MLSE Worried About TV Ratings for Leafs

[mikeyz]

I honestly believe in the next 20-30 years the leafs will not be a top 5 franchise when it comes to it's fan base, kids aged 10-18 these days just don't really cheer or like the leafs. I know things can change as they get older but I was in Ottawa for NYE and a AAA peewee hockey team from Kitchener was staying on my floor. The whole team was outside my room one day and they asked me who my Favorite nhl team was, and I said the leafs. They all literally booed me and were all saying the leafs suck, etc. If the leafs don't start improving soon this whole generation of kids won't be leaf fans and when they're 30-40, nobody will watch or go to games. Just my two cents

You are absolutely right dude.

 

[pucky]

This is a major reason TV rights and viewership tied to advertising comercial costs why MLSE would not support a full tank and draft rebuild.

If the Leafs were like the Buffalo Sabres (glorified Marlies roster) now those TV numbers would be much lower than they already are and less fans watching.

Bell and Rogers are both Media moguls as that is their primary business.

It's because of excessive greed....

It's funny you say that because an actual full tank and rebuild would almost guarantee a more sustainable future revenue stream.

Yes, but it means loss of ticket sales - no playoffs or let us say for simplicity, a GUARANTEE of no playoffs - if they are tanking, there is that period that they are building and developing their team. They are not likely to make the playoffs. But, they should have some young stars. So, it's that loss of revenue that the media corporations who own the Leafs are worried about. They don't think in terms of 'fan mentality' - a tank makes it easier to build the contender. The media moguls want a quick fix. Just like the previous owners or the 'part-' owners (MLSE).

I'd take Buffalo ownership anyway over Rogers/Bell. Terry and Kim Pegula are the main reasons why there is a new rink in Buffalo and the downtown area is cleaned up and prospering.

Buffalo won't be a laughing stock for very much longer with Tim Murray and Ted Nolan running the show. They are due for another great pick also.

MLSE is a joke. They are a corporation and don't mind producing a losing product as long as it keeps making money.

The problem for the last 47 years has solely been about ownership, from Ballard to the corporations that have owned the leafs and currently own the leafs. The only way to produce a winner in Toronto is with private ownership....but who has that kind of money? If you want MLSE, be prepared to cough up in the neighbourhood of 1.5 to 1.7 billion dollars.

I am glad viewership is down. Its not just about having a crap channel and crap coverage, its more about having a crap team with management that don't have a clue what they are doing.

Nonis (the contract idiot) is totally out of his league right now and giving away picks and crap trades like Gunnarson makes him one of the worst if not the worst in the league and the fact that Shanny hasn't canned him yet, shows Shanny can't see the forest through the trees.

Shanny has nearly a year now, if he doesn't do something by TDL, then he has to go too.

They're trying to determine the best route for the quick fix. It's almost guaranteed.

It's ridiculous to assume that fans wouldn't be patient for a proper rebuild/tank. I haven't read a post of one fan here yet that would reject the Leafs because they decided to tank. It's the mediocrity and refusal to build the team properly that is causing fans to tune out. Many are catching on and they are tired of the same crap. As soon as the stupid decisions the management has made finally comes to life on the ice, they realize that the ownership is taking for granted, their loyalty. At some point, fans note that they are not really interested in building in the proper way and with a salary cap, they can't just throw money at 'past-their-prime' UFAs and most of the trades have been awful.

If Leaf fans saw a real tank and guys like McDavid or Eichel join the team, they would tune in even if they were losing games. If they saw a good work ethic and some glimpses of what is to come, they'd maintain interest. They know this idea is hopeless and are finding other things to do or considering supporting other teams. Looks good on Rogers/Bell/MLSE. It's the only logical response to have.

 

[saffronleaf]

Honestly Rogers / MLSE should move the Leafs over to Comedy Central or something. The Leafs are a joke.

 

[Smif]

If it works but intentional tanking in hopes of losing will see TV viewers fall way off as many will have no interest in following a bottoming out team.

If Fans are not turning in to watch Kessel and Phaneuf then they are even less likely to watch McKegg, Brown, Finn and Granberg filled NHL roster and getting beaten regularly and at the bottom of the NHL standings.

