GDT: Monahan returns to Calgary (Habs @ Flames 12/1/22)

[BRobMint]

 

[Bounces R Way]

LA just waived theirs. Ik they have NMCs but Lucic doesn't have to be a regular.

This team just brings it on themselves. I agree though, I don't see a playoff team here.

That's because they were just involved in a game where they gave up 9 goals and scored 8. You do nothing after that and you're asking to be fired.

We gave up 2 and scored 1. We scored 1 f***ing goal! Against the Habs, a team TRYING TO BE BAD!!!!!!! A team that was outscored 10-0 their last two games. Sit Lucic sit whoever but until this team's top 6 forwards start acting like it it won't make a difference.

No, no they don't. Sullivan in Pittsburgh is testament to modern coaches actually valuing wins over the dinosaur era apocryphal shit that comes from Sutter. When their franchise cup winning goalie struggled, he went to the rookie. The next year when the cup winning rookie struggled, he went back to the other guy. Because wins don't only count when the arbitrarily labeled quote unquote starter gets them. Which is something the dinosaur Sutter seems to forever never get.

It's the Calgary Flames. Not the Calgary Markstroms. Not the Calgary Lucics. And definitely not the Calgary Sutters.

He started Vladar 3 of the last 4 lol

We're in the beginning of December not the middle of April. He started his struggling goalie against a gimme team, one of the first gimme teams the Flames have faced this season. The Flames proceeded to score 1 goal on 45 shots. Blame the goalie and the coach for that if you want but that is not good enough in today's NHL. The forwards need to execute and if they can't they need to be replaced with forwards that can.

 

[super6646]

That's because they were just involved in a game where they gave up 9 goals and scored 8. You do nothing after that and you're asking to be fired.

We gave up 2 and scored 1. We scored 1 f***ing goal! Against the Habs, a team TRYING TO BE BAD!!!!!!! A team that was outscored 10-0 their last two games. Sit Lucic sit whoever but until this team's top 6 forwards start acting like it it won't make a difference.



He started Vladar 3 of the last 4 lol

We're in the beginning of December not the middle of April. He started his struggling goalie against a gimme team, one of the first gimme teams the Flames have faced this season. The Flames proceeded to score 1 goal on 45 shots. Blame the goalie and the coach for that if you want but that is not good enough in today's NHL. The forwards need to execute and if they can't they need to be replaced with forwards that can.

You know what's a good way to get our top 6 going? By changing nothing and being content. 3 PPG prospects in the AHL would sure be hungry to challenge for those top 6 minutes.

This organization is just a pile of excuses from the top down. You say Vladar has started 3 out of 4, well Markstrom has started 17 out of 23 despite his awful play.

 

[Bounces R Way]

You know what's a good way to get our top 6 going? By changing nothing and being content. 3 PPG prospects in the AHL would sure be hungry to challenge for those top 6 minutes.

This organization is just a pile of excuses from the top down. You say Vladar has started 3 out of 4, well Markstrom has started 17 out of 23 despite his awful play.

I mean I've been one of the biggest proponents of calling these guys up since training camp. I'm sure I'm one of the few here that actually watches Wranglers games. The roster is clearly lacking talent and speed that the youth can bring.


Markstrom was a Vezina candidate last year. Every single coach in the NHL gives that guy the lions share of the starts in the beginning of the season, regardless of performance. You really are brand new if you think otherwise.

I don't believe Darryl is infallible. Plenty of head scratching decisions to be critical about. But if you think showing him the door so Treliving can bring in the next Glen Gulutzan or Geoff f***ing Ward is going to magically fix this team, well naivety has truly gotten the best of you.

 

[HighLifeMan]

He started Vladar 3 of the last 4 lol

We're in the beginning of December not the middle of April. He started his struggling goalie against a gimme team, one of the first gimme teams the Flames have faced this season. The Flames proceeded to score 1 goal on 45 shots. Blame the goalie and the coach for that if you want but that is not good enough in today's NHL. The forwards need to execute and if they can't they need to be replaced with forwards that can.

Execution has been an issue with Sutter led teams his entire coaching career. It’s not a coincidence, it’s a pattern and a reflection of his system. Last year was the anomaly due to having three elite players dominating together on a nightly basis. The rest of the team struggled to score, much like it is this year.

Look at Iginla’s numbers prior to and after Sutter. He turned arguably the best offensive forward in the world into a 70 point player and it’s happening again with our top guys this year.

 

[Dertell]

What's going on with Markstrom is that he's an unspectacular goaltender who played well at the beginning of last year, but otherwise has produced mixed results throughout his career.

That's because they were just involved in a game where they gave up 9 goals and scored 8. You do nothing after that and you're asking to be fired.

This is arbitrary nonsense. Nobody benches player because of one bad game. Shouldn't at least. Obviously Petersen has sucked for a full calendar year now and that's why he got waived... even though it's the first year of his extension.

