The Star: MLSE to raise prices next Year

[Pilky01]

In other words, "I'm too smart to be dumb enough to afford Leaf tickets"

Or "I am too smart to concern myself with a luxury item that my budget doesn't allow me".

If someone is making enough money to buy Leaf tickets at the ACC then good for them, but they aren't going to get my sympathy when MLSE corrects their prices to align with demand/supply.

Regardless, my point still stands. The most fun you can have at a Leaf game is in Ottawa, Buffalo or Detroit. The traveling fan experience is infinitely better than the ACC mausoleum.

 

[Gallagbi]

Or "I am too smart to concern myself with a luxury item that my budget doesn't allow me".

If someone is making enough money to buy Leaf tickets at the ACC then good for them, but they aren't going to get my sympathy when MLSE corrects their prices to align with demand/supply.

Regardless, my point still stands. The most fun you can have at a Leaf game is in Ottawa, Buffalo or Detroit. The traveling fan experience is infinitely better than the ACC mausoleum.

Depends on the game. I'm sure it wasn't too fun in Ottawa when the team was getting blown out 7-1 and I've been at some great games in the Acc.


In my experiences, the best experience you can have is at a Leafs playoff home game.

 

[ACC1224]

Or "I am too smart to concern myself with a luxury item that my budget doesn't allow me".

If someone is making enough money to buy Leaf tickets at the ACC then good for them, but they aren't going to get my sympathy when MLSE corrects their prices to align with demand/supply.

Regardless, my point still stands. The most fun you can have at a Leaf game is in Ottawa, Buffalo or Detroit. The traveling fan experience is infinitely better than the ACC mausoleum.

I doubt anyone is looking for sympathy.

I've seen them on the road but it's cheaper and easier to go to the ACC for me.

How many games have you been to at the "mausoleum"? Any before 2004?

 

[ACC1224]

Depends on the game. I'm sure it wasn't too fun in Ottawa when the team was getting blown out 7-1 and I've been at some great games in the Acc.


In my experiences, the best experience you can have is at a Leafs playoff home game.

This. It's been few and far between since 2004 but it's coming around.

 

[Pilky01]

I doubt anyone is looking for sympathy.

I've seen them on the road but it's cheaper and easier to go to the ACC for me.

How many games have you been to at the "mausoleum"? Any before 2004?

4 or 5. I think I have been to two since the (full season) lockout, both midweek games against SE division teams (Tampa and Atlanta).

And I have seen a playoff game at the ACC, and it was amazing (I believe it was a 1-0 or 2-0 win over Ottawa back in 2000 or 2001). But playoff games aren't really an "average fan experience". Playoff games everywhere are always great.

All I am really saying is that complaining about ticket prices at the ACC is pointless. Its sort of an "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" situation.

Though I do find Liewike's "real fan" pandering to be straight up patronizing. All those suits in the crowd are the reason he gets paid what he does.

 

[paulster2626]

So they have STHs opt-out of 10,000 tickets like they know they will (who wants to be forced to buy pre-season tickets anyway), then they will make them available at face-value on ticketmaster - which is significantly more than what STHs pay.

MLSE appears to be doing the "real fans" (whatever those are) a solid while actually poising themselves to pocket more cash. Cool!

 

[ACC1224]

So they have STHs opt-out of 10,000 tickets like they know they will (who wants to be forced to buy pre-season tickets anyway), then they will make them available at face-value on ticketmaster - which is significantly more than what STHs pay.


MLSE appears to be doing the "real fans" (whatever those are) a solid while actually poising themselves to pocket more cash. Cool!

This is incorrect, they lose money on it.

Pre-season tickets face value are cheaper than what Subscribers pay. Last season they were $25 while I paid $38 for them.

 

[ACC1224]

4 or 5. I think I have been to two since the (full season) lockout, both midweek games against SE division teams (Tampa and Atlanta).

And I have seen a playoff game at the ACC, and it was amazing (I believe it was a 1-0 or 2-0 win over Ottawa back in 2000 or 2001). But playoff games aren't really an "average fan experience". Playoff games everywhere are always great.

All I am really saying is that complaining about ticket prices at the ACC is pointless. Its sort of an "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" situation.

Though I do find Liewike's "real fan" pandering to be straight up patronizing. All those suits in the crowd are the reason he gets paid what he does.

The people this is targetted at IMO, are the majority of fans out there. Not the hardcores who post here or other sites.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

As Ricky would say, it's all about supply and command.