A winning team has improved TV ratings and more viewers while the opposite is true for a loser.

Once theres a winner on the ice they'd all come back. Same thing happened in 1993. That's why the video is called "The Passion RETURNS".

 

[LeafSteel]

My 10 and 5 year old sons were the biggest Leaf fanatics. They don't even watch anymore.

I've written off this season as well. They are unwatchable at this point, and I've endured a lot of lousy years of losing, including the Ballard years.

BB

 

[mcleex]

Nothing would make me more happy than to see MLSE bleed financially. That's what these ****ers get for charging a killing for a **** product

Also I would absolutely LOVE if the Leafs played in an empty building ... would do anything in my power to make that happen

 

[Steven1562]

Hope MLSE suffers ... maybe then they will put a decent product on the ice

 

[saffronleaf]

Nothing would make me more happy than to see MLSE bleed financially. That's what these ****ers get for charging a killing for a **** product

Also I would absolutely LOVE if the Leafs played in an empty building ... would do anything in my power to make that happen

don't worry. basically none of the youth give a **** about this garbage team. in 30 years there will be no fanbase to bring back to the building regardless of how they play. the raptors may even kick them out of the acc because why would you waste 41 nights a year in an arena in downtown toronto?

 

[Morlu]

Nothing would make me more happy than to see MLSE bleed financially. That's what these ****ers get for charging a killing for a **** product

Also I would absolutely LOVE if the Leafs played in an empty building ... would do anything in my power to make that happen

We should start a crowd funding for a fan blackout game. Maybe a die hard millionaire will donate some money to buy up tickets and keep the arena as empty as possible. Donate the extra to a hockey charity. If you get a game against Buffalo or Florida could probably get a LOT of the tickets.

 

[EN4CER]

Well said

it all started with Rogers/Sportsnet screwing up Hockey Night In Canada. Since that first Saturday broadcast last October, I've been totally tuned out of the whole thing, and I haven't seen a full Saturday night broadcast in months. I suspect they've caused a lot of other viewers to tune out as well. Funny how fast we can return to real life and not give a rat's @ss about HNIC anymore now that they butchered it for the worse. There's other things to do, but there always was - thanks to them messing up the whole Saturday night tradition, now I actually REMEMBER that there's other things to do because I sure as sh* haven't been watching much anymore lol. As I've said many times before though, I'm just one guy and one guy means nothing. Others may see it differently and that's fine. But if there are lots of other who feel the same way then maybe something is actually happening now.

The weekday broadcasts are just as garbage - no idea who's calling the game anymore, the intermissions hosts are not likeable - we have Hughson calling a Tuesday game now - and then next Tuesday it's some other guy. Brutal. Rogers did an awesome job of dismantling the entire thing. THAT is one reason for the drop in veiwers. What they did is push out the millions of long-standing loyal viewers they had, and tried to attract a new, younger audience. But this new, younger audience has access to many more (all?) NHL games now at their fingertips, so the Leafs are just another team in the fishbowl instead of being the only option as they used to be. So naturally, the Leafs will take a hit because they are competing for television ratings with all the other teas, whereas they used the be the only team on TV so it's all anyone could watch. Well not anymore. Their owners made this move. For the better and for the worse, they took a gamble on this aspect of it. And if this article about %'s and all that jargon are true, then the proof is there. The Leafs are declining not only on the ice but in popularity as well.

If Rogers doesn't play their cards right, then this generation is the first one that will look beyond the Leafs as their favourite team simply because they have so much access to all other teams now on television/internet. It'll take time, but the Leafs will continue to slide in the standings and also in popularity, which equals lower profits. The only way (in today's world) to prevent that from happening is to start icing better Leaf teams. That way they can compete for TV ratings if they're winning. But right now? I believe the article which says they're dropping. So, so many less fans are giving a crap right now, and it's just getting worse. Just wait and see what happens in the next 10 years or so if they don't get it together - all the young kids of today will decide to cheer on other teams because ours sucks and because they can watxch any other team they want on a Saturday night instead of the losing Leafs- and so that's what they'll do - watch a different game and become fans of other teams - which all means the Leafs will have failed to capture the current generation.

