HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 2

[JianYang]

Meh. We dodged a bullet but there's no development path to acquire talent. Acquiring talent in order is how you stay bad. Besides, he's in the same group as Suzuki and Caufield.

If young talent is available and you like them, you try and go for it. You don't game that stuff.

I disagree because it's a cap world.

The way I look at it is if you have the opportunity to pick up a surefire top 10 center..... sure, you have to take a serious look.

But in the case of Dubois, that's wasnt a realistic assumption. At the time of his availability, the Habs had Suzuki signed long term, and dach also in the equation. At the time, you didn't know exactly what you have at center as Suzuki and dach were still unfolding, and maybe Suzuki to a lesser extent today, but dach is still unfolding.

You give a big ticket to pld, and then realize that he is not any better than dach or Suzuki down the road or perhaps not even on their level. If there's no cap, sure, you have more flexibility.

But in the cap world, the timing is not right. The Habs should stay the course at the center position and get a better grasp of what they have barring an elite player falling on your lap.

Cap flexibility is a beautiful thing, and you don't want to spend precious cap space on a potentially redundant asset.

 

[Beer and Chips]

Allen is one less thing to worry about, good job.

 

[BLONG7]

True. It's when to add the vet final pieces that requires timing. The only reason to hesitate about Dubois is if you are worried abut his compete level.

PLD is being called Pretty Lazy Dude out in LA.
He has become and 8.5M dud.
We can be happy that ship sailed out to LA................

 

[Player 61]

Thx God we did not trade for PLd. Winnipeg Got ifalo and Vilardia for a . Steal! 2 workining guys for lazy is a steal!

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Allen is one less thing to worry about, good job.

There was nothing to worry about. He would have been moved in the off season. But it is one less thing for Hughes to do in the off season.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I disagree because it's a cap world.

The way I look at it is if you have the opportunity to pick up a surefire top 10 center..... sure, you have to take a serious look.

But in the case of Dubois, that's wasnt a realistic assumption. At the time of his availability, the Habs had Suzuki signed long term, and dach also in the equation. At the time, you didn't know exactly what you have at center as Suzuki and dach were still unfolding, and maybe Suzuki to a lesser extent today, but dach is still unfolding.

You give a big ticket to pld, and then realize that he is not any better than dach or Suzuki down the road or perhaps not even on their level. If there's no cap, sure, you have more flexibility.

But in the cap world, the timing is not right. The Habs should stay the course at the center position and get a better grasp of what they have barring an elite player falling on your lap.

Cap flexibility is a beautiful thing, and you don't want to spend precious cap space on a potentially redundant asset.

In Dubois' case the only way to acquire him was as a FA. Jets were not accepting futures and any trade moving NHL players would have been a lateral move at best.

 

[WeThreeKings]

There was nothing to worry about. He would have been moved in the off season. But it is one less thing for Hughes to do in the off season.

And an extra pick as ammunition now vs. what may have been dealt after the draft.

 

[Rapala]

And in the same article it says "But they were not willing to go much higher than that". So it seems like the limit was about 8m and on top of that they weren't willing to budge on the trade offer all of which points to a pro-scouting report that says he's just not worth what LA paid which in hindsight was the correct assessment.

Yeah we were never giving up any of our key pieces and we were not going to break the monetary ceiling established by Suzuki for a lesser player.
That was the logical stance taken on this board by a handful of regulars.
They wanted to debate that Dubois was the lesser player but an in depth assessment proved otherwise.
It's crazy to think this one trade may have saved the Jets franchise. (for now)

Sure Hughes made an offer but it would have been looked at as highway robbery at the time.
He didn't budge as a rebuilding organization and deserves kudos for not buying into the emotional hype.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I keep seeing a chubby 1980's version of Tully Blanchard everytime I see a picture of the guy. Old school wrestling has damaged my brain beyond repair.

 

[Rapala]

This thing is going to be totally scripted so I don't expect we'll get questions or answers about how they plan to be competitive next season.

Which is really the only thing I care about.

 

[DAChampion]

This thing is going to be totally scripted so I don't expect we'll get questions or answers about how they plan to be competitive next season.

Which is really the only thing I care about.

What do you want them to say?

They'll make a trade if they can negotiate a good deal?

 

[JoelWarlord]

I don't expect we'll get questions or answers about how they plan to be competitive next season.

Realistically they mostly likely don't. There are probably still too many holes and too much dead weight on the roster to go from bottom five to a playoff team in one offseason. I'm sure they plan to be more competitive next season relative to this season through young players developing, and they'll likely add a veteran forward to roughly replace what Monahan brought (probably a winger and not a C though), but I doubt they're aiming to build a playoff roster for next year and I don't expect to see major surgery this offseason.

It's a boring answer and I understand why people aren't overjoyed with the idea of just sitting around waiting but realistically that's the timeline they're on. They're planning to be active when guys like Hutson, Reinbacher, Beck, our 2024 1st rounder, etc. start filtering into the lineup and Slafkovsky establishes himself as a true first line scoring threat, and I don't think we're going to be out throwing money at Pesce/Montour/Teravainen etc to try and be in the playoffs next year.

