Montador's family suing NHL over concussions
- Thread starter ChilliBilly
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Canucker
Go Hawks!
You can get concussions playing full contact sports? Who knew? 
And yet if you asked most, they'd do it knowing full well the consequences of playing the sport....but I'm sure Montador is the only one who wouldn't have chosen the career path if he knew the consequences.
And yet if you asked most, they'd do it knowing full well the consequences of playing the sport....but I'm sure Montador is the only one who wouldn't have chosen the career path if he knew the consequences.
VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
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Good **** the NHL.
I disagree with the fighting aspect but scott stevens (and similar players) being praised for being a piece of **** for a decade was unbelievable.
I disagree with the fighting aspect but scott stevens (and similar players) being praised for being a piece of **** for a decade was unbelievable.
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RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
You can get concussions playing full contact sports? Who knew?
And yet if you asked most, they'd do it knowing full well the consequences of playing the sport....but I'm sure Montador is the only one who wouldn't have chosen the career path if he knew the consequences.
Just like no one drinks & drives anymore because everyone knows the consequences? Not sure if that's the best example, but every player knows their may be consequences, but it's impossible to actually know the full extend of life with severe PCS until it actually walks up and hits you in the face.
Everyone makes these sorts of decisions in life, those things where you hear about bad stuff that happened to other people doing the same thing, but you go ahead thinking it will never happen to you. Not necessarily because you're lying to yourself but rather it would just be outright impractical to live like that. This can cover everything from deciding to drink & drive to taking a trip to Mexico to getting in your car and driving to work. If/when the **** actually does hit the fan that's where the courts can help.
And you're kind of sticking your foot in the mouth by not being familiar with the case in question, but Steve Montador is dead. It's his family that is sueing.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
If players understand there are possible consequences for playing sports, why do they continue? 1) They love the game and are willing to take the risk and 2) they make millions of dollars playing said game. Personal accountability.
Yes, Steve Montador is dead and his death is linked to concussions, and perhaps the NHL could have done more, but perhaps the NHLPA could have done more as well? Perhaps the players themselves could have done more individually? Making the league the scapegoat for this is a joke...and I don't typically take their side with anything.
Intangibos
High-End Intangibos
I don't like this. Montador knew what he was doing. At worst people didn't realize the long term effects of concussions but that's not the NHL's responsibility. It's sad that this happened but he knew the rules of the game and the risks, he should have been able to make his own decision. It's not up to the NHL to reduce the weight of the puck because sometimes people get hit with it.
There are people all around the world playing hockey without getting paid for it, or peanuts compared to NHLers. They know the risks as well but they play the game anyway because they love the game the way it is. Are MMA fighters going to sue the UFC in 15 years because of concussions?
There are people all around the world playing hockey without getting paid for it, or peanuts compared to NHLers. They know the risks as well but they play the game anyway because they love the game the way it is. Are MMA fighters going to sue the UFC in 15 years because of concussions?
PG Canuck
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Are you sure? Canada seems to love it just as much...let's not act innocent here.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
For a long time, fighting was always used as the excuse as to why hockey would never be very big in the US.
PG Canuck
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Funny how fast opinions change. Now it's just "pandering to Americans" but yet I see Canadian arenas (Vancouver included) pretty damn excited when a fight breaks out, but lets not ruin some people's agendas now. 
Canucker
Go Hawks!
Yup, if just have to look at our own (GM)market....Canucks are too soft "Lets get Dorsett!", he fights as much (or more) than anyone in the league....but wait! Thats not enough, lets double down and bring in Brandon Prust, another guy who fights more than virtually everyone else in the league. But we're not blood thirsty, we just value "toughness"
Personally, I'm not a fan of these types of players or their roles at all...but as long as dinosaur GM's exist they'll be around.
PG Canuck
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Yup, if just have to look at our own (GM)market....Canucks are too soft "Lets get Dorsett!", he fights as much (or more) than anyone in the league....but wait! Thats not enough, lets double down and bring in Brandon Prust, another guy who fights more than virtually everyone else in the league. But we're not blood thirsty, we just value "toughness"
Personally, I'm not a fan of these types of players or their roles at all...but as long as dinosaur GM's exist they'll be around.