What I'm getting at is that the Leafs could ice garbage teams all through the 80s, 90, 2000s and get away with it - simply because fans had no other options. You couldn't watch any other teams play because they weren't broadcast on our stations. Today? It's the opposite. Most other games can be seen on any given night. WHich means the Leafs all of a sudden have gone from a regional television monopoly right down into the fishbowl of the 29 other teams and now are broadcasted along with all the other games - so much more choice - and if they keep icing crap teams, then our young kids who live in Toronto today will naturally start turning them off and watching other games and liking other teams. They couldn't do that 10, 20 years ago, it HAD to be the Leafs. Not now.

Just a matter of time, wait and see. Maybe these initial ratings are a sign of things to come? I hope so. I'm all for it

Great post hfman, I feel EXACTLY the same way! Rogers ruined hockey. George Strombo... C'mon, what were they thinking?! I feel so disconnected to the game now. Then add to the fact that the leafs aren't likable.

I've been a diehard fan since Tucker days, but this year I haven't watched a full game in a long time. I used to get excited about hockey nights, but now I don't even know when they're playing. I just hate the programming and can't connect emotionally to this team and its core players. We're not alone... I've never seen this much dislike for a leafs team from actual hard core fans. This franchise is in big trouble. I've never been a basketball or Raptors fan unti this year, but man it's great entertainment. Our Raptors play like a team to the last minute win or lose. I'm hooked and I think the leafs failures will be the Raptors gain.

 

[613Leafer]

I honestly believe in the next 20-30 years the leafs will not be a top 5 franchise when it comes to it's fan base, kids aged 10-18 these days just don't really cheer or like the leafs. I know things can change as they get older but I was in Ottawa for NYE and a AAA peewee hockey team from Kitchener was staying on my floor. The whole team was outside my room one day and they asked me who my Favorite nhl team was, and I said the leafs. They all literally booed me and were all saying the leafs suck, etc. If the leafs don't start improving soon this whole generation of kids won't be leaf fans and when they're 30-40, nobody will watch or go to games. Just my two cents

Dont forget to factor in that the new Rogers TV deal gives people across the country access to watch other Canadian teams MUCH more easily. HNIC in English Canada used to be Leafs Leafs Leafs! Another factor is something like NHL centreice to help follow American teams. Plus the threat of a 2nd GTA team, to help pull away local support in southern ontario. Plenty of avenues for the Leafs to lose fans without even considering their decade of suck added on top.

I think the Leafs will continue to sell out, and will likely continue to be a big market big money team. But their national/regional popularity will drop with the next generation, and even their local population (relatively speaking) will drop. The fact that the GTA is like 6M people though, and likely 10M 20-30 years from now, will keep them selling out quite easily. But that doesnt mean theyll have the same % of the market.

 

[paulhiggins]

The only cable TV I used to watch was Leaf hockey on the weekends. I cancelled it altogether. Not because of bad broadcasts which have changed for the worse but because this team is flawed, year after year. Starting at the top. I just don't want to feel like a victim. I'm 55 and have been watching them since I was about 12 but getting sick of this sideshow which under MLSE is no better than the Ballard years. They don't get a dime more of my money.

 

[Ratboy]

A weak fanbase for this team means less money for the NHL. The Leafs are the stepfather of the league, expected to pay the way for the majority of other children on other teams while never reaping any actual benefits from the situation.

**** Gary Bettman, and **** Rogers.

 

[Shwaguy*]

They should push the 31-15 Raptors instead while the Leafs are rebuilding.

We have the young talent/prospects to get their due to strong drafting in the 2010s, but it'll take time to come to fruition.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

They should worry about their sports teams

 

[Pyrophorus]

This isnt necessarily a good thing. Will make them try for "quick fixes" to keep viewership high next season.

The thing is, I bet viewership would be high for a struggling young team with potential compared to a capmaxed crap team.

I'm not often with you, but this time I am.

McDavid, Nylander and Brown, will bring them back.

