Mitch Marner or Johnny Gaudreau?

[The Moose is Loose]

Marner as a player, Gaudreau if contracts are considered

 

[Mac2Rants]

Lol Marner for me

 

[Hugh Mungus]

This poll reeks of recency bias

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This poll reeks of recency bias

Not really.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I’d take Gaudreau after Marners next contract easily. He’s going to be making double what Gaudreau makes.

Contracts have nothing to do with who is a better player, if they did, Luicic wouldn't be making 6 million while Hyman makes barely over 2

 

[Morlu]

Contracts have nothing to do with who is a better player, if they did, Luicic wouldn't be making 6 million while Hyman makes barely over 2

I mean when players are comparable the contract definitely matters.

 

[Face Of Bear]

What was Johnny doing @ 21 y/o?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I mean when players are comparable the contract definitely matters.

The reality is though, as soon as you mention contract, it's essentially an admission the other guy is a better player.

 

[Mugzy97]

What was Johnny doing @ 21 y/o?

Good question, he was just finishing up his first NHL season.

I fought with a lot of people about who the better player going forward would be from this exact poll last time. It was Marner then and it is clearly Marner now. I'm glad a lot of people agree with me this time around.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Good question, he was just finishing up his first NHL season.

I fought with a lot of people about who the better player going forward would be from this exact poll last time. It was Marner then and it is clearly Marner now. I'm glad a lot of people agree with me this time around.

Gaudreau at 21 was making plays like this in the 2nd round of the playoffs:

 

[Mugzy97]

Gaudreau at 21 was making plays like this in the 2nd round of the playoffs:

That's great, have you been watching the Leafs games recently?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Gaudreau at 21 was making plays like this in the 2nd round of the playoffs:

At 21 Marner is used as a PKer and to defend leads in one goal games to the buzzer. When do we see those clips from Gaudreau?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That's great, have you been watching the Leafs games recently?

Yes, Marner has been terrific.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

At 21 Marner is used as a PKer and to defend leads in one goal games to the buzzer. When do we see those clips from Gaudreau?

I've posted countless clips of Gaudreau making excellent defensive plays in the past - he's always been used to defend leads in one goal games and was an excellent penalty killer in the NCAA - he's asked to play PK but has yet to have a coach who likes to use his stars for that role (like Babcock always has).

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I've posted countless clips of Gaudreau making excellent defensive plays in the past - he's always been used to defend leads in one goal games and was an excellent penalty killer in the NCAA - he's asked to play PK but has yet to have a coach who likes to use his stars for that role (like Babcock always has).

Almost surprising for the forward who leads the league in giveaways every year.

 

[Haatley]

Almost surprising for the forward who leads the league in giveaways every year.

The more you carry the puck, the more you give it away... its pretty simple law of averages.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Almost surprising for the forward who leads the league in giveaways every year.

Well considering giveaways are an indicator of how much you have the puck / pass the puck and not really an indicator of defensive play, it's not really surprising.

His giveaways are due to him having to do all the heavy lifting on his line. His two linemates Monahan and Lindholm (who just combined for 160 points this year) have been shown to produce like 3rd liners when without Gaudreau at 5v5 (if I recall, since 14-15, they've both maintained a P/60 around 1.5 without Gaudreau, but that jumps to around 2.2 with him). So that should give you a good idea of how much he elevates the play of his linemates, which is a result of him carrying the puck often and making lots of passes (both major drivers of giveaways).

Gaudreau and Marner share many similarities, most notably their elite anticipation and awareness.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Almost surprising for the forward who leads the league in giveaways every year.

Yet mysteriously, other puck carriers don't have the same results and actually have positive takeaway to giveaway ratios. Shocking stuff!

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Well considering giveaways are an indicator of how much you have the puck / pass the puck and not really an indicator of defensive play, it's not really surprising.

His giveaways are due to him having to do all the heavy lifting on his line. His two linemates Monahan and Lindholm (who just combined for 160 points this year) have been shown to produce like 3rd liners when without Gaudreau at 5v5 (if I recall, since 14-15, they've both maintained a P/60 around 1.5 without Gaudreau, but that jumps to around 2.2 with him). So that should give you a good idea of how much he elevates the play of his linemates, which is a result of him carrying the puck often and making lots of passes (both major drivers of giveaways).

Gaudreau and Marner share many similarities, most notably their elite anticipation and awareness.

Yes we've heard it all before. He's so good, that's why he gives it away so much. No other forward in the league carries the puck. No other forward in the league has positive takeaway to giveaway ratios while doing so.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yes we've heard it all before. He's so good, that's why he gives it away so much. No other forward in the league carries the puck. No other forward in the league has positive takeaway to giveaway ratios while doing so.

Gaudreau carries the puck more than any winger in the league. It's also shown that he makes an insane amount of passes. In the 2018 WC he led all players in competed passes by a huge margin - and was the only forward in the top 10:

I don't know what is tracked for NHL completed passes, but I would imagine he either 1st or very close to it among all forwards.

 

[Beyonder91]

Flames needing impactful playoff performance from Johnny Gaudreau - Sportsnet.ca

Gaudreau continuing where he left off when Flames got swept in 2017. No goals in this round or their last playoff round in 2017. Very slim chance the Flames win if he doesn't step up.

 

[Beyonder91]

Meanwhile...

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Gaudreau carries the puck more than any winger in the league. It's also shown that he makes an insane amount of passes. In the 2018 WC he led all players in competed passes by a huge margin - and was the only forward in the top 10:

I don't know what is tracked for NHL completed passes, but I would imagine he either 1st or very close to it among all forwards.

Allen Iverson used to be all the rage for his points but took an insane amount of shots. Sometimes better strategy can be your friend. This isn't just about his giveaways but also his relative lack of takeaways.

Since entering the league he is 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st and 1st worst at giveaways (among forwards).. For takeaways he is 10th, 65th, 65th, 94th and 28th.

Over the span Marner has been in the league, Gaudreau is 1st, 1st and 1st worst in giveaways and 65th, 94th and 28th at takeaways. Total difference is a -164.

Mitch Marner is 17th, 57th and 28th worst at giveaways but 8th, 4th and 6th best at takeaways. Total difference of +57.

 

[Beyonder91]

Gaudreau at 21 was making plays like this in the 2nd round of the playoffs

Do you even realize how many great clips could be put together of Marner from these playoffs and last. Both offensive AND defensive?

 

[93LEAFS]

I've posted countless clips of Gaudreau making excellent defensive plays in the past - he's always been used to defend leads in one goal games and was an excellent penalty killer in the NCAA - he's asked to play PK but has yet to have a coach who likes to use his stars for that role (like Babcock always has).

Babcock used Zetterberg and Datsyuk. But, he hasn't used any stars with the Leafs outside of Tavares on faceoffs. Generally, his PKers have been 3rd and 4th line guys who don't get PP time (Connor Brown, Hyman, Komarov, Kapanen, Lindholm, etc). Marner is the first-star player he's used consistently, he was the 5th guy rotated in, then started getting full-time duty when they trade Lindholm. Babcock really hasn't used stars consistently as PKers in his 4 years here. He's left Matthews, JT (outside of faceoffs), and Kadri (not a star but was our match-up center) since he got here.