OT: MLB Thread - Part XIX: Yankees Hire Boone. Joe Buck Still Unenthused

[2Leetch_94]

You lose your 2nd and 5th highest picks, plus the money slotted to those picks, while losing one million in the INTL pool to sign Moustakas. Not worth it. Neil Walker is a solid switch-hitting bat that is a good clubhouse presence that won't prevent Torres from taking over when the time arrives. Playing at YS won't hurt Walker's offense one bit either. Gets on base at a respectable clip, doesn't strikeout much, and can be used at 3 infield positions. Biggest knock is his durability, good thing the Yankees have a few options to help out when that occurs. Depth is a great thing to have.

Yankees Rescue Neil Walker from Value Bin | FanGraphs Baseball

Walker has produced seven straight seasons of at least two wins. He ranks 61st amongst position players in WAR (11.7) since the start of the 2014 season. He was ranked by former FanGraphs manager editor Dave Cameron as 11th-best free agent available this winter.

Neil Walker is most definitely an above average hitter when healthy and signed to a bargain price.

 

[RGY]

I want to know how Neil Walker has been the last two seasons. I dont care about 7 straight seens with a WAR of 2. That doesnt make him above average either.

And I am not saying the Yankees should have absolutely signed Moose, but they would have survived the compensation. They could have traded to obtain international pool money back.

 

[2Leetch_94]

Neil Walker » Statistics » Batting | FanGraphs Baseball

2016: 23 HR's. .282/.347/.476 122 wRC+ 3.7 WAR
2017: 14 HR's. .265/.362/.439 114 wRC+ 2.1 WAR. All 14 homeruns as a left-handed hitter.

His two biggest flaws is he's much better hitter left-handed, which will only be enhanced moving to Yankee Stadium, and he's dealt with injuries only playing 113 and 111 games respectively.

 

[Cassano]

I want to know how Neil Walker has been the last two seasons. I dont care about 7 straight seens with a WAR of 2. That doesnt make him above average either.

So you're basically ignoring factual evidence when its right there in front of you....

 

[RGY]

So you're basically ignoring factual evidence when its right there in front of you....

In what way am I ignoring it? Oh wait I should treat WAR as the end all be all metric? I guess I did not get that memo.

 

[Cassano]

In what way am I ignoring it? Oh wait I should treat WAR as the end all be all metric? I guess I did not get that memo.

I mean, you can look at the post right above mine.

When he's healthy, he's definitely an above average player.

 

[RGY]

I mean, you can look at the post right above mine.

When he's healthy, he's definitely an above average player.

When he is healthy. 32 years old. His numbers are middle of the pact for second basemen. He is average.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

His 2016 numbers are well above average for his position, so were his numbers last year TBH.

If hes healthy, he will help. His versatility gives the Yankees a ton of flexibility since he can get spot starts at 1st as well as 3rd. WAR is probably the best metric out there even if its imperfect.

 

[Cassano]

His numbers are middle of the pact for second basemen.

Those numbers are better than the average 2B though.

 

[2Leetch_94]

Mike Moustakas hasn't exactly had a storied career to this point.
2015: 22 HR's .284/.348/.470 123 wRC+ 3.7 WAR
2016: Only played 27 games
2017: 38 HR's .272/.314/.521 114 wRC+ 2.2 WAR

Outside of 2017, Moutakas's highest HR total was in 2015 with 22. Doesn't walk at all, only plays one position, and had FA compensation attached to sign him to be a 1-year stopgap.

Walker's 2014 for comparison: 23 HR's .271/.342/.467 130 wRC+ 3.6 WAR

After all the prospects the Yankees have traded away and will trade for a starter at the TDL, plus the ones close to graduating, a farm system can quickly go from elite to average or worse in a flash. See the Chicago Cubs and Boston Red Sox. Throwing away picks and pool money for someone who's best asset is supposed to be his power while only hitting over 22 homeruns once in his career for a one year stopgap doesn't seem like the best use of resources....Walker is being way undersold or Moustakas way oversold if Moustakas is a clear cut upgrade and Walker is just average. Homeruns is about the last thing the Yankees need as well. I think they'll be fine in that regard.

Even if your stance is, don't sign either Moustakas or Walker....what real harm can signing Walker to a 1 yr/4M contract do? If Torres and Andujar are raking at Scranton, Neil Walker isn't going to block them. It gives Torres time to knock off the rust. Walker can sit against lefties, Drury can move over to 2nd. It improves the bench, while providing a little insurance behind Bird at 1st if Lind leaves after spring training.

