was because Hughes didn't think he was worth all that much to trade for him. Whether that conclusion was Hughes's own scouting/vision or the result of the pro-scouting is anybody's guess.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

And the only reason we didn't offer more was because Hughes didn't think he was worth all that much to trade for him. Whether that conclusion was Hughes's own scouting/vision or the result of the pro-scouting is anybody's guess.

Yes, the Habs were not comfortable giving up what they considered a core piece (Suzuki/Caufield/Guhle/Slaf/Dach) which looks to have been the right move. But they clearly valued the player himself as they were willing to give him big dollars.

Don't comsider the Athletic relaiable but even so it was probably future which the Jets didn't want. Now it could have gone through if Dubois hadn't opened up the bidding.

I mean, if you want to go one further, who doesn't remember Hughes smiling and going 'Well, of course if a young top-6 center is on the market we'd be interested...' when asked about Dubois after Brisson went on live TV and said Dubois would like to play in Montreal.

But yes, they were only going to deal in pure
futures, which Winnipeg was not interested in.

And The Athletic is reliable. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Sorinth]

Yes, the Habs were not comfortable giving up what they considered a core piece (Suzuki/Caufield/Guhle/Slaf/Dach) which looks to have been the right move. But they clearly valued the player himself as they were willing to give him big dollars.

According to PLD and his agent the Habs never discussed terms so we actually have no idea whether they were willing to give him big dollars or not.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

According to PLD and his agent the Habs never discussed terms so we actually have no idea whether they were willing to give him big dollars or not.

Reported in the Athletic after the trade that if Hughes had gotten to discuss terms, an offer on par with Suzuki/Caufield was going to be offered with tax loopholes and media opportunities discussed to go out and get more bucks as a Hab.

I'm on mobile so don't have the link handy but it was there.

EDIT: Name of the article is Basu: Why the Canadiens couldn't make a Pierre-Luc Dubois deal work.

I was being conservative. The deal would have 'eclipsed' the Caufield/Suzuki deal.

 

[Sorinth]

Reported in the Athletic after the trade that if Hughes had gotten to discuss terms, an offer on par with Suzuki/Caufield was going to be offered with tax loopholes and media opportunities discussed to go out and get more bucks as a Hab.

I'm on mobile so don't have the link handy but it was there.

EDIT: Name of the article is Basu: Why the Canadiens couldn't make a Pierre-Luc Dubois deal work.

I was being conservative. The deal would have 'eclipsed' the Caufield/Suzuki deal.

And in the same article it says "But they were not willing to go much higher than that". So it seems like the limit was about 8m and on top of that they weren't willing to budge on the trade offer all of which points to a pro-scouting report that says he's just not worth what LA paid which in hindsight was the correct assessment.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

And in the same article it says "But they were not willing to go much higher than that". So it seems like the limit was about 8m and on top of that they weren't willing to budge on the trade offer all of which points to a pro-scouting report that says he's just not worth what LA paid which in hindsight was the correct assessment.

Of course. My point was that the Habs clearly had serious interest in the player. Obviously 'core piece + a massive bag' wasn't worth it. But clearly the Habs made a trade offer to the Jets (I mean we knew that a year before the trade) and clearly they would have liked to acquire Dubois. Which is all moot because if Dubois has been acquired and put up the dud he's put up this year, fans would be screaming no matter what we'd given up in a trade if the guy was putting up less than 30 points in over 60 games for 8 million or 8.5 or 7.8.

The truth is both Winnipeg (who also would have given him a massive contract had he accepted to stay) and Montreal were saved from themselves to different degrees. And I'm not saying this to criticize Hughes - I was all for acquiring Dubois. But that's a far cry from 'We don't even know if the Habs were interested' which always gets spewed around here.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

My understanding from what Savard said is there was a gap between what Bergevin said during the interviews and how he actually acted as a GM

Savard is a blowhard. Bergevin sucked, but Savard should’ve never been consulted in the first place. Bergevin didn’t even have high school ffs and we made him GM of a billion dollar business.

Absolutely agreed.......his giving Allen an extension with a 1M raise was eyebrow raising................and now the 3 headed net minder situation has just been dumb....dumb....dumb.
Other than that, the new regime seems to have us going forward in a better way.

Think you and most others applauded the deal at the time.

 

[BLONG7]

Savard is a blowhard. Bergevin sucked, but Savard should’ve never been consulted in the first place. Bergevin didn’t even have high school ffs and we made him GM of a billion dollar business.

