Montador's family suing NHL over concussions

[Pip]

Take out fighting and the game will become incredibly dirty and chippy. If the players want fighting in the game, which they do, then leave it in. The players opinions trump the concerned fans complaining

Fighting doesn't deter cheap shots.

Also, the league sometimes needs to step in for the player's safety as players have shown to not know what's best for themsleves. Players were originally against helmets. Just like how on a construction site nobody wants to wear their PPE.

 

[Canucker]

So what your saying is, you don't believe there has been any gained knowledge about the affect of concussions from the time Montador enetered the NHL to the time he tragically died. What an incredibly stupid thing to believe.

How could this statement "repetitive head injuries and their dangers were well known for years before Steve Montador even played an NHL game" and "What you don't seem to understand is...who gives a **** if CTE wasn't a widely used term, or completely understood, it's STILL not completely understood" both be true? Either they were already know 20 years ago, or they're STILL not known. How can it be both?

It would be an incredibly stupid thing to believe, however I never said that or even implied it, but since reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit, let me assist you by making a simple concept even simpler....

Head injuries 30 years ago (termed being "Punch drunk") = bad
Head injuries 20 years ago (termed a "concussion") = bad
Head injuries 10 years ago (the popular term was "PCS, Post Concussion Syndrome") = bad
Head injuries 5 years ago (CTE is the new terminology) = bad

See, the common idea here is that head injuries have been known to be significantly damaging for many, many years....yes, they have learned more and more throughout the years obviously, but the results haven't changed, head injuries are bad.

On to lesson #2, are you able to understand something without knowing every detail? Concussions have been studied for multiple decades, it's fairly common knowledge (at least i had thought so) that concussions (especially repeated concussions) could cause serious, permanent damage...yet since they don't understand all the causation (ie why some people aren't as affected by repeated head injuries as others), how to repair damage and/or how to mitigate the damage, they still study CTE and concussions.

Rocket Science 101, you're welcome.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Everyone wants to get rid of the fighting except for people ACTUALLY PLAYING THE DAMN GAME! Fighting is being phased out naturally as it is. Let it happen that way. Or let the players decide if it stays. Also suing a league for allowing fighting that the player got into on his own accord is like suing a Province or State that doesn't have helmet laws after you crash your motorcycle and crack your head open. It's your own damn fault.

I hope you are aware that is not what's happening here.

 

[Captain Bowie]

It would be an incredibly stupid thing to believe, however I never said that or even implied it, but since reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit, let me assist you by making a simple concept even simpler....

Head injuries 30 years ago (termed being "Punch drunk") = bad
Head injuries 20 years ago (termed a "concussion") = bad
Head injuries 10 years ago (the popular term was "PCS, Post Concussion Syndrome") = bad
Head injuries 5 years ago (CTE is the new terminology) = bad

See, the common idea here is that head injuries have been known to be significantly damaging for many, many years....yes, they have learned more and more throughout the years obviously, but the results haven't changed, head injuries are bad.

On to lesson #2, are you able to understand something without knowing every detail? Concussions have been studied for multiple decades, it's fairly common knowledge (at least i had thought so) that concussions (especially repeated concussions) could cause serious, permanent damage...yet since they don't understand all the causation (ie why some people aren't as affected by repeated head injuries as others), how to repair damage and/or how to mitigate the damage, they still study CTE and concussions.

Rocket Science 101, you're welcome.

So what you're saying is... They have gained knowledge about the affects of concussions (How "bad" they are to use your terminology) over the years, especially in the last 5 or 10 years. And that there is still more to know, and that players in future generations will be more armed with information that players of past or present?

Then I would have to agree. I just found a less pompous, arrogant way to say it. But if that's NOT what you are saying... because ya know, the overused "reading comprehension" insult... then we can continue to argue if you wish.

 

[Canucker]

So what you're saying is... They have gained knowledge about the affects of concussions (How "bad" they are to use your terminology) over the years, especially in the last 5 or 10 years. And that there is still more to know, and that players in future generations will be more armed with information that players of past or present?

Then I would have to agree. I just found a less pompous, arrogant way to say it. But if that's NOT what you are saying... because ya know, the overused "reading comprehension" insult... then we can continue to argue if you wish.

You are the one who jumped up my ass to start this, don't get all whiney when I come back at you.

But yes, that is basically what I am saying.

 

[Captain Bowie]

You are the one who jumped up my ass to start this, don't get all whiney when I come back at you.