I was hoping we'd be able to dig out of the rebuild quicker but I just don't think it's in the cards for next season. I do think we'll make some interesting moves (maybe Necas) but I wouldn't expect the roster to look radically different next year.

 

[Rapala]

What do you want them to say?

They'll make a trade if they can negotiate a good deal?

I don't know I'm not the one who claimed we wanted to be competitive next season.
I know what I'd like to see as our next step and it isn't running after Trevor Zegras.
Maybe just maybe getting a couple of honest to goodness blood and guts glue guys will go a lot further at this point.
You know maybe help solidate and protect some of the gains we have made.

 

[Tyson]

I don't know I'm not the one who claimed we wanted to be competitive next season.
I know what I'd like to see as our next step and it isn't running after Trevor Zegras.
Maybe just maybe getting a couple of honest to goodness blood and guts glue guys will go a lot further at this point.
You know maybe help solidate and protect some of the gains we have made.

Solidate...good word

 

[HuGo Sham]

I really like Jeff Gorton

 

[badfish]

I really like Jeff Gorton

Listening to this now and Pierre seems insecure in this podcast. It's distracting.

 

[ReHabs]

I was hoping we'd be able to dig out of the rebuild quicker but I just don't think it's in the cards for next season. I do think we'll make some interesting moves (maybe Necas) but I wouldn't expect the roster to look radically different next year.

As of writing the Habs have progressed in pts% year-on-year 0.335->0.415->0.456, GA/GP has gone down 3.87->3.72->3.43, the PP has improved 13.7->16.1->18.2. So there has been progress, we are on the verge of a better team. (PK% has gone 75.6->72.7->75.5 and GF/GP has gone 2.66->2.77->2.71... both hardly significant.)

Given all the 1 goal games primary or secondary scoring will have a big impact on our team's performances and results. Who knows how much of a positive impact that'll have on momentum, vibes, streaks, etc.

I'm really curious about how they envision digging out of this rebuild as well. I have a few observations:
1. Culture -- they think this is an x-factor which has a big impact. They haven't cut corners with this. You can see how Hughes is cultivating his reputation as a caring GM, it all feeds into the vibe. Letowski comes in to coach in MSL's absence and he talks on and on about how tight the room is -- it is a bit nauseating if you're expecting them to compete and win not just hug after victories... but Hughes and Gorton feel the latter leads to the former.
2. Patience -- They have a much longer-term view than we (or I) thought. I can't qualify this more than just mere observation and intuition but for all my years of following the Habs I never felt this uneasy about the GM and it isn't because he's bad -- Bergevin was not good at all but he was easy to hate, nothing uneasy about that -- it's because I really can't predict their moves or directions. They're really truly patient like I've never seen in Montreal. Remains to be seen if it's patience or complacence. We'll see in due course.

I got a lot of things wrong about their moves because I felt they were approaching things from a different perspective. I haven't had a chance to watch much hockey or comment on it since January but the TDL sucked me back in. This season is terribly boring, sorry, but guessing what these guys will do is a real mystery and it's been entertaining reading all your takes.

 

[BLONG7]

These guys have had to figure out how to get out of disaster zone left by MB, mainly horrible drafting and horrible contracts.
Draft and develop much much better, which would include developing talent that MB did pick.

Draft capital will be used mightily this summer I would imagine..............we are 2.5 years in and have gone through the worst................the plan and the process, primarily is all about 1st round talent, with getting lucky here and there in rounds 2-7
Better days ahead.

 

[Beer and Chips]

There was nothing to worry about. He would have been moved in the off season. But it is one less thing for Hughes to do in the off season.

Reading comprehension deficit strikes again but I guess you felt the need to post what I just said.

 

[Scintillating10]

I really like Jeff Gorton

Gorton really stunk in NY. Only reason team achieved success he had two future hall of famers wanted to sign there. His drafting was terrible.

 

[Leto]

 

[McGees]

goat

 

[Miller Time]

With how well the team has played since the Monahan trade, and how hard they compete every night, it's feeling more and more likely to me that KH will be aggressive this summer in upgrading the roster.

Not saying they will get stupid, but I do think their evaluation of how close this core is to being a playoff team has only increased in the back half of the year.

So nice to feel confident that the moves they do make will be thoughtful and consistent with their overall strategy...

Future is bright

 

[Treb]

With how well the team has played since the Monahan trade, and how hard they compete every night, it's feeling more and more likely to me that KH will be aggressive this summer in upgrading the roster.

Not saying they will get stupid, but I do think their evaluation of how close this core is to being a playoff team has only increased in the back half of the year.

So nice to feel confident that the moves they do make will be thoughtful and consistent with their overall strategy...

Future is bright

I think summer 2025 is the time.

Dvorak, Armia, Savard, Petry and Allen money all freed up.