Value of: Mitch Marner or Nylander for a TOP D-MAN.

[FerrisRox]

Have you followed Jake Grdiners career to see the calibre of player he is? He’s not great if you haven’t.

Barrie hasn’t worked out how they wanted but it wasn’t a terrible deal. Where is the link saying they can’t re-sign Barrie?

Also it doesn’t seem you are aware that if they trade Barrie they will be getting something in return, so we will see what that is.

I have followed Gardiner's career closely and was a huge proponent of the Leafs getting rid of him.

But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a cap situation that doesn't allow you to retain pieces you need. Whether Barrie leaves as a free agent or leaves in a trade today, he still leaves a big hole on the blue line and if the solution for filling it is Lili or Sandin, the team's defence will continue to be a problem next year and there's no cap space to properly address it.

Dubas has f***ed this up.

As for where is the link about how the Leafs can't re-sign Barrie - give your head a shake. How do the Leafs have the cap space to re-sign Barrie and how stupid would they be to bring him back on a long term deal? That would be idiotic.

 

[TopCheese]

Lehner/Erik Gustaffson/Dylan Strome

for

Nylander

Toronto would say yes but chi would decline

 

[Sniper99]

Got a link to that? Dubas should be fired if he was offered a top pairing D for Nylander.

Not really a link to it, just said it in a big media scrum after he signed the new contract.

 

[Dr Pepper]

If you could get a re-do though, would you make that deal again?

Barrie doesn't even know if he's finishing the season in Toronto, and Kerfoot was rumoured to be on the move earlier this year as well although both have shone at times.

Kadri has already topped last year's goal total, albeit on a stronger Avs team. And Calle Rosen continues to toil away in the minors. I kept thinking he'd get a look in Toronto, figured Colorado would change that. Guess not.

If I went back in time, I would do the deal again. We also lost muzzin for awhile this year and we have been without Rielly for much of the season.

we needed and still need Barrie

Well how about that, he's back already! Maybe now's his time to shine.

 

[Strangle]

Well how about that, he's back already! Maybe now's his time to shine.

I don’t get it?

 

[Dr Pepper]

I don’t get it?

Rosen's back in Toronto already. Leafs just traded for him.

 

[Yackiberg8]

I have followed Gardiner's career closely and was a huge proponent of the Leafs getting rid of him.

But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a cap situation that doesn't allow you to retain pieces you need. Whether Barrie leaves as a free agent or leaves in a trade today, he still leaves a big hole on the blue line and if the solution for filling it is Lili or Sandin, the team's defence will continue to be a problem next year and there's no cap space to properly address it.

Dubas has f*cked this up.

As for where is the link about how the Leafs can't re-sign Barrie - give your head a shake. How do the Leafs have the cap space to re-sign Barrie and how stupid would they be to bring him back on a long term deal? That would be idiotic.

You make no sense. You are ripping Dubas for not being able to sign two players you admit that they shouldn’t sign?

If they decide they need a defenceman, which most would say they do, there are ways to make room to bring one in...it doesn’t take much thought to figure out how that would be possible.

 

[Baberham Lincoln]

You mean Rinne? Also, Rinne? Really?

Yea Rinne, brainfart. I think with a change of scenery he's still a top notch goalie and can be had for cheap. Salary going both ways to make it work. Look at Fleury he was being outshone and went to Vegas and played great there.

 

[Baberham Lincoln]

You mean Rinne? Also, Rinne? Really?

Yea Rinne, brainfart. I think with a change of scenery he's still a top notch goalie and can be had for cheap. Salary going both ways to make it work. Look at Fleury he was being outshone and went to Vegas and played great there.

 

[FerrisRox]

You make no sense. You are ripping Dubas for not being able to sign two players you admit that they shouldn’t sign?

Nope, I'm criticizing him for creating a situation where he has so little room to manoeuvre under the cap that he has to let assets walk away for nothing then spend additional assets to replace then have the replacements walk away for nothing.

Gardiner/Kadri/Barrie for nothing is atrocious asset management.

 

[Clownish]

Toronto would say yes but chi would decline

Why? They got "meh" picks for Lehner and Gus, neither were in their long-term plans while Strome has fallen off a cliff and probably needs to be split up from his buddy Debrincat to wake 'Cat up as well.

 

[Yackiberg8]

Nope, I'm criticizing him for creating a situation where he has so little room to manoeuvre under the cap that he has to let assets walk away for nothing then spend additional assets to replace then have the replacements walk away for nothing.

Gardiner/Kadri/Barrie for nothing is atrocious asset management.

Doesn’t seem like you have the first clue regarding asset management.

He kept Gardiner to play the rest of the year. Gardiner had another crap run in the playoffs so the team decided to move on. You don’t proceed to sign Gardiner after that just because you don’t get an asset for him otherwise, that would be incredibly dumb. You also don’t trade one of your top 4 D for assets when you are trying to make a run for the Cup.

Kadri was traded for Barrie....they are keeping Barrie this year for the same reason as Gardiner. Will they resign him? Maybe not but they want him around for this year as their must not have been the deal they needed out there.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Nope, I'm criticizing him for creating a situation where he has so little room to manoeuvre under the cap that he has to let assets walk away for nothing then spend additional assets to replace then have the replacements walk away for nothing.

