Mitch "Selke" Marner

[Bluelines]

Is there a guy on the Leafs who is a better defensive forward? Is there a guy on the ice the at same time as Mitch that is a better defensive forward? Bergeron maybe but the gap in defensive play between those two is as big as a hair.

Take the Edmonton game for example, Mitch was anticipating passes by his opponents before his opponents made the pass, there were a couple of plays in that particular game that were just simply amazing. The Oiler player was skating with the puck, Mitch read that he was going to do a drop pass before the player actually put the puck to the back side of his blade, Mitch had his stick in position and stole the puck.

I can't recall the Leafs ever having a forward who is so good defensively.

Will Mitch, at some point, during his career win the Selke?

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[SprDaVE]

He'll probably get some votes/consideration at some point if he keeps that up.

Toronto players tend to get completely overlooked/underrated for major trophies though.

 

[Cor]

He plays the PK, so possibly

However it tends to only go to centres

 

[ACC1224]

Selke? I doubt it unless he moves to the middle which I won't happen as long as Tavares and Matthews are here.

Although a great defensive player, he'll win a Hart before a Selke, IMO.

 

[deletethis]

Great way for the hockey community to sabotage contract negotiations. So yes, he'll win.

 

[Koolboss]

No

 

[Bluelines]

He plays the PK, so possibly

However it tends to only go to centres

It's funny (sad?) how traditional the NHL is.

Selke's have to go to centers. Norris has to go to the highest scoring D-man. Up till recently the Hart and Lindsay Awards had to go to a player on a play off team. Lady Bing usually uses PIM's as a big factor. Conn Smythe usually goes to a skater (forward).

It would be nice to see the voters put some critical thought into their votes.

 

[BlueForever75]

I can definitely see Marner one day be nominated for the Selke. He will only get better defensively and his offensive traits and skills speak for themselves.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

He will get votes like Kadri did a few years ago but no there is no real chance for him to win it. Bergeron, Coutourier, Barkov, Karlsson, Stone, Aho, and even Tavares over Marner. I'm missing tons of names here too. I'd say he'll probably be top 15-10 in voting most years.

 

[DarkKnight]

This is why I don't think the "importance" to the team between Marner and Matthews is as wide as some argue here. Marner is doing it all.

 

[Cor]

It's funny (sad?) how traditional the NHL is.

Selke's have to go to centers. Norris has to go to the highest scoring D-man. Up till recently the Hart and Lindsay Awards had to go to a player on a play off team. Lady Bing usually uses PIM's as a big factor. Conn Smythe usually goes to a skater (forward).

It would be nice to see the voters put some critical thought into their votes.

The Ted Lindsay award is fine because it’s voted on by players.

If the rest of the awards were voted on by players, I think the results would be better.

Media creates up all these little fine print stuff like Hart can’t go to someone who missed the playoffs but also can’t go to someone who had too good of a team. Norris is all about points. Etc etc

 

[Pi]

This is why I don't think the "importance" to the team between Marner and Matthews is as wide as some argue here. Marner is doing it all.

Correction: Marner is getting the opportunity to do it all.

Playing PK isn't hard. If you notice BTW, our PK is worse than average.

It's a tough award to win, especially for wingers.

Marner will never even be nominated for a Selke let alone win one.

 

[ACC1224]

This is why I don't think the "importance" to the team between Marner and Matthews is as wide as some argue here. Marner is doing it all.

It's not and he will receive similar compensation as a result.

 

[Bluelines]

This is why I don't think the "importance" to the team between Marner and Matthews is as wide as some argue here. Marner is doing it all.

I would agree.

I think Matthews upside is much higher than Mitch's but right now Mitch is by far the more impactful player of the two... Simply put Mitch is doing more with the tools he has than Matthews is. Glad to have both of them but Mitch is clearly the guy who is the day in day out engine who drives this ship.

If Matthews figures it out, he could win a Rocket.

 

[Morgs]

If he gets any votes that's honestly pathetic lol.

