The Star: MLSE to raise prices next Year

[seanlinden]

I challenge you to find me some and I'll glad pay you a modest brokerage fee. I want to see the Leafs on March 22nd or 29th. Will pay up to $280 for two tickets, assuming their face value. Market value should equal face value here considering re-selling them for profit is illegal.

So you're suggesting that the Leafs should grossly increase their season ticket prices so that they come closer to equaling face value?

Market value does not equal face value, especially when you're asking for a Saturday night original 6 matchup. I think it was last year that the leafs took steps towards rectifying this issue by increasing the price on highly desirable games like this, and I'm sure they'll continue to take steps towards closing that gap.

 

[ACC1224]

So you're suggesting that the Leafs should grossly increase their season ticket prices so that they come closer to equaling face value?

Market value does not equal face value, especially when you're asking for a Saturday night original 6 matchup. I think it was last year that the leafs took steps towards rectifying this issue by increasing the price on highly desirable games like this, and I'm sure they'll continue to take steps towards closing that gap.

For reference my seats for,

March 22(Sat) vs Mtl = $95 per seat
Dec 17(Tues) vs Fla = $65 per seat

I paid $38 per seat for both games.

 

[seanlinden]

For reference my seats for,

March 22(Sat) vs Mtl = $95 per seat
Dec 17(Tues) vs Fla = $65 per seat

I paid $38 per seat for both games.

How'd you pull that one off?

 

[ACC1224]

How'd you pull that one off?

Divided the Invoice total by 90(45 Games * 2)

 

[Leafs87]

This is a thread every year. They will keep increasing prices, because people will keep buying them…

 

[seanlinden]

Divided the Invoice total by 90(45 Games * 2)

Oh, so as far as I understand, your invoice price is based on different prices for different games. Obviously, it's not really approrpriate to simply divide invoice cost by 45. Plus, when you consider the PSL fee, the invoice price doesn't really reflect anything.

Either way though, as a fan, I don't think that's right. The fair market value of the Tuesday Florida game may only be $65, but that Montreal one is worth a lot more. You should be paying more.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh, so as far as I understand, your invoice price is based on different prices for different games. Obviously, it's not really approrpriate to simply divide invoice cost by 45.

The invoice isn't broken down by game. The different prices for different games is what's printed on the ticket not what Subscribers pay.

I saw you added to your post. Purples have no PSL.

How else do you determine the cost of something? Total cost divided by how many you get.

 

[seanlinden]

The invoice isn't broken down by game. The different prices for different games is what's printed on the ticket not what Subscribers pay.

I saw you added to your post. Purples have no PSL.

How else do you determine the cost of something? Total cost divided by how many you get.

You're implicitly paying more for the premium games. Invoice cost is a standard deduction based on the face value.

Calculating the value of what you're getting isn't so simple. One ticket costs more than another, they just lump them all together. Basically what you have to do is add up the combined face value of the tickets, along with the combined cost (which you know). Then spread the proportion of total face value to each ticket.

 

[ACC1224]

You're implicitly paying more for the premium games. Invoice cost is a standard deduction based on the face value.

Calculating the value of what you're getting isn't so simple. One ticket costs more than another, they just lump them all together. Basically what you have to do is add up the combined face value of the tickets, along with the combined cost (which you know). Then spread the proportion of total face value to each ticket.

Yes it very simple, it works out to $38/game, $3420 for the season.
Whatever MLSE does behind the scenes with their accounting, I don't care.

 

[seanlinden]

Yes it very simple, it works out to $38/game, $3420 for the season.
Whatever MLSE does behind the scenes with their accounting, I don't care.

The problem is -- you're considering all tickets equal.

That is no longer the case. A Montreal saturday night game is substantially more expensive than a Tuesday night Panther game. If you want to blend to the average (and ignore the fact that some tickets are more expensive than others), I'll happily buy all of your Saturday night tickets at twice invoice cost.

 

[ACC1224]

The problem is -- you're considering all tickets equal.

That is no longer the case. A Montreal saturday night game is substantially more expensive than a Tuesday night Panther game. If you want to blend the average, I'll happily buy all of your Saturday night tickets at twice invoice cost.

To me they are all equal, $38 per ticket. When I take someone to a Saturday game it costs me the same as when I take someone to a Tuesday game.

 

[seanlinden]

To me they are all equal, $38 per ticket. When I take someone to a Saturday game it costs me the same as when I take someone to a Tuesday game.

So then you should have no problem selling me all of the saturday night tickets at $80 a ticket, right? I don't think so. It doesn't cost you $38 a ticket. It probably costs you around $50, whereas when you take somebody to a Tuesday Florida game, it probably costs you about $32, as without that Montreal ticket in your package, the average price would be lower.

Or to, better illustrate the point, if I came to you and said, how much for all 45 games for one season (but no relinquishing of the rights beyond), how much would you want?

 

[Joey Hoser]

WTF are you guys even arguing about?

Stop wasting bandwidth.

 

[ACC1224]

So then you should have no problem selling me all of the saturday night tickets at $80 a ticket, right? I don't think so. It doesn't cost you $38 a ticket. It probably costs you around $50, whereas when you take somebody to a Tuesday Florida game, it probably costs you about $32, as without that Montreal ticket in your package, the average price would be lower.

Or to, better illustrate the point, if I came to you and said, how much for all 45 games for one season (but no relinquishing of the rights beyond), how much would you want?