 

[Banic]

Oh shut up with this ********* already. When have the Leafs ever done a proper rebuild in this franchises history?

Never.

So how the hell can you say with absolute certainty that the majority of Leaf fans don't have the patience for one?

Ratings are low because Leafs fans have been sold a bill of goods by blowhard Burke and his double chinned lackey Nonuts for over 4 + years about how this team is a SC contender, how they believe in this core group of players, how Dion is a great captain, how if he could do it over again he would still make the Kessel trade today, about how they were going to model themselves after the 80's Islanders dynasty chock full of skill and toughness blah blah blah blah etc. And guess what, none of the above ever came to fruition because after awhile talk is cheap, and fans want to see results in all of the crap that they were blabbing on about for all of that time.

Burke had total carte blanche on how to build this team ("If I agree to take the position, it's 2 hands on the steering wheel at all times!" - Burke before he was hired) and instead of exercising a little more patience in the whole process, he had to be so friggin arrogant and slipshod by assembling a group of malcontents, fragile personalities and patch jobs that completely gave fans a mixed message on what direction he said he was going to take with the team.

Now Nonuts is doing damage control in an unwinnable situation. He's the sacrificial lamb of Burke's shoddy retool job.

But I digress...I don't buy that notion for one minute that Leafs fans wouldn't support a full rebuild, in fact, I'm pretty sure if MLSE mustered up the cajoles and give Shanny the greenlight to burn this piece of crap team to the ground and do a proper rebuild, ratings would probably be significantly better than the ones right now.

Maybe read the rest of my opinion and make sure you understand it before you start with the aggression? I NEVER said it was absolutely certain, its an opinion. Do you know what that word means? ONCE AGAIN, your OPINION, is as good as mine. (seeing as, as you stated, and I aforementioned, a proper rebuild has never been done, therefore there is no factual evidence BESIDES the fact that ratings are down during a losing skid).

BTW, have some ****ing respect and call people by their names, when you say words like "Nonuts" and throw out insults you degrade your opinion and diminish yourself to that of a child. Generally when people have to resort to such things, they don't have much of an argument.

 

[Tak7]

I honestly believe in the next 20-30 years the leafs will not be a top 5 franchise when it comes to it's fan base, kids aged 10-18 these days just don't really cheer or like the leafs. I know things can change as they get older but I was in Ottawa for NYE and a AAA peewee hockey team from Kitchener was staying on my floor. The whole team was outside my room one day and they asked me who my Favorite nhl team was, and I said the leafs. They all literally booed me and were all saying the leafs suck, etc. If the leafs don't start improving soon this whole generation of kids won't be leaf fans and when they're 30-40, nobody will watch or go to games. Just my two cents

Great post.

You still see plenty of kids at Leaf games, but one thing to keep an eye on? The Raptors

Younger fans seem interested in basketball so much more than hockey right now, and if the Raps can put together some winning seasons and playoff runs while the leafs continue to struggle, who's to say that an entire generation of sports fans don't adopt the Raps as Toronto's team?

 

[Pyrophorus]

Once theres a winner on the ice they'd all come back. Same thing happened in 1993. That's why the video is called "The Passion RETURNS".

100% true,

 

[Wendel17]

This is a major reason TV rights and viewership tied to advertising comercial costs why MLSE would not support a full tank and draft rebuild.

If the Leafs were like the Buffalo Sabres (glorified Marlies roster) now those TV numbers would be much lower than they already are and less fans watching.

Bell and Rogers are both Media moguls as that is their primary business.

Looking back at the last 10 years you have to wonder where they would be if they just got on with it then and went for a full rebuild? I don't think we would be having this conversation. But instead MLSE insists on trying to put a band aid on a gunshot would year after year. When will they realize that it won't make this team a contender? The longer they put off a rebuild, the longer their profits suffer.

This isnt necessarily a good thing. Will make them try for "quick fixes" to keep viewership high next season.

The thing is, I bet viewership would be high for a struggling young team with potential compared to a capmaxed crap team.

