OT: MLB Thread XLVII

[JimmyG89]

This is something that has to be going through the minds of a lot of free agents. Cohen is changing the perception of the team. You see it in the current players as well. The current guys might have "liked" the Wilpons, but this is a culture change that is going on. He'll need to live up to it, but public perception is a big asset to have in the open market.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Let’s see the price range but I like it.

 

[nyr2k2]

Let’s see the price range but I like it.

I actually preferred McCann to locking ourselves into a huge money deal with Realmuto. I know everyone says Realmuto is in awesome shape and all that, but the fact is he's a catcher who will be 30 when the season starts.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I actually preferred McCann to locking ourselves into a huge money deal with Realmuto. I know everyone says Realmuto is in awesome shape and all that, but the fact is he's a catcher who will be 30 when the season starts.

agree. If we only had one of Alonso and Smith, I would be more open to Realmuto. But assuming the DH remains, Smith at 1B and Pete as DH moving forward should be locked in.

Can’t wager that on Realmuto staying as a catcher in the next 5 years for 140 games a year.

 

[Leetch3]

I actually preferred McCann to locking ourselves into a huge money deal with Realmuto. I know everyone says Realmuto is in awesome shape and all that, but the fact is he's a catcher who will be 30 when the season starts.

rumor was JT doesn't want to play for the mets anyway...but realmuto is younger than mccann so both come with that same age risk.

i have to wonder if this is a bluff to get realmuto to come around...but this feels like a same old mets signing a 2nd tier free agent with little track record to save a few bucks.

 

[NYR94]

I actually preferred McCann to locking ourselves into a huge money deal with Realmuto. I know everyone says Realmuto is in awesome shape and all that, but the fact is he's a catcher who will be 30 when the season starts.

Yeah, that's why I'm not that high no Realmuto either. The age and position just scares me. McCann seems like a less risky move.

I am so not used to the tempo of MLB free agency. In hockey and basketball there's no question to when the start of free agency is because they hit the ground running on day 1 with big signings but with MLB it's different.

 

[nyr2k2]

rumor was JT doesn't want to play for the mets anyway...but realmuto is younger than mccann so both come with that same age risk.

i have to wonder if this is a bluff to get realmuto to come around...but this feels like a same old mets signing a 2nd tier free agent with little track record to save a few bucks.

McCann has the age factor as well, but I think the appealing thing with him is that he probably will take two years, or two with an option. Particularly in a depressed market. So if he sucks there's less risk than if Realmuto falls apart in 2 years.

Realmuto would definitely be a nice add, but I'd like to spend the bulk of the money on CF and pitching.

 

[Bob Richards]

Fine with the player but would not be crazy about 4 years.

 

[Leetch3]

McCann has the age factor as well, but I think the appealing thing with him is that he probably will take two years, or two with an option. Particularly in a depressed market. So if he sucks there's less risk than if Realmuto falls apart in 2 years.

Realmuto would definitely be a nice add, but I'd like to spend the bulk of the money on CF and pitching.

the contract will be alot smaller but it still feels like they are going after the significantly weaker player cause its cheaper. it wasn't supposed to be like that under uncle steve. of course no one will complain if you get mccann and then sign springer and bauer cause you saved $$ at catcher but no guarantee we can land them

 

[SA16]

McCann is not very good and I would not be happy with him as he starting catcher. And I am aware he is coming off a very strong 31 game season.

 

[East Coast Bias]

There’s like 3 good catchers in all of baseball. It’s an awful position.

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean we just signed a guy that's never thrown a pitch in the majors to a major league contract which not many other teams were apparently willing to do. This is still the same franchise that would routinely accept lesser prospects if the other team would eat $100K. We just dropped $15m on a reliever and didn't non-tender anyone to save cash. Can we give it a few more weeks before we decry the team for being cheap, especially when there are legitimate reasons as to why a team might want to sign McCann instead of Realmuto other than just trying to save some money?

 

[SA16]

I mean we just signed a guy that's never thrown a pitch in the majors to a major league contract which not many other teams were apparently willing to do. This is still the same franchise that would routinely accept lesser prospects if the other team would eat $100K. We just dropped $15m on a reliever and didn't non-tender anyone to save cash. Can we give it a few more weeks before we decry the team for being cheap, especially when there are legitimate reasons as to why a team might want to sign McCann instead of Realmuto other than just trying to save some money?

What reasons are those? He's worse at everything and older. The only reasons would be less money or less years which should not be viable reasons anymore. Even so, if the team wanted to allocate the money elsewhere and go cheaper at C McCann would not be the guy I would target (It would be Flowers)

 

[nyr2k2]

What reasons are those? He's worse at everything and older. The only reasons would be less money or less years which should not be viable reasons anymore. Even so, if the team wanted to allocate the money elsewhere and go cheaper at C McCann would not be the guy I would target (It would be Flowers)

There are reasons other than being cheap. Thinking that Realmuto will be a poor investment in a few years isn't being cheap, it's being prescient. The best guy on the market often ends up with one of the worst contracts.