You win, I don't pay $38 per ticket. Do I pay more or less? I need to let my Accountant know what number to use.

 

[ACC1224]

WTF are you guys even arguing about?

Stop wasting bandwidth.

I'm not arguing, what I post is true.

I'm learning new math though, fascinating stuff.

 

[seanlinden]

You win, I don't pay $38 per ticket. Do I pay more or less? I need to let my Accountant know what number to use.

For a premium game you pay more. For a non-premium game you pay less.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

This is a thread every year. They will keep increasing prices, because people will keep buying them…

yep. there's more demand than supply. so price increases will happen.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

So you're suggesting that the Leafs should grossly increase their season ticket prices so that they come closer to equaling face value?

Market value does not equal face value, especially when you're asking for a Saturday night original 6 matchup. I think it was last year that the leafs took steps towards rectifying this issue by increasing the price on highly desirable games like this, and I'm sure they'll continue to take steps towards closing that gap.

Face value is the price the Leafs organization sells the tickets for.

Market value, in this case, is the face value because selling tickets on the black market, above face value, is technically illegal.

Now lets go back, you seem to think that there are plenty of tickets available on the secondary/black market at fair value. I challenge you to find me a ticket that is being sold for the same price as the one the Leafs organization printed on their ticket. You won't find it, therefore there are no tickets available for fair market value. The only ones available are the ones being sold at the black market (illegal) value.

 

[seanlinden]

Face value is the price the Leafs organization sells the tickets for.

Market value, in this case, is the face value because selling tickets on the black market, above face value, is technically illegal.

Now lets go back, you seem to think that there are plenty of tickets available on the secondary/black market at fair value. I challenge you to find me a ticket that is being sold for the same price as the one the Leafs organization printed on their ticket. You won't find it, therefore there are no tickets available for fair market value. The only ones available are the ones being sold at the black market (illegal) value.

Face value is the price that the Leafs organization sells the tickets for in a restricted market.

Market value, also known as fair value, is the intersection of what buyers are willing to spend and sellers are willing to sell for. In this case, you've got some fairly unenforcable laws that attempt to allow buyers to purchase for below fair / market value, and most fans understand that those laws are fairly meaningless. Just because a law says something is a certain value, doesn't mean that it's fair/market value is that.

I think it's important to realize that the only reason scalpers are so expensive is because there are people willing to pay those prices. If you're not willing to pay more than anyone else for that ticket, then you don't deserve to get the ticket, regardless of whether there's some meaningless law in place to say that you shouldn't. Why do you believe that you're entitled to buy a ticket for face value when there's others who are willing to buy it for more?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Face value is the price that the Leafs organization sells the tickets for in a restricted market.

Market value, also known as fair value, is the intersection of what buyers are willing to spend and sellers are willing to sell for. In this case, you've got some fairly unenforcable laws that attempt to allow buyers to purchase for below fair / market value, and most fans understand that those laws are fairly meaningless. Just because a law says something is a certain value, doesn't mean that it's fair/market value is that.

I think it's important to realize that the only reason scalpers are so expensive is because there are people willing to pay those prices. If you're not willing to pay more than anyone else for that ticket, then you don't deserve to get the ticket, regardless of whether there's some meaningless law in place to say that you shouldn't. Why do you believe that you're entitled to buy a ticket for face value when there's others who are willing to buy it for more?

How is the sale of Maple Leafs tickets restricted? If by restricted you mean limited in quantity then you would be correct, the market value of a limited amount of tickets available on the black market is not indicative of the market value of the 15,000+ tickets that MLSE sells to STHs - the price on the ticket. And I don't think I'm entitled to anything more than pointing out the flaws in your argument.

 

[seanlinden]

How is the sale of Maple Leafs tickets restricted? If by restricted you mean limited in quantity then you would be correct, the market value of a limited amount of tickets available on the black market is not indicative of the market value of the 15,000+ tickets that MLSE sells to STHs - the price on the ticket. And I don't think I'm entitled to anything more than pointing out the flaws in your argument.

It's restricted because they only sell those tickets to season ticket holders.

I'm still waiting to hear a flaw in my arguement. You seem to be suggesting that fair/market value is something different than the intersection of what a seller is willing to sell for, and what a buyer is willing to buy for. In a market, the actual price paid will be what essentially amounts to the highest bid, not some number printed on the ticket.

Any price where a seller takes less than a buyer is willing to pay is inherently unfair. The Leafs just happen to do it to themselves.

 

[dubey]

Preseason games? What a total slap in the face, these idiots seriously think this means **** all? I think i actually kind of take offense to this.

You wouldn't be buying tickets if they freed up 10k from regular season games anyway

 

[nsleaf]

real fans would go, if thats all they could get.

Kind of like "beggars can't be choosers"?

 

[Pilky01]

Going to a Leafs game at the ACC isn't even a consideration for me so I could hardly care less how much they gouge the idiots with more money than sense.

If you want to really enjoy a Leafs game get in your car and head to Ottawa/Buffalo/Detroit. That is where the so called "real fans" are.

Best Leaf game of my life was last April in Ottawa.

 

[ACC1224]

Going to a Leafs game at the ACC isn't even a consideration for me so I could hardly care less how much they gouge the idiots with more money than sense.

If you want to really enjoy a Leafs game get in your car and head to Ottawa/Buffalo/Detroit. That is where the so called "real fans" are.

Best Leaf game of my life was last April in Ottawa.

In other words, "I'm too smart to be dumb enough to afford Leaf tickets"