He has bad metrics defensively 5v5 and there's literally 100's of guys that deserve it over him. Hes not McDavid, P. Kane, or Laine pathetic bad defensively, or even Matthews bad for that matter, but f*** Hyman, Brown, Nylander, Kadri, Kapanen and Tavares are all better defensive top-9 players and would deserve it over him.

 

[Bluelines]

Correction: Marner is getting the opportunity to do it all.

Playing PK isn't hard. If you notice BTW, our PK is worse than average.

It's a tough award to win, especially for wingers.

Marner will never even be nominated for a Selke let alone win one.

Sure it is.

35 GA on our PK, 5th least in the league for goals against. The % is more of a weighted function of the amount of times we were short handed, we have the least short handed times.

 

[I Believe]

I think Mark Stone has the best chance for a winger.

Too many good centres in this league for a winger to win it though.

 

[Bluelines]

If he gets any votes that's honestly pathetic lol.

He has bad metrics defensively 5v5 and there's literally 100's of guys that deserve it over him. Hes not McDavid, P. Kane, or Laine pathetic bad defensively, or even Matthews bad for that matter, but **** Hyman, Brown, Nylander, Kadri, Kapanen and Tavares are all better defensive top-9 players and would deserve it over him.

Which metric's would those be?

 

[Morgs]

Which metric's would those be?

xGA/60 RAPM and:

It's ok he's not good defensively though, most guys aren't and really it doesn't matter lol. He's pretty damn close to an elite 5v5 offensive player (not convinced he is this good without Tavares), and arguably a top-5 PP player in the league. We don't need him to be the defensive wizard Leaf fans have convinced themselves he (and Matthews) is .

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

xGA/60 RAPM and:

It's ok he's not good defensively though, most guys aren't and really it doesn't matter lol. He's pretty damn close to an elite 5v5 offensive player (not convinced he is this good without Tavares), and arguably a top-5 PP player in the league. We don't need him to be the defensive wizard Leaf fans have convinced themselves he (and Matthews) is .

He's at his best defensively in the offensive zone breaking up passes and just being a sh*t disturber. You already know we agree though. Get zone exits like Willy boi

 

[Spirit of 67]

Voted yes.
Because I like him.

 

[Morgs]

He's at his best defensively in the offensive zone breaking up passes and just being a sh*t disturber. You already know we agree though. Get zone exits like Willy boi

Tbf they're both elite in transition.

 

[zeke]

xGA/60 RAPM and:

It's ok he's not good defensively though, most guys aren't and really it doesn't matter lol. He's pretty damn close to an elite 5v5 offensive player (not convinced he is this good without Tavares), and arguably a top-5 PP player in the league. We don't need him to be the defensive wizard Leaf fans have convinced themselves he (and Matthews) is .

Marner's not elite defensively, but McCurdy is still relying on stats that entirely ignore that Mitch is playing against the other teams' top lines every shift.

 

[Morgs]

Marner's not elite defensively, but McCurdy is still relying on stats that entirely ignore that Mitch is playing against the other teams' top lines every shift.

I know how Micah works, its just sometimes easier to show a picture to people instead of quoting out stats they don't want to understand. Especially when it comes to the golden boy, its hard to not make my quotes go off.

I'm basing my take almost exclusively off xGA/60 RAPM - what EvolvingWild have stated on multiple occasions to be the best stat to judge a players defensive ability. Really the only thing about Marner's defense that could be considered "Selke-Worthy" is his competition.

 

[Bluelines]

xGA/60 RAPM and:

It's ok he's not good defensively though, most guys aren't and really it doesn't matter lol. He's pretty damn close to an elite 5v5 offensive player (not convinced he is this good without Tavares), and arguably a top-5 PP player in the league. We don't need him to be the defensive wizard Leaf fans have convinced themselves he (and Matthews) is .

Why are unblocked shots from the slot a good indicator of Mitch's defensive abilities?