McCann has trended up the last two seasons. Better both offensively and defensively. Cohen has a lot of money to spend but not an unlimited budget and signing a good player like McCann to fill a need while retaining flexibility to go after the two big-ticket items at the top of your list is smart. Again, it's not cheap.

If I could have McCann plus Springer and Bauer vs Realmuto and Bauer OR Realmuto and Springer I'd go with the McCann/Springer/Bauer option every day of the week.

Flowers is fine but had been trending down for a few years, is 35, and can basically only catch 80 games at this point. If you sign him you also need to sign someone else, because Nido and Sanchez aren't legitimate options.

 

[SA16]

Realmuto is a better player than Springer (or it's extremely close either way) though and he's 1.5 years younger. So there's no real reason to think that Realmuto won't last but Springer will. There was also just an article the other day about how the catcher breaking down thing is largely a myth and dependent more on player type than position. Not to mention, regarding position, Springer is 31 years old and I believe there was one or zero CF this year at age 33+ so he's just as likely, if not more, to break down and/or have to change positions.

Rather than having McCann at C and Springer at CF I'd rather have Realmuto at C and Bradley or Pillar in CF. That's still one expensive top guy and one cheaper guy at the other position (not that they will be super cheap but not the same level as the others).

Take these numbers for what it's worth but here are projected median crowdsourced contracts for the listed players (2021 Top 50 Free Agents)

Realmuto 5 x 22
Bradley 2 x 10
Pillar (not listed)

Springer 5 x 22
McCann 2 x 6

Bauer 3 x 29
A negligible difference between Expensive C/Cheap CF and Cheap C/Expensive CF

 

[nyr2k2]

Realmuto is a better player than Springer (or it's extremely close either way) though and he's 1.5 years younger. So there's no real reason to think that Realmuto won't last but Springer will. There was also just an article the other day about how the catcher breaking down thing is largely a myth and dependent more on player type than position. Not to mention, regarding position, Springer is 31 years old and I believe there was one or zero CF this year at age 33+ so he's just as likely, if not more, to break down and/or have to change positions.

Rather than having McCann at C and Springer at CF I'd rather have Realmuto at C and Bradley or Pillar in CF. That's still one expensive top guy and one cheaper guy at the other position (not that they will be super cheap but not the same level as the others).

Take these numbers for what it's worth but here are projected median crowdsourced contracts for the listed players (2021 Top 50 Free Agents)

Realmuto 5 x 22
Bradley 2 x 10
Pillar (not listed)

Springer 5 x 22
McCann 2 x 6

Bauer 3 x 29
A negligible difference between Expensive C/Cheap CF and Cheap C/Expensive CF

I posted an article a while back that examined some different approaches the Mets could take. This is the one I favored:

• Sign Trevor Bauer (4 years, $120 million, $30 million AAV)
• Sign Liam Hendriks (3 years, $42 million, $14 million AAV)
• Sign James McCann (2 years, $21 million, $10.5 million AAV)
• Sign Jackie Bradley Jr. (1 year, $11 million)
• Sign Kolten Wong (1 year, $10 million)

The article called this the "pitching and defense" approach and would add like $75M in payroll up front. We can quibble with some of these numbers or whatever, but the point is there are multiple approaches to take to make the Mets a substantially better team. They don't have to include Realmuto. Or Bauer. Or whoever. Ideally you'd have at least one of them.

My point is simply that Cohen has said he plans to spend a ton of money, he has a ton of money, and I haven't seen anything thus far to indicate a hesitancy to spend it. So when we see that the team is interested in McCann and not Realmuto, it's a bit silly to immediately jump to "we're settling for second-tier guys" and "still just trying to save a buck" and all that. Since, again, more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Maximus]

I actually preferred McCann to locking ourselves into a huge money deal with Realmuto. I know everyone says Realmuto is in awesome shape and all that, but the fact is he's a catcher who will be 30 when the season starts.

Well if we get McCann which is more than fine with me, we need to than set our sites on Springer.

Either/Or was going to be fine with me but Springer plugs that hole in CF and McCann shores up the catcher spot.

Give me Bauer than and call it an offseason as Mets would be ready and set to contend for a title. I know you aren't as big on Bauer as I am but if we get him, it would be huge for the pitching staff.

 

[Maximus]

rumor was JT doesn't want to play for the mets anyway...but realmuto is younger than mccann so both come with that same age risk.

i have to wonder if this is a bluff to get realmuto to come around...but this feels like a same old mets signing a 2nd tier free agent with little track record to save a few bucks.

Not if it means we would be getting Springer and Bauer it wouldn't be same ole Mets...just sayin!