I "jumped up your ass" (gross) because you original post was dismissive of the issues of concussions or the league's responsibilities to protect their players from such, and acted disrespectful towards human beings who have lost their LIVES playing the game they love.

It appears we are done here.

 

[racerjoe]

But even if we like the fights born out of passion (which I do enjoy myself), why do we allow them? If there is a concern for a person's safety, shouldn't ALL fighting be removed? The fighting isn't necessary, no good to either player will come of it. Shouldn't our enjoyment come 2nd to a player's safety?

If we are concerned for their safety first and foremost should we not remove all contact? How many head injuries result from clean hits, or dirty hits?

I don't mean to advocate for fights I really don't, I just didn't want to be hypocritical when I enjoy them, I also don't advocate taking hitting out of the game, I am just trying to say I don't think it is so simple.

 

[Canucker]

I "jumped up your ass" (gross) because you original post was dismissive of the issues of concussions or the league's responsibilities to protect their players from such, and acted disrespectful towards human beings who have lost their LIVES playing the game they love.

It appears we are done here.

It appears not...once again, you have placed your own agenda into my words...I wasn't being "dismissive" I was being real. But I guess real isn't what people want to hear, they want to point a finger, issue blame...especially at a big corporation that makes money off the blood, sweat and tears of others...and normally that would be the side I'd have taken...but there are a lot of people (and groups) who have to accept blame for this...starting with the players themselves, especially ones who seem to relish pounding each other with their fists. The NHLPA, a union who is made up of players should be looking to protect their membership's personal safety ahead of salary caps and wages, but do they? No, they don't. And I never absolved the NHL of any sin or wrong in this, I just don't feel that they are the only group that should be demonized in this matter.

And as for being "disrespectful" to players who lost their lives playing the game they loved...where did that happen? How was I disrespectful? Because I think you are creating something where there is nothing simply because you just don't like me because I bailed on your pool.

 

[Captain Bowie]

simply because you just don't like me because I bailed on your pool.

That is truly worthy of a . Honestly I completely forgot about that. But think what you will. Pretend what you want.

 

[Canucker]

If we are concerned for their safety first and foremost should we not remove all contact? How many head injuries result from clean hits, or dirty hits?

I don't mean to advocate for fights I really don't, I just didn't want to be hypocritical when I enjoy them, I also don't advocate taking hitting out of the game, I am just trying to say I don't think it is so simple.

No, I agree with you...there is a slippery slope here when it comes to player safety...when you have a full contact sport played at high speed you cannot make it completely safe...but if the league is going to get sued whenever someone thinks they haven't made it safe enough, what are they going to do? I think fighting should be removed altogether if they truly want to push player safety.

 

[Canucker]

That is truly worthy of a . Honestly I completely forgot about that. But think what you will. Pretend what you want.

I knew that was what you'd focus on, not actually trying to show me where I had actually been disrespectful...

 

[Captain Bowie]

I knew that was what you'd focus on, not actually trying to show me where I had actually been disrespectful...

I tried, I failed, I moved on. I "focused" on the newest ridiculous statement.

 

[Canucker]

I tried, I failed, I moved on. I "focused" on the newest ridiculous statement.

Apology accepted.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I posted this originally.

My intent was the following:

1 - Fighting is ignorant barbaric and unnecessary in any sport (boxing etc obviously not included)

2 - Concussions will happen in hockey. they shouldn't happen because of fighting. Its just not necessary.

3 - Hockey is a contact sport. But dirty shots like D Sedin getting elbowed and only a 5 game suspension for D Keith was ludicrous. If it had been Crosby ...

4 - the league has been aware of this issue, but slow to act. After Naslund was injured, it was part of the process where the league deemed hits targeting the head they did something. They don't want to get rid of fighting because (IMHO) it helps sell the game in the states. It does not need selling in Canada. I hope they pay a expensive penalty for this delay.

I have been against fighting for about 45 years. I consider it about as useful to hockey as roman gladiators are to entertainment.

edit - D sedin missed 8 games from the injury, only came back because of the playoffs. His play was noticeably affected in terms of production for a year. Thats ********. D Keith missed 5 games.

 

[biturbo19]

It's neat how the players with the most frequent and legitimate grievances with the NHL on the concussion issue...are the very same players who would never have ever made it to the NHL level if not for the fighting and the physical play.


Go figure...

 

[bbud]

At the time of the Naslund hit I remember arguing with my dad that it wasn't a penalty, but should be, he thought it should have been a penalty. And they did do something about it: they made hits to the head far more serious then they had been.