Yeah, quite ridiculous.
American fans want more scoring, now that I would believe over wanting more fighting. Even then, Canadians seem to want more scoring too. I'm not a fan of Prust/Dorsett either because they only partake in staged fights...now that is pointless garbage. I'm fine with fighting in the game as long as it's not just used for staged fights off the faceoff because two boneheads need to meet a quota for fights to look like they are sticking up for their teammates.Everyone has their opinion on fighting, so I don't really want to argue it as it usually leads nowhere good - I just want staged fights to be on the past...pointless, waste of time.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
Yeah, quite ridiculous.
Everyone has their opinion on fighting, so I don't really want to argue it as it usually leads nowhere good - I just want staged fights to be on the past...pointless, waste of time.
Agreed on all points.
a Fool
Emperor has no picks
- Mar 14, 2014
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Hockey is a contact sport and there will always be risk of concussions. However, the NHL has not done enough to protect players via concussion protocol, equipment regulations, and rules. Also, NHL discipline is a biased joke and has been for years. The lawyers are going to have a lot of footage to work with.
All in all I hope the NHL owners lose a lot of money over this. Hopefully this leads to proactive change in limiting concussions and head trauma and not simply more reactive policies that the NHL often rolls out to pretend they care about player safety.
All in all I hope the NHL owners lose a lot of money over this. Hopefully this leads to proactive change in limiting concussions and head trauma and not simply more reactive policies that the NHL often rolls out to pretend they care about player safety.
Samzilla
Prust & Dorsett are
- Apr 2, 2011
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Pierre Mcguire gave an interesting story on 1040 today. He said Milbury used to call him "soccer mom" for his stance on fighting in hockey. Then Milbury went to an ol' Broons reunion and was shocked at the mental state of some of his old teammates. Ever since then, Milbury hasn't called Mcguire "soccer mom".
Pip
Registered User
fighting is bizarre. it's almost like watching a different sport clumsily super-imposed on top of hockey. You could turn power plays into pingpong matches and it would make as much sense as having fighting in hockey. They belong together like nuts and gum.
Fights don't help you do anything in hockey either. They don't score you points, just penalties. It doesn't deter cheap shots and it doesn't fire anyone up - two ancient dumb hockey conventions that have been proven false by modern analysis . It just needlessly exposes young people brain damage.
I can accept hockey is a contact sport that will inflict concussions. But if players are going to have concussions, let them get them playing hockey. Not that weird, separate ice fighting sport crudely superimposed on top of the game.
Fights don't help you do anything in hockey either. They don't score you points, just penalties. It doesn't deter cheap shots and it doesn't fire anyone up - two ancient dumb hockey conventions that have been proven false by modern analysis . It just needlessly exposes young people brain damage.
I can accept hockey is a contact sport that will inflict concussions. But if players are going to have concussions, let them get them playing hockey. Not that weird, separate ice fighting sport crudely superimposed on top of the game.
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ChilliBilly
Registered User
Just want to make my position clear:
I understand that Montador's condition may have nothing to do with fighting.
I agree that the NHL has been better about trying to reduce the damage from concussions compared to the NFL (reading League of denial right now).
Polls that were reported in the news 30 or 40 years ago stated that 80 % of American fans wanted to keep fighting,vs about half in Canada. That may have changed, haven't seen a recent poll.
Regardless, some players make a career out of fighting (or used to). I want this disgusting aspect of hockey gone. It isn't allowed in any other Pro league outside of N America, or the Olympics, or World championships.
What other sport allows the players to "police" the game? Are the refs not competent to handle this?
And I hate seeing a clean hit end up in a goon fest. Dirty hits should result in suspensions and fines, not a fight to see who was right.
And as I said originally - it results in unnecessary injuries, many of them concussions.
Edit 1 - Ok found a study from a US rag that says in the US its still 80 - 20 (http://www.latinpost.com/articles/2...-national-hockey-league-ban-fighting-poll.htm )
I understand that Montador's condition may have nothing to do with fighting.
