Montador's family suing NHL over concussions

[LickTheEnvelope]

the fact that nobody fights in the playoffs proves how useless it really is. no need for it at all.

Not true, usually there's about 1 or 2 actual fights a series.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Fighting doesn't deter cheap shots.

Also, the league sometimes needs to step in for the player's safety as players have shown to not know what's best for themsleves. Players were originally against helmets. Just like how on a construction site nobody wants to wear their PPE.

Correction: Fighting used to deter a large amount of cheap shots but the instigator rule killed it somewhat.

That's like saying the Oilers riding Semeko along with Gretzky did absolutely nothing.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Correction: Fighting used to deter a large amount of cheap shots but the instigator rule killed it somewhat.

That's like saying the Oilers riding Semeko along with Gretzky did absolutely nothing.

It's almost like the game, and the society in which it takes place has changed in the slightest way.

 

[CherryToke]

Not true, usually there's about 1 or 2 actual fights a series.

1 or 2 per series? maybe in the 70's and 80's.

last season there were 7 fights/brawls in all of the playoffs and 3 of them were between the two worst teams in the playoffs. look at the players involved.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdXLCD5yMvwjYsQQa2eTvmuCmTz0B_Kv5

 

[Wisp]

Relevant article: http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/12/12/kinder-gentler-nhl-taking-shape-feschuk.html

It’s not there as much because skill is valued above all else now; because the league has cracked down on nastiness with the power of HD video replay; because third- and fourth-line bangers have often been replaced by faster, younger stock; because those younger players came up through junior ranks that have clamped down on mayhem; because players from opposing teams are friendlier with each other than they’ve ever been. The list goes on, to be sure.

it also goes on to explain players have more respect for their opponents as by product of familiarity through the NHLPA and offseason training

seems like a good indication why it's almost always show fights these days

 

[Mofletz]

^^

You have no idea what happens outside Canada/US.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

It's almost like the game, and the society in which it takes place has changed in the slightest way.

Cheap shots no longer exist in hockey? We might be watching different sports.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

1 or 2 per series? maybe in the 70's and 80's.

last season there were 7 fights/brawls in all of the playoffs and 3 of them were between the two worst teams in the playoffs. look at the players involved.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdXLCD5yMvwjYsQQa2eTvmuCmTz0B_Kv5

So we are somewhere in the middle. It's not "there's no fighting in the playoffs" and it's not (currently) one ever round but in 2015 there were 7, in 2014 there were 8, in 2013 there were 11, in 2012 there were 18, in 2011 there were 9, in 2010 there were 9...

There are 15 playoff series in a year... so we are closer certainly closer to one a round than zero.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

It's amazing how much opinions have changed in a decade and how politically correct this age is.

Pretty sure I'm done as a hockey fan if they remove fighting. Heck aside from fantasy, I barely watch now as it is.

 

[Intangibos]

It's amazing how much opinions have changed in a decade and how politically correct this age is.

Pretty sure I'm done as a hockey fan if they remove fighting. Heck aside from fantasy, I barely watch now as it is.

I just don't understand how they think removing fighting will help *anything*

It won't prevent concussions from hits
Players are under no obligation to fight at all
Players who get paid to fight who you're trying to protect will just be left without a job, although they're a dying breed anyway.

Fighting is literally a non issue. You don't want to fight because you might get a concussion, then just don't do it. If you drop your gloves, you know the risks and find them acceptable. You don't get to change your mind after you lost the bet.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

I just don't understand how they think removing fighting will help *anything*

It won't prevent concussions from hits
Players are under no obligation to fight at all
Players who get paid to fight who you're trying to protect will just be left without a job, although they're a dying breed anyway.

Fighting is literally a non issue. You don't want to fight because you might get a concussion, then just don't do it. If you drop your gloves, you know the risks and find them acceptable. You don't get to change your mind after you lost the bet.

It's a convenient way of not addressing real problems while feeling like something is being accomplished.

 

[Jyrki21]

The idea that fighting is more popular among American viewers is just an example of selection bias. Since hockey is by far the most covered and discussed sport in Canada (to the point of CBC injecting it into seemingly like 80% of its programming), the sorts of people with views on it are mainstream sports fans, so you get a pretty broad cross-section of opinion.

In the U.S., most people don't watch hockey, so a higher proportion of the viewership that does is going to be made up of those that gravitate toward it specifically for the fighting. If you were to survey U.S. sports fans across the board I'll bet you would find a lot more that find it repugnant. My non-survey-based opinion is that Canadians are waaaay more likely to justify fighting just because they have been repeatedly fed the lie that it is necessary or "part of the game".

And no, hockey isn't special where the players have to "police themselves" because they don't in literally any other team sport in the Western world. Including those with loads of contact and physicality.

And no, it's not specifically necessary for stick sports (interesting that the example used above is lacrosse, the other quintessentially Canadian sport... hmm...). I know fights have happened in hurling (but I don't think they're handled with a slap-on-the-wrist penalty), but you don't see them in field lacrosse, field hockey or broomball or floorball or bandy. Nor in ice hockey in most of the world over outside of North America.

And if it actually deterred or prevented cheap shots, then how come they've kept happening over the last century of hockey? (If anything, hockey was dirtier when fighting was more common). Everyone keeps "sending messages", and yet (to paraphrase Leonard Cohen) they keep waiting for the message so loud and clear they'll never need to send another. It doesn't happen. It just makes your opponent respond harder – it's classic game theory.

The excuses made for this absurd facet of the game were pretty evidently false to me even as a kid, and they continue to be so to this day. I don't even see the place in the game for spontaneous fights, frankly – act like an adult. I can accept that they sometimes happen (they do in basketball and baseball too from time to time, after all), but that doesn't actually mean they are intrinsic to the game or actually add anything.

If the rules and the officiating in every other sport, including contact sports, including stick sports, manage to deal with this without vigilantism, hockey has no excuse. The problem lies in the rules and their enforcement, as it does in all security dilemma-type scenarios. When you give Duncan Keith a minor suspension for an intentional act that could literally kill someone, you're acting as an enabler, and that's where the change has to happen. (I imagine this underenforcement plays into why NHLers supposedly overwhelmingly support fighting – I also think there are plenty who don't, but don't want to be labelled wimps or be seen as trying to put some of their teammates out of work).