Think you and most others applauded the deal at the time.

Never assume..............I did not like the deal. Current salary would have been fine..............the extra million was not shrewd at all.
So far, for me, his only glaring gaffe..........

 

[BLONG7]

The only reason we passed on Dubois is because Winnipeg did not accept our offer. Hughes was going to give him a bag.

Not so sure........but thank goodness, we dodged the PLD bullett.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Never assume..............I did not like the deal. Current salary would have been fine..............the extra million was not shrewd at all.
So far, for me, his only glaring gaffe..........

Interesting that you didn’t voice your displeasure at the time of the signing.

 

[BLONG7]

Interesting that you didn’t voice your displeasure at the time of the signing.

Not true...............was fine they kept him for 2 years, but couldn't understand the raise of another Million.......made no sense to me.
We lost you for awhile, what made you come out of hiding?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Not so sure........but thank goodness, we dodged the PLD bullett.

Read a couple posts above. He was.

 

[Laurentide]

No way to know that. we don't even know if Hughes made an offer. And if he did it would have been futures which the Jets had no interest in if there was a choice.

Hughes is smart enough to know that he had to at least pretend to show interest in PLD whether he had any real interest or not. It comes with the job.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Captain Mountain]

RIP, lost way too young.

 

[JianYang]

Reported in the Athletic after the trade that if Hughes had gotten to discuss terms, an offer on par with Suzuki/Caufield was going to be offered with tax loopholes and media opportunities discussed to go out and get more bucks as a Hab.

I'm on mobile so don't have the link handy but it was there.

EDIT: Name of the article is Basu: Why the Canadiens couldn't make a Pierre-Luc Dubois deal work.

I was being conservative. The deal would have 'eclipsed' the Caufield/Suzuki deal.

Sometimes, teams will make bad assessments, it happens. Having said that, PLD might come back next year and have a big rebound. He's just a flaky player to me.

I just hope management didn't feel pressured by external forces to get involved in this. That would pose a huge problem for me. The management should be able to stand on its two feet. You want the good moves to outweigh the bad moves, and do it on their vision and not anybody else's

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Hughes is smart enough to know that he had to at least pretend to show interest in PLD whether he had any real interest or not. It comes with the job.

Or maybe he was interested by the profile of a young 6'3 centermen who could pot 60 points.

It really doesn't take a conspiracy. You'd have to be a fool to not think the interest from the Habs legitimate. In fact, if it wasn't, I doubt Brisson would have shouted his client's preference from the rooftops in the first place. It was clearly a two-way street and trying to force Winnipeg into a move.

Sometimes, teams will make bad assessments, it happens. Having said that, PLD might come back next year and have a big rebound. He's just a flaky player to me.

I just hope management didn't feel pressured by external forces to get involved in this. That would pose a huge problem for me. The management should be able to stand on its two feet. You want the good moves to outweigh the bad moves, and do it on their vision and not anybody else's

I doubt it.

The truth is Winnipeg wanted to keep him too. You really don't have to squint to see why PLD was such a desirable asset.

 

[JianYang]

Or maybe he was interested by the profile of a young 6'3 centermen who could pot 60 points.

It really doesn't take a conspiracy. You'd have to be a fool to not think the interest from the Habs legitimate. In fact, if it wasn't, I doubt Brisson would have shouted his client's preference from the rooftops in the first place. It was clearly a two-way street and trying to force Winnipeg into a move.



I doubt it.

The truth is Winnipeg wanted to keep him too. You really don't have to squint to see why PLD was such a desirable asset.

The primary factor for ke was timing. I dibt think he wad the right call at this stage of their development path.

I was concerned about his enigmatic history, bit that was more icing on the cake.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The primary factor for ke was timing. I dibt think he wad the right call at this stage of their development path.

I was concerned about his enigmatic history, bit that was more icing on the cake.

Meh. We dodged a bullet but there's no development path to acquire talent. Acquiring talent in order is how you stay bad. Besides, he's in the same group as Suzuki and Caufield.

If young talent is available and you like them, you try and go for it. You don't game that stuff.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Meh. We dodged a bullet but there's no development path to acquire talent. Acquiring talent in order is how you stay bad. Besides, he's in the same group as Suzuki and Caufield.

If young talent is available and you like them, you try and go for it. You don't game that stuff.

True. It's when to add the vet final pieces that requires timing. The only reason to hesitate about Dubois is if you are worried abut his compete level.