I agree that the NHL has been better about trying to reduce the damage from concussions compared to the NFL (reading League of denial right now).
Polls that were reported in the news 30 or 40 years ago stated that 80 % of American fans wanted to keep fighting,vs about half in Canada. That may have changed, haven't seen a recent poll.
Regardless, some players make a career out of fighting (or used to). I want this disgusting aspect of hockey gone. It isn't allowed in any other Pro league outside of N America, or the Olympics, or World championships.
What other sport allows the players to "police" the game? Are the refs not competent to handle this?
And I hate seeing a clean hit end up in a goon fest. Dirty hits should result in suspensions and fines, not a fight to see who was right.
And as I said originally - it results in unnecessary injuries, many of them concussions.
Edit 1 - Ok found a study from a US rag that says in the US its still 80 - 20 (http://www.latinpost.com/articles/2...-national-hockey-league-ban-fighting-poll.htm )
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PG Canuck
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Problem is the NHL and refs can't police the games themselves. And those polls are meh to me. Watch the games, and tell me an NHL rink that is booing fights when they occur or name me an NHL arena where fans are sitting down in their seats silently/booing when fights/scrums breakout. If you can name one, I'll be utterly shocked and would need evidence. I'd say that trumps whatever random polls they have conducted.
And those polls are meh to me. Watch the games, and tell me an NHL rink that is booing fights when they occur or name me an NHL arena where fans are sitting down in their seats silently/booing when fights/scrums breakout. If you can name one, I'll be utterly shocked and would need evidence. I'd say that trumps whatever random polls they have conducted.
Pip
Registered User
Problem is the NHL and refs can't police the games themselves.
Goons don't police the game either and serve no purpose. Nobody is going to change the way they play because they may have to fight someone. If most of these guys don't play borderline dirty, then they don't have jobs.
PG Canuck
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I'm not saying otherwise. I'm mostly discussing the point that fighting is still in the game to "pander to the Americans" which I think is 100% unfair judgement, because yet I see every rink in Canada excited when fights occur. But hey, this poll said blah blah....
Goons are slowly being weeded out, and in 5-7 years, I think the Dorsett's and Prust's of the hockey world will be extinct. The game is evolving to a more skill oriented game and the Prust's and Dorsett's won't be able to keep up and are already having issues. The Sestito's are virtually gone.
ChilliBilly
Registered User
Problem is the NHL and refs can't police the games themselves.
1 - yes they can, they do it in every other hockey league. With no problem.
And the fact that its popular is completely missing the point. We have injured and dead players because the league condones this primitive idiocy.
And personally I would be fine with some thing like the following:
Instigator is 2 minutes and a game + plus sit a game.
No instigator - it is staged, both get a game. (if its in the last 10 minutes they both get an additional game)
If its retaliation, I am fine with both getting just getting 5 minute majors, as long as a major penalty is called on one team for the original incident. (and no equalling out penalties).
If it retaliation for a minor penalty, The instigator get 2 minutes and the rest of the game (no additional game suspension.)
There should be no way for the refs to duck their obligation and even things out.
Edit - by the way, have you ever played hockey, or just watched it?
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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the argument is, and has always been, that you can't hold a player accountable for playing hurt. that's the responsibility of the organization, its coaching staff, and its medical staff to "save" a player from himself. because a player will almost always want to be out there, for fear of losing his job, or at the very least can almost always be coerced by the implied threat of losing his job by his coach or GM.
so the lack of adequate concussion protocols on a systemic league-wide level for generations, and less than totally forthcoming information delivered to players about their cranial health, is definitely the league's fault, at least legally, or at least that's the legal argument from the side of the players and PA.
to say he "knew the risks" is to completely misunderstand the legal issue here. this is a workplace safety issue. in the same way that if a mine collapses, you don't just say "well the miners knew the risks."
As a parent would you want your kids playing this sport? In my job I see a lot of kids and its staggering the number of concussions these kids have had from age 13-18. One 15 year old has had 4 already.
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