Disclaimer: Not saying two picks and some pool money is going to ruin the farm system, just that it's real poor use of resources.

 

[Cassano]

After all the prospects the Yankees have traded away and will trade for a starter at the TDL, plus the ones close to graduating, a farm system can quickly go from elite to average or worse in a flash. See the Chicago Cubs and Boston Red Sox. Throwing away picks and pool money for someone who's best asset is supposed to be his power while only hitting over 22 homeruns once in his career for a one year stopgap doesn't seem like the best use of resources.....

Very good point. The farm will probably be emptied in the next season or two as we look to add the final pieces. I think the team will trade for a top end starter like Bumgarner or DeGrom(lol like the Mets will ever trade him to NYY) this deadline.

And your Moustakas points were spot on. I don't think he's worth it for the non-monetary assets the team would be forfeiting for him.

 

[RGY]

We have been over the Moustakas analysis before to dispute him “not doing much up until this point in his career”

He has been trending upward the last three seasons. He is going to be 28 this season. 29 in September. He had 22 in 2015. 7 HR in 27 GP in the year he was hurt in 2016. He was on pace to set new career highs that season. He is going to outproduce Walker this year by far.

 

[2Leetch_94]

Very good point. The farm will probably be emptied in the next season or two as we look to add the final pieces. I think the team will trade for a top end starter like Bumgarner or DeGrom(lol like the Mets will ever trade him to NYY) this deadline.

And your Moustakas points were spot on. I don't think he's worth it for the non-monetary assets the team would be forfeiting for him.

I wouldn't say it will be emptied because quite frankly the Yankees farm depth is ridiculous. It's like a never ending supply of power arms and high upside guys down there but that also carries a higher bust rate. We've been spoiled by Sanchez, Judge, and Severino lately but it's really not that easy to bring prospects up and have them just become elite players as fast as those 3 have. Andujar and Torres will have plenty of time to show their readiness. It's good to not have to solely depend on them to provide all the support at 2nd and 3rd in the first half of the season. If one or both got off to slow starts and were playing like Severino/Judge in 2016, fans would be in an uproar that Cashman didn't do anything to try and cushion them.

To get back to the main point, the cost of a quality starter even if it's *only* a Michael Fulmer or Chris Archer, it's not going to be cheap. Add to guys like Adams, Sheffield, Torres, and Andujar being MLB ready or close to it by the end of 2018....it never hurts to continue stockpiling the talent throughout the system. If the right player, say a Manny Machado next year, I'm all for forfeiting the picks and pool money but do that year after year it will add up.

 

[2Leetch_94]

We have been over the Moustakas analysis before to dispute him “not doing much up until this point in his career”

He has been trending upward the last three seasons. He is going to be 28 this season. 29 in September. He had 22 in 2015. 7 HR in 27 GP in the year he was hurt in 2016. He was on pace to set new career highs that season. He is going to outproduce Walker this year by far.

His power is trending up, but his OBP isn't. .835 OPS while hitting 38 bombs isn't something that's going to fill me with joy. His 2015 was more impressive in every way besides power. If Moustakas was purely about the money, I'd be much more inclined to agree with taking a flier on him for a year and see if he can belt 40+ homeruns at YS but power really isn't something the Yankees are in dire need of, even left handed power. Between Gardner, Bird, Didi, and now Walker, it's more than acceptable. Reaching base and being versatile in the field are equally important to how this team is structured right now.

With all that said, I gave my two cents on the subject and it's perfectly fine for us to disagree. Maybe Walker's age and injuries derail his season and Moustakas has a fantastic year. It's certainly possible and it would be unfortunate. It's just not something I'm going to kill Cashman for because I agree with the reasoning behind it. I believe both Andujar and Torres will still become significant factors to the team's success well before October which ultimately is more crucial than a Moustakas vs Walker debate in the grand scheme of things. Both are keeping spots warm to complement two great prospects with a potential Machado addition on the horizon next winter.

 

[darko]

I want to know how Neil Walker has been the last two seasons. I dont care about 7 straight seens with a WAR of 2. That doesnt make him above average either.

And I am not saying the Yankees should have absolutely signed Moose, but they would have survived the compensation. They could have traded to obtain international pool money back.

122 wRC+ in 2016 and 114 in 2017. Definition of above average.