The flames didn't even sign Lucic it was a cap dump for cap dump deal. There's nothing stopping them from benching him other than them believing he's a more valuable player than any potential AHL call up.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Execution has been an issue with Sutter led teams his entire coaching career. It’s not a coincidence, it’s a pattern and a reflection of his system. Last year was the anomaly due to having three elite players dominating together on a nightly basis. The rest of the team struggled to score, much like it is this year.

Look at Iginla’s numbers prior to and after Sutter. He turned arguably the best offensive forward in the world into a 70 point player and it’s happening again with our top guys this year.

Iginla won the Rocket the first year under Darryl. We also went to the Stanley Cup finals for the first time since 89 and only 3rd time ever. Gaudreau, Lindholm, and Tkachuk all set career highs last season in their first full year under Darryl. The rest of the team struggled to score because they're not good at it, much like they are this year.

This is arbitrary nonsense. Nobody benches player because of one bad game.

??
uhh yes they absolutely do. And have been doing so as long as the sport has existed.

 

[Mobiandi]

Put Markstrom back in December. He should have November off

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Guy is struggling mentally, give him some games off and let him get his shit straight, Vladar is playing solid and can get us wins while makrstrom works out whatever is going on

Say what you will about his play, at least he's acknowledging it. Remember what Smith would say in the same situations?

 

[super6646]

I mean I've been one of the biggest proponents of calling these guys up since training camp. I'm sure I'm one of the few here that actually watches Wranglers games. The roster is clearly lacking talent and speed that the youth can bring.


Markstrom was a Vezina candidate last year. Every single coach in the NHL gives that guy the lions share of the starts in the beginning of the season, regardless of performance. You really are brand new if you think otherwise.

I don't believe Darryl is infallible. Plenty of head scratching decisions to be critical about. But if you think showing him the door so Treliving can bring in the next Glen Gulutzan or Geoff f***ing Ward is going to magically fix this team, well naivety has truly gotten the best of you.

Sorry but the bolded are not serious responses. I expect better from you as a poster tbh.

As for the rest of your points, I can say 2 quick things. Past results do not equal future success, and not every coach gives "their guy" the lions share of starts. When Mike Smith went from borderline vezina caliber to swiss cheese caliber, Peters gave Rittich the net for much of 2018-19 for example

And as for your second point, saying that "well things can get worse" is not a ringing endorsement of anyone nor should it absolve criticism for anyone. This product sucks right now, and if we miss the playoffs Sutter deserves to be fired considering the roster we have right now. Kadri and Huberdeau were game changers last year and look nowhere close right now.

 

[Fig]

I just watched the highlights of the game. When was the last time a team scored a goal where the goalie was closer to the blue line than net?

I almost expected Kesler to tumble weed through the next frame...

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Sutter is a great coach but he fails to improve his team on the margins with young players.

It’s strange because he’s able to get so much out of players and he would be a great coach for Pelletier and Phillips.

Edit: I think Backlund Ruzicka will be an awesome 5 on 5 combo. Lindholm and Huberdeau look like they’re ready to pop off

 

[Siignal]

 

[Body Checker]

Ruzicka looked really good. At least it’s something. A young player to look forward to for years.

 

[Koolboss]

Wake me up when this has legit Wingers and a new coach

 

[DCDM]

Well that was a letdown

 

[HighLifeMan]

Iginla won the Rocket the first year under Darryl. We also went to the Stanley Cup finals for the first time since 89 and only 3rd time ever. Gaudreau, Lindholm, and Tkachuk all set career highs last season in their first full year under Darryl. The rest of the team struggled to score because they're not good at it, much like they are this year.

Iginla won the Rocket and Art Ross with 96 points under Gilbert the year prior to Darryl taking over. During His three years under Sutter he recorded 67, 73, and 67 point seasons. Immediately after Darryl left, Iginla returned to 94, and 98 point seasons.

 

[TheButcher90]

After his post-game comments, it's clear that he have to take a big break. Let's roll with Vladar next 3-4 games !

 

[Dertell]

??
uhh yes they absolutely do. And have been doing so as long as the sport has existed.

i meant for a player the team signed to high AAV, and for an extended period of time.

Kadri and Huberdeau were game changers last year and look nowhere close right now.

To be fair, anyone (including tre) who expected Kadri to be worth 7 x 7 was kidding themselves. You can't blame Sutter for Kadri scoring at his career pace.

 

[Tofveve]

Watched the game after nightshift.

- brutal start, bad decision by Markstrom shades of game 2 vs Edmonton in round 2 last year. Got us off to a crappy start and it cost us.

- I thought Ruz played well. Thought it ironic that Hrudey quoted Sutter in saying Adam needs to be more consistent . . . As in consistent to the rest of the no-shows in our forward bunch? The guy is still one of the better forwards overall so IMO time to be done with the 3D chess when it comes to him. Let this guy breathe ffs.

- also thought Toffoli was decent. I'm definitely feeling like I'm eating crow more and more. Granted he was terrible in rnd 2 last year vs the Oil and started off looking out of shape this year. But as I just learned he's only 30 (thought he was 34-36 don't know why) I'm willing to see him stay in a first or second line position. Either he was injured or someone twisted his arm to take his conditioning seriously because he's looked much better over the last 15 games.