Let's hope they say no to the quick fixes. In terms of viewership, all they need is one first overall pick (McDavid) to get the fans watching and excited. If the fans actually see them building towards something then they will watch. Right now the core of this team is rotten and has zero leadership. They are not going anywhere. Watching them is painful at best.

It's funny you say that because an actual full tank and rebuild would almost guarantee a more sustainable future revenue stream.

Thank you. Well said. MLSE needs to look at the big picture. If they are in this for the long haul (and I assume they are to guarantee their own interests vis a vis content for their channels) then they will do the right thing and take the short term pain and realize the long term gain like our friends in Detroit. 22 straight years of making the playoffs and 4 Stanley Cups.

If it works but intentional tanking in hopes of losing will see TV viewers fall way off as many will have no interest in following a bottoming out team.

If Fans are not turning in to watch Kessel and Phaneuf then they are even less likely to watch McKegg, Brown, Finn and Granberg filled NHL roster and getting beaten regularly and at the bottom of the NHL standings.

A winning team has improved TV ratings and more viewers while the opposite is true for a loser.

For the first year, yes. Give Leaf fans one first overall pick and they will get excited and come back.

But don't you think that the ratings would skyrocket if they drafted an elite talent like the two elites in this draft? IMO it's a year of terrible ratings for many years of high ratings. If MLSE can't realize that, them they're more dysfunctional then I thought...

Absolutely. Well said.

 

[Wendel17]

This is big business and far reaching.

Lets take advertising for example (as only one issue). Canadian Tire wants to run a 2 minute add for $100k during a Leafs hockey game and that add runs 5 times during the event and the sports channel hauls in $500k

Now viewership drops because less and less Leaf fans are watching a bad product so less people see the TV commercials and pretty soon Canadian Tire and other advertisers are pulling their adds and going elsewhere.

You think things like this don't effect MLSE when they decide what level of entertainment product they are selling and how many are tuning in to see it?

Winning team more viewers verses Losing team less viewers and declining ratings catches the eye of those involved.

Even horrible Leaf ratings still garner better ratings than many other shows and sports programming. Let's not get too hysterical. We will not see advertisers pull commercials any time soon (ever). Live sports also offers advertisers guaranteed eyeballs as the PVR factor is not as relevant.

As I said in another post, all it will take is one McDavid to get people watching again.

 

[Erdinger]

For the first year, yes. Give Leaf fans one first overall pick and they will get excited and come back.

This is true. As low as the mid '80's teams had taken the fan interest down when they got Clark in 1985 the buzz his play created got everybody back. It was just too bad that he had to play every role on the team which led to his back problems and shortened career.

 

[Wendel17]

I think Edmonton selling the "re-build with elite prospects" thing for like 7-8 years with multiple top three picks and incompetent management also has something to do with it.

The lesson learned from Edmonton is not to draft so many wingers. Imagine how the Oilers would look if they had Seguin instead of Taylor Hall? And if they drafted Galchenyuk (or even Rielly) instead of Yakupov? Building your team around strong centre's is a must (and d-men). The Leafs are seeing that now with Kessel, Washinton with Ovechkin, and Calgary back in the day with Iginla. Wingers are the most expendable and least important aspect of any team, yet the Oilers loaded up on those players.

 

[Wendel17]

The loss in viewership has as much to do with the type of team they are as it does to their losing. I don't feel any draw towards one single guy on that team. Leaf fans are more apt to feel an association to players like Gilmour, Clarke etc. Hard working blue collar type player's get our loyality thdse prima donnas like Kessel, Gardnier, JVR are not Leaf type players. Simply put the Leafs are not likeable.

Been a Leaf fan for a long time and I can honestly say that if they bring this team back or a slightly different version of the same team, that I won't watch a game next year.

Doesn't help that this is one of the most unlikeable teams in Leafs history.

I detest this team. They have no heart, character, personality, or passion. How I miss the 93 and 2002 teams. If I only knew back then that we would not see another like them I would have appreciated them that much more.

 

[I Believe]

I think i'd be more inclined to watch a rebuilding Leafs team then the current team.

At least i'd know the team i'm watching has some potential. Much prefer that over the perennial losers i'm accustomed to.