I believe those changes came in as others suffered similar hits resulting in injury and unfortunately i dont think it weighed on the NHL until the Bertuzzi/Moore incident if they had of offered some penalty for the first infraction the second likely never occurs .
I said at the time of Naslund being hit what will it take someone getting killed well almost.
And as another poster here noted Sedin hit by Kieth was only worthy of 5 games and that was much later and a definite attempt to injure the NHL has left itself open to being sued and these are a couple of examples 2 years ago another Canucks player career ended no call even after league review it cant be surprising they are seeing lawsuits id expect many more and many will not be about fighting.
Selling the game became more important than the people playing it certainly is a violent sport i played i hit i fought but with due respect and never attempting to injure some will continue to do that no matter what rules exist so maybe far harsher penalties and suspension could help .
Just ny 2 cents but if players know theres a high cost to playing that way it may help second if the NHL gets hit with a few big losses in court it will take note.
I dont think hitting or fighting will be eliminated it sells .

 

[ChilliBilly]

I believe those changes came in as others suffered similar hits resulting in injury and unfortunately i dont think it weighed on the NHL until the Bertuzzi/Moore incident if they had of offered some penalty for the first infraction the second likely never occurs .
I said at the time of Naslund being hit what will it take someone getting killed well almost.
And as another poster here noted Sedin hit by Kieth was only worthy of 5 games and that was much later and a definite attempt to injure the NHL has left itself open to being sued and these are a couple of examples 2 years ago another Canucks player career ended no call even after league review it cant be surprising they are seeing lawsuits id expect many more and many will not be about fighting.
Selling the game became more important than the people playing it certainly is a violent sport i played i hit i fought but with due respect and never attempting to injure some will continue to do that no matter what rules exist so maybe far harsher penalties and suspension could help .
Just ny 2 cents but if players know theres a high cost to playing that way it may help second if the NHL gets hit with a few big losses in court it will take note.
I dont think hitting or fighting will be eliminated it sells .

Agreed.

If the league had been more proactive, like it should be with fighting, they would less likely to be liable.

The problem with the Naslund hit was the players tried to take it into their own hands ....

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Everyone wants to get rid of the fighting except for people ACTUALLY PLAYING THE DAMN GAME! Fighting is being phased out naturally as it is. Let it happen that way. Or let the players decide if it stays. Also suing a league for allowing fighting that the player got into on his own accord is like suing a Province or State that doesn't have helmet laws after you crash your motorcycle and crack your head open. It's your own damn fault.

to me the interesting thing after reading so many interviews with former designated fighters from the 80s and 90s is that everybody who plays hockey wants to keep fighting except for the people ACTUALLY FIGHTING THE MAJORITY OF THE FIGHTS1

i say this, by the way, as someone who doesn't actually have an opinion about whether there should or should not be fighting in pro hockey.

 

[CherryToke]

the fact that nobody fights in the playoffs proves how useless it really is. no need for it at all.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Fighting doesn't bother me as long as its not staged or a clear mismatch.

However nothing pisses me off more than people having to fight after a clean hit.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Fighting doesn't bother me as long as its not staged or a clear mismatch.

However nothing pisses me off more than people having to fight after a clean hit.

Personally, one of my biggest pet peeves with todays game.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Personally, one of my biggest pet peeves with todays game.

I somewhat get the reasoning for fighting on a dirty hit level, even if I think it's bunk. Sbisa having to fight Peluso because Ehlers couldn't keep his head up was ******** and the refs should have stepped in immediately.

 

[Verviticus]

It's neat how the players with the most frequent and legitimate grievances with the NHL on the concussion issue...are the very same players who would never have ever made it to the NHL level if not for the fighting and the physical play.


Go figure...

haha yeah how dare they die. *******s

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Stick sports have fighting allowed to dissuade against flagrant use of the stick which is incredibly hard for referees to police, especially cheap shots. This is well known if you've played hockey.

Same as in Lacrosse:

 

[Ryp37]

Fighting doesn't deter cheap shots.

Also, the league sometimes needs to step in for the player's safety as players have shown to not know what's best for themsleves. Players were originally against helmets. Just like how on a construction site nobody wants to wear their PPE.

If someone cheap shots a player that team will try to get back at that player, this isn't peewee where they "show them on the scoreboard"

Take out fighting and they'll fight anyways or you'll see a chippier game with more retaliation in the form of dirty hits