 

[paulster2626]

This is incorrect, they lose money on it.

Pre-season tickets face value are cheaper than what Subscribers pay. Last season they were $25 while I paid $38 for them.

Ooohhhhhh, I stand corrected then.

Last time I went to a preseason game MLSE insisted that this should be worth the same as a regular season game and thus the face value of the tickets were the same in both instances.

In that case, Liewieeiwiwikiwe IS doing a solid!

 

[seanlinden]

This is incorrect, they lose money on it.

Pre-season tickets face value are cheaper than what Subscribers pay. Last season they were $25 while I paid $38 for them.

False.

The money deducted from your invoice will be less than $25 per ticket should you choose to opt out of them. The Leafs aren't going to give you the average value of a season ticket back for in exchange for the least valuable games' tickets.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

It's restricted because they only sell those tickets to season ticket holders.

I'm still waiting to hear a flaw in my arguement. You seem to be suggesting that fair/market value is something different than the intersection of what a seller is willing to sell for, and what a buyer is willing to buy for. In a market, the actual price paid will be what essentially amounts to the highest bid, not some number printed on the ticket.

Any price where a seller takes less than a buyer is willing to pay is inherently unfair. The Leafs just happen to do it to themselves.

Its not really difficult.

Say there are 1,000 tickets available for sale and all of them are sold to STHs for $100. Now say that only one of those tickets are re-sold, how much do you think it could be re-sold for? Say two of those STHs decide to re-sell their tickets, how much could those go for? 3, 4, 1,000?

You seem to think that the black market value = the actual market value when, in fact, the real market value is roughly close to what the price the tickets are sold to STHs for - the market for 1,000 tickets - not the couple that are re-sold. Sure, they may be sold for a black market value but it is neither fair, nor legal, so don't use the word fair and black-market in the same sentence (I noticed you decided to use secondary market instead but point still stands). In the last sentence you also seem to think that MLSE doesn't price their products aggressively enough, or that there is more money to be made from ticket sales. Why don't you apply for an executive position there then.

As for the 2nd bolded, no, if one person is willing to pay x10 more than the masses the highest bid is not the market value. Thats one being taken out back and around to the cleaners

 

[seanlinden]

Its not really difficult.

Say there are 1,000 tickets available for sale and all of them are sold to STHs for $100. Now say that only one of those tickets are re-sold, how much do you think it could be re-sold for? Say two of those STHs decide to re-sell their tickets, how much could those go for? 3, 4, 1,000?

You seem to think that the black market value = the actual market value when, in fact, the real market value is roughly close to what the price the tickets are sold to STHs for - the market for 1,000 tickets - not the couple that are re-sold. Sure, they may be sold for a black market value but it is neither fair, nor legal, so don't use the word fair and black-market in the same sentence (I noticed you decided to use secondary market instead but point still stands). In the last sentence you also seem to think that MLSE doesn't price their products aggressively enough, or that there is more money to be made from ticket sales. Why don't you apply for an executive position there then.

As for the 2nd bolded, no, if one person is willing to pay x10 more than the masses the highest bid is not the market value. Thats one being taken out back and around to the cleaners

You don't seem to be grasping some pretty basic economic concepts.... this is stuff you should learn in introductory high school economics.

The number of tickets re-sold will be dependent on the market price for them. Some season ticket holders will sell their tickets for $100, some would only sell if the price was $150 and otherwise go to the game, some would leave $2000 on the table. On the demand side, there's a certain number of people willing to pay $2000, and a lot higher number of people willing to pay $100. Market (fair) value is the intersection of where those curves meet.

As for the last point, in an open market, it would be grossly unfair for a buyer to not receive the tickets when he or she is willing to pay more than somebody else. If we're talking about about a fixed supply of one (seeing as ticket is unique), the supply curve is vertical (with the exception of the floor price at which point the current owner would keep the ticket) at quantity = 1, so the price paid will be at the very top of the demand curve.

 

[ACC1224]

False.

The money deducted from your invoice will be less than $25 per ticket should you choose to opt out of them. The Leafs aren't going to give you the average value of a season ticket back for in exchange for the least valuable games' tickets.

It's not the average value, it's what each ticket costs. ($40, next year)

 

[seanlinden]

It's not the average value, it's what each ticket costs. ($40, next year)

No it's not. Tickets have different costs depending on the quality of game. The difference is reflected in face value. You can choose to ignore it all you want, but that's just not reality.

Don't believe me? Opt out of your preseason tickets. You're not going to get $40 back.