 

[SA16]

I don’t have a problem going for a second tier catcher. I just specifically don’t like McCann. Not that it would be a huge commitment or anything. He’s good at stopping the run game but he’s never been a very good pitch framer and I see a ton of red flags in his offensive game starting with his insane strikeout rate. His batting average the last two years are a fluke driven by a babip spike with no significant changes to his batter ball profile he’s probably more of a .230-.240 hitter with a little bit of power, minimal walks, and a ton of strikeouts.

 

[JimmyG89]

McCann on a 4 year deal might be a little too much for my liking, but it's better than Realmuto on a 7 year deal, which is what he is looking for. We need to upgrade at catcher. McCann does that for this team.

He's also looks like a guy that can play around 110 games a season, so they'll need to find a solid backup as well, but it would be a good start to have him in the fold as the starter behind the plate.

Also, the starters market looks pretty good this year. Bauer is the obvious one to get, but there are some other options that could fill in the #4 and #5 spots if they cannot get him and while they wait for Syndergaard to come back. Bauer just makes the rotation elite level again:

deGrom, Bauer, Stroman, Peterson, #5. You get Thor back halfway through and you have Peterson as the #5 or another free agent signing. You're talking about a rotation that would push for the #1 spot in the MLB with Cleveland being the competition on that.

 

[Leetch3]

mccann would be a big upgrade over what we have (which is nothing since we have literally no catchers) so not trying to be negative. But my concern/red flag is that 6 years in the majors he has had 1 really good year. and at the end of that season his team went out and signed Grandal and demoted him to backup and then let him walk.

obviously a huge part of that is that grandal has a better track record and they knew mccann was a year away from free agency but if he's that good they could have kept him for cheaper. and we are banking on the 1 year sample size being the norm going forward not the rest of his career.

 

[SA16]

mccann would be a big upgrade over what we have (which is nothing since we have literally no catchers) so not trying to be negative. But my concern/red flag is that 6 years in the majors he has had 1 really good year. and at the end of that season his team went out and signed Grandal and demoted him to backup and then let him walk.

obviously a huge part of that is that grandal has a better track record and they knew mccann was a year away from free agency but if he's that good they could have kept him for cheaper. and we are banking on the 1 year sample size being the norm going forward not the rest of his career.

He's a downgrade on Ramos. He's better than Nido and such of course.

 

[nyr2k2]

He's a downgrade on Ramos. He's better than Nido and such of course.

I get that you're not a fan of McCann, but Ramos appears to be trending down, and McCann is coming off his two best seasons. Ramos looked like a corpse out there last year.

I understand your position re: McCann vs Realmuto, which is fair, but to say McCann is a downgrade from Ramos seems to assume that McCann will revert to his pre-2019 form and Ramos will reverse course at 33 and become good again.

ZiPS has them both at 1.2 fWAR for next year with McCann being far better defensively and Ramos better with the bat. The defensive measures I believe because Ramos is terrible, but I'm not sure I buy Ramos rebounding to a .750 OPS.

 

[SA16]

I get that you're not a fan of McCann, but Ramos appears to be trending down, and McCann is coming off his two best seasons. Ramos looked like a corpse out there last year.

I understand your position re: McCann vs Realmuto, which is fair, but to say McCann is a downgrade from Ramos seems to assume that McCann will revert to his pre-2019 form and Ramos will reverse course at 33 and become good again.

ZiPS has them both at 1.2 fWAR for next year with McCann being far better defensively and Ramos better with the bat. The defensive measures I believe because Ramos is terrible, but I'm not sure I buy Ramos rebounding to a .750 OPS.

ZiPS offensive projection on McCann is really bad. They have him 62nd among catchers in wOBA (Some guys ahead are prospects/not full time starters of course). They have Ramos at 16th. I fully expect McCann to revert. His strikeout rates have gotten even worse the last two years. McCann had a huge BABIP spike so now he's seen as good. Ramos had a huge BABIP drop so now he's seen as bad. We've seen this story time and time again. Ramos also struck out more last year but still below average as opposed to McCann who is near long worst. McCann isn't great defensively either. He does have a good arm and is good at controlling the running game. I think Ramos putting up a .750 OPS is far more likely than McCann doing so.

 

[Leetch3]

I get that you're not a fan of McCann, but Ramos appears to be trending down, and McCann is coming off his two best seasons. Ramos looked like a corpse out there last year.

I understand your position re: McCann vs Realmuto, which is fair, but to say McCann is a downgrade from Ramos seems to assume that McCann will revert to his pre-2019 form and Ramos will reverse course at 33 and become good again.

ZiPS has them both at 1.2 fWAR for next year with McCann being far better defensively and Ramos better with the bat. The defensive measures I believe because Ramos is terrible, but I'm not sure I buy Ramos rebounding to a .750 OPS.

Was this a reply to me? Cause I literally said McCann would be a big upgrade over what they have. But Ramos is gone. He isn’t even in the picture.

And I never said I don’t like McCann. But anytime you are giving a big multi year deal to a guy who had 1 good season it’s a risk. Maybe he’s ready to break out but often that 1 year was an outlier