 

[RGY]

122 wRC+ in 2016 and 114 in 2017. Definition of above average.

We shall see.

I prefer Drury and Andujar.

 

[bernmeister]

There is crazy depth this Yankee team.

Cubs Kris Bryant renewed 1 yr only, I think, cheap, then is full blown $ next year, I think.

So.
Bettances + Drury + Ellsbury - we eat 100% of his salary, balance of this year, but he counts on Cubs payroll vs luxury tax
for
Bryant

IF Bryant re-signs w/Yankees, then Cubs also get one blue chip prospect, prob Sheffield or similar

I like Amdujar lots, and see him getting lots of play as part time 3B, 1B, OF and DH. Start Walker in AAA
OF is overstocked. Gardner's last yr. Phase out/trade.
Stanton Hicks Judge
Andujar Frazier Austin

Bryant Gregorius Gleyber T at 2B Bird
Andjuar Wade and Torreyes
and Austin emergency 3B/1B

once Gards is gone, that's like 12 guys to cover 8 positions + DH, which some AB may go to Sanchez.

Cubs may be looking at a lot of sacrifice to keep Bryant beyond this year, they can use Bettances in the bp, Ells as a freebie has value, Drury competes for the position. And that is down payment. They get a significant blue chip, potentially on top of that, and there is outside chance Bryant does a reverse Chapman, and w/other moves made due to this deal, has space to return to Windy City!!

 

[romba]

Very good point. The farm will probably be emptied in the next season or two as we look to add the final pieces. I think the team will trade for a top end starter like Bumgarner or DeGrom(lol like the Mets will ever trade him to NYY) this deadline.

And your Moustakas points were spot on. I don't think he's worth it for the non-monetary assets the team would be forfeiting for him.

Yanks will make the moves if the price is right but I cannot see the CashMan abandoning the current philosophy. The Yankees don’t want to win for 5 years and then ‘rebuild’ again and have a .500 or god forbid losing season, they want to dominate baseball for a loooooo time while being EXTREMELY profitable. That means having a large number of players on their rookie contracts, which requires excellent drafting and development. When Judge, Sanchez etc. are up for a pay increase the Yanks will need to fill other positions with low cost options to stay under the luxury tax threshold. I definitely expect a blockbuster or perhaps even 2 especially to deal from a position of depth (OF), but I don’t think ‘emptying the cupboard’ will ever happen again.

 

[Cassano]

Yanks will make the moves if the price is right but I cannot see the CashMan abandoning the current philosophy. The Yankees don’t want to win for 5 years and then ‘rebuild’ again and have a .500 or god forbid losing season, they want to dominate baseball for a loooooo time while being EXTREMELY profitable. That means having a large number of players on their rookie contracts, which requires excellent drafting and development. When Judge, Sanchez etc. are up for a pay increase the Yanks will need to fill other positions with low cost options to stay under the luxury tax threshold. I definitely expect a blockbuster or perhaps even 2 especially to deal from a position of depth (OF), but I don’t think ‘emptying the cupboard’ will ever happen again.

Yeah, I didn't word it correctly n context. Emptying the cupboard with the implication that a lot of younger players will graduate and become regulars for the team. Plenty more will be moved for win-now moves.

 

[Cassano]

Also Adam Lind was released. So much for that good bat off the bench haha.

 

[Machinehead]

So, Bern does baseball trades now...

 

[darko]

There is crazy depth this Yankee team.

Cubs Kris Bryant renewed 1 yr only, I think, cheap, then is full blown $ next year, I think.

So.
Bettances + Drury + Ellsbury - we eat 100% of his salary, balance of this year, but he counts on Cubs payroll vs luxury tax
for
Bryant

IF Bryant re-signs w/Yankees, then Cubs also get one blue chip prospect, prob Sheffield or similar

Maybe you should stick to hockey trades.

Do you know why Bryant signed a 1 year deal? Because he's arbitration eligible for the first time. Next year he'll most likely sign another 1 year deal. When the time comes Cubs will pay him. Cubs are a big market team. Either way that proposal is putrid. It'd be like Yankees trading Judge to Cubs for Edwards Jr + utility player + overpaid player.

 

[Machinehead]

Me when I think I'm playing like shit in The Show but I find out I'm third in the NL in WAR

 

[Machinehead]

Saw Cervelli today

Feels

 

[YoSoyLalo]

So, Bern does baseball trades now...

Is nothing sacred?