That $40 number is something you've made up by incorrectly assuming all games are equal. They are not, as indicated on the face of your tickets.

 

[ACC1224]

No it's not. Tickets have different costs depending on the quality of game. The difference is reflected in face value. You can choose to ignore it all you want, but that's just not reality.

Don't believe me? Opt out of your preseason tickets. You're not going to get $40 back.

That $40 number is something you've made up by incorrectly assuming all games are equal. They are not, as indicated on the face of your tickets.

No I can't choose to ignore it, the bill has to be paid.

You certainly make a lot of assumptions for someone who never gets the bill.

 

[seanlinden]

No I can't choose to ignore it, the bill has to be paid.

You certainly make a lot of assumptions for someone who never gets the bill.

There's no assumptions here.

The Leafs charge you prices relative to what's printed on the front. You average it out incorrectly assuming that all games are valued equally for your own accounting purposes (which isn't accurate, but also is likely small enough not to matter).

This year, they've announced that they'll allow you to return / opt out of specific low-value tickets. They're not going to give you the value of an average game back when you're returning the least valuable games of the season.

If the combined face value of your tickets is $6500 and you're paying $5k, and you return tickets with a face value of $50, you're going to get $38.46 back.

The Leafs aren't losing any money in this deal (beyond the logistical / ticketmaster costs). They've just found a win-win situation where season ticket holders have tickets they don't want to buy (at STH discount levels), and the Leafs can probably sell them at face value.

 

[pucky]

The comments to the article said it all. Oh wow, some tix for preseason games might be available... Whippy do. The prices are still going up. I guess MLSE, Rogers et al. thought the fans are stupid enough, they might think that was a good deal. LOL!

 

[ACC1224]

The comments to the article said it all. Oh wow, some tix for preseason games might be available... Whippy do. The prices are still going up. I guess MLSE, Rogers et al. thought the fans are stupid enough, they might think that was a good deal. LOL!

Where are your seats?

 

[seanlinden]

The comments to the article said it all. Oh wow, some tix for preseason games might be available... Whippy do. The prices are still going up. I guess MLSE, Rogers et al. thought the fans are stupid enough, they might think that was a good deal. LOL!

It's actually a great deal.

Season ticket holders no longer have to pay for a couple of games they don't want...fans will get the opportunity to buy tickets from the team at face value. While supply doesn't necessarily increase, it does remove one of the market in efficiencies where scalpers are required to connect season ticket holders to people who want to attend games.

Yeah, there's some risk to the team that they may not actually be able to sell all of these tickets -- but this is a win-win for fans and season ticket holders.

 

[Swarez]

It's actually a great deal.

Season ticket holders no longer have to pay for a couple of games they don't want...fans will get the opportunity to buy tickets from the team at face value. While supply doesn't necessarily increase, it does remove one of the market in efficiencies where scalpers are required to connect season ticket holders to people who want to attend games.

Yeah, there's some risk to the team that they may not actually be able to sell all of these tickets -- but this is a win-win for fans and season ticket holders.

We will be paying the same amount of money, or more it seems. We are 2nd row greens, I assume even with the two preseason games gone total money will be more. But we usually gave away pre seasons because no one buys them.

Team getting better, prices in secondary market have been spiking this year, really easy to good money for games you cant go to, they know this. I think my 80/tickets will be 100 in couple years.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Where are your seats?

Do you live in some parallel universe where it's safe to assume everyone is a season ticket holder?

 

[ACC1224]

Do you live in some parallel universe where it's safe to assume everyone is a season ticket holder?

No why would you assume that?

The post I quoted was concerned about tickets going up for Subscribers so I assume they must be one.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

No why would you assume that?

The post I quoted was concerned about tickets going up for Subscribers so I assume they must be one.

I don't think the fact that someone is making a point about ticket prices going up, even if it only applies to subscribers, necessarily means that you can assume they are a ticket holder. It could very well just be commentary in regards to the situation.

You're right though, I should not have said you assume everyone is a subscriber, just those making comments about the prices going up I suppose.

 

[seanlinden]

We will be paying the same amount of money, or more it seems. We are 2nd row greens, I assume even with the two preseason games gone total money will be more. But we usually gave away pre seasons because no one buys them.

Team getting better, prices in secondary market have been spiking this year, really easy to good money for games you cant go to, they know this. I think my 80/tickets will be 100 in couple years.

You (as a STH) will likely be paying more (even if you opt out of the games), but that should really be an expectation considering that you're underpaying for the tickets to begin with.