Gardiner/Kadri/Barrie for nothing is atrocious asset management.

You have Kadri and Barrie for nothing when they were traded for each other. The Leafs also got Kerfoot in the deal.

 

[FerrisRox]

You have Kadri and Barrie for nothing when they were traded for each other. The Leafs also got Kerfoot in the deal.

I have Kadri and Barrie for nothing because that's the end of the equation. The Leafs don't have the money to resign Barrie (nor should they, he was an idiotic acquisition in the first place) so, he like Gardiner before, will walk this summer.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Nope, I'm criticizing him for creating a situation where he has so little room to manoeuvre under the cap that he has to let assets walk away for nothing then spend additional assets to replace then have the replacements walk away for nothing.

Gardiner/Kadri/Barrie for nothing is atrocious asset management.

Considering these Dmen, its not a loss, they're horrible.
Ceci will walk too.
Bozak walked
JVR walked
no huge losses

Kadri is the only real loss, but he's not producing anything for anyone right now.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I have Kadri and Barrie for nothing because that's the end of the equation. The Leafs don't have the money to resign Barrie (nor should they, he was an idiotic acquisition in the first place) so, he like Gardiner before, will walk this summer.

Depends on what happens in the summer doesn't it? Also, Barrie wasn't the only player the Leafs go in the deal. Lot's of players leave in free agency every year.

 

[FerrisRox]

Depends on what happens in the summer doesn't it? Also, Barrie wasn't the only player the Leafs go in the deal. Lot's of players leave in free agency every year.

You're missing the point, and considering your posting history, I think you're doing it on purpose.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Toronto would say yes but chi would decline

So Nylander is worth less than Strome + 2nd + 3rd?

 

[seanlinden]

As much as I think the Leafs need a culture shock... and as much as I believe the only way to accomplish that is by trading one of the big 4, I don't think it's going to happen... simply because it's not something they NEED to do in order to fix the obvious holes on the team.

Yes, they are at $77m to 17 players next year, assuming an $84m cap, it leaves $7m for 6 players... but I think it's important we consider where those 6 players realistically need to play. Yes, they need a top pair defenceman to log big minutes with Morgan Rielly, but beyond that, you're talking about a #5/6 defenceman, 2 4th liners, and some spares.

The Leafs have displayed a strong ability to find guys that can slot into the depth portions of their lineup at very cheap rates, especially up front... whether it be Spezza, Engvall, Mikheyev, Aberg, Shore, etc.. I believe this ability comes from solid mid & late round drafting for the young guys, good relations with Russian UFAs, and an ability to give vets on the cusp an opportunity that they might find themselves with a superstar player, and if not, a guaranteed NHL salary, and a farm team just down the road. I don't see the Leafs losing this ability.

They have Johnsson, Kapanen, Kerfoot and Dermott who as far as I can tell, the Leafs would trade in a heartbeat for the right defenceman or a true Kadri replacement in the #3 centre spot. If they got a better #3C, I'd go as far as saying that they'd be better with somebody like Kadri and a $700k forward, than they would with Kerfoot and Johnsson.

The last recollection I have of a forward the calibre of the Leafs big 4 being traded for a defenceman is Hall for Larsson, and I don't think the market for defencemen is at that level these days.

The sad part is -- a competent GM would have signed the big 3 for roughly $2.5m less than their total deals. That $2.5m would make finding that defenceman much much easier.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You're missing the point, and considering your posting history, I think you're doing it on purpose.

Maybe, what is your point?

 

[slg1963]

The leafs can trade Kapanen + Johnson (for futures) and gain 6m in Cap space. There is only 1 dman in NY that fits the Leafs in my opinion: Trouba.

Trouba for Marner in the offseason then .

 

[Tit]

Trouba for Marner in the offseason then .

lol no

 

[Paul4587]

If one is available, Marner could net a legit number one with term.

Nylander probably gets you more of a 2-3 guy. Like a Trouba or Brodin.

 

[seanlinden]

To those who think the Leafs should trade one of Marner/Nylander... who do you see as the ideal return?

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I have Kadri and Barrie for nothing because that's the end of the equation. The Leafs don't have the money to resign Barrie (nor should they, he was an idiotic acquisition in the first place) so, he like Gardiner before, will walk this summer.

Gardiner was gone the second Muffin was traded for. The asset trade off was Muffin for Gardiner. You were not trading Gardiner at the TDL as he had a back injury and his value last year to the Leafs was higher than what you would have gotten for him.
As for Kadri, he was gone from the Leafs the second he was kicked off the ice for a second straight playoff series. Dubas had to settle for the Barrie/Kerfoot deal after his first deal was nixed. Was it a great trade? Not at all but Kadri put the team in that situation not Dubas.
Kadri was not traded for cap reasons. He was traded for being a complete bone head.
I am not defending Dubas on this trade as someone really blew it in evaluating how Barrie would fit. But this trade was probably the only one left out there. Remember he tried for P.K. at the draft and even talked with Pittsburgh about Letang after they had the Kessel deal fall through.
Where Dubas is to blame on asset management with Barrie is not moving him either in the offseason or at the TDL to at least re coup some assets that he is going to need to either put with a package to get a RHD or replace the pieces going out to acquire that RHD.
But all of this has nothing to do with cap management. It has everything to do with asset management which Dubas is starting to show he struggles with.