- overall I thought the first line looked decent. Glad Lindy got a goal. Hubes slowly starting to show more confidence with the puck even directing the power play. Still need more but JH is showing signs of life along with the rest of the line. We still need a lot more and soon preferably.

- the rest of our offense needs to figure it out quick. Coleman getting stoned on the breakaway was rather fitting. Just not enough from everyone.

- Zad had some nifty offensive shifts. Love a guy with confidence with the puck. I thought him falling to a knee while keeping the defender at bay, guarding the puck while getting back up and getting it back to our blueline D-man was indicative of that.

- glad to see Monahan get honored. Was an emotional night.

- getting a little tired of Hrudey's marble-mouth-fat-tongue near-meaningless commenting. I noticed the symptoms subsided by about the halfway mark of the third period (quite noticeable to me). Fortunately he doesn't say anything offensive, but his ability to speak intelligibly and how he's lasted this long is a headscratcher. Oh well, guess it is what it is. He's pretty much Flames family.

Anyway, sucky loss, better luck next time. Play Vlad and hopefully we figure it out and win.

 

[super6646]

i meant for a player the team signed to high AAV, and for an extended period of time.

To be fair, anyone (including tre) who expected Kadri to be worth 7 x 7 was kidding themselves. You can't blame Sutter for Kadri scoring at his career pace.

Don’t disagree, but my point was that this team isn’t a black hole of talent holding sutter back. Sutter is the one holding himself back right now.

 

[Tofveve]

Some of the worst hockey to watch also. Rim it around and take crap shots from the point.. we don't even have traffic most of the time. Transition is slow as hell and no game breakers.

Agreed

 

[Bounces R Way]

Sorry but the bolded are not serious responses. I expect better from you as a poster tbh.
As for the rest of your points, I can say 2 quick things. Past results do not equal future success, and not every coach gives "their guy" the lions share of starts. When Mike Smith went from borderline vezina caliber to swiss cheese caliber, Peters gave Rittich the net for much of 2018-19 for example.

Don't really post here to meet your expectations tbh.
It's not even an opinion, it's an observable fact.
All of Saros, Demko, Campbell, Shesterkin, Quick, Vasilevskiy, Jones, Gibson, and Bobrovsky have struggled to start the year with SV%s well below their career averages. All of them have started at least 12 games with most over 15. So saying starting a struggling starter is exclusively a Darryl Sutter issue is just empirically false, just a cursory glance at data from this very season proves it quite obviously BS.

And as for your second point, saying that "well things can get worse" is not a ringing endorsement of anyone nor should it absolve criticism for anyone. This product sucks right now, and if we miss the playoffs Sutter deserves to be fired considering the roster we have right now. Kadri and Huberdeau were game changers last year and look nowhere close right now.

Where do I say it absolves him of criticism? Says right there in the post you quoted he's not infallible and has made plenty of decisions worthy of criticism.

We haven't missed the playoffs yet, but go ahead and yearn for Mike Yeo or whoever if you want.

i meant for a player the team signed to high AAV, and for an extended period of time.

Yeah I mean Petersen sucked for a calendar year before that, just that game in particular was a straw that broke the camel's back situation.

 

[super6646]

Don't really post here to meet your expectations tbh.
It's not even an opinion, it's an observable fact.
All of Saros, Demko, Campbell, Shesterkin, Quick, Vasilevskiy, Jones, Gibson, and Bobrovsky have struggled to start the year with SV%s well below their career averages. All of them have started at least 12 games with most over 15. So saying starting a struggling starter is exclusively a Darryl Sutter issue is just empirically false, just a cursory glance at data from this very season proves it quite obviously BS.



Where do I say it absolves him of criticism? Says right there in the post you quoted he's not infallible and has made plenty of decisions worthy of criticism.

We haven't missed the playoffs yet, but go ahead and yearn for Mike Yeo or whoever if you want.



Yeah I mean Petersen sucked for a calendar year before that, just that game in particular was a straw that broke the camel's back situation.

Never said you were absolving him of criticism, just saying that it doesn’t. And frankly, I do not care much for other teams as an excuse for continually playing markstrom. I gave an example of a flames coach demoting a starter, we can do the same again.

Yearn for Mike yeo? Get out of here with the straw mans Bounces. Seems the team doing poorly is making people pissy around flamesnation. I’m pissy too, but frankly a discussion like this does no one any good when it’s just taking jabs at other posters.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Never said you were absolving him of criticism, just saying that it doesn’t. And frankly, I do not care much for other teams as an excuse for continually playing markstrom. I gave an example of a flames coach demoting a starter, we can do the same again.

Yearn for Mike yeo? Get out of here with the straw mans Bounces. Seems the team doing poorly is making people pissy around flamesnation. I’m pissy too, but frankly a discussion like this does no one any good when it’s just taking jabs at other posters.

Well then who? You're the one who keeps advocating for him fired. Fire Sutter, Hire ___________ ___________?