Miscellaneous NHL Talk V10.0 - 2018/19 Regular Season

[Ghosts Beer]

What would have happened on this board if Fletcher got Muzzin for say

Allison+ Ginning + 2020 first
or
Ratcliffe + Friedman + 2019 first (top-5 protected)

???
...which would be about equal value compared to what Toronto gave up in the deal. I envision a lynchmob on Broad Street.

I would not have done either of those trades.

 

[Rebels57]

What would have happened on this board if Fletcher got Muzzin for say

Allison+ Ginning + 2020 first
or
Ratcliffe + Friedman + 2019 first (top-5 protected)

???
...which would be about equal value compared to what Toronto gave up in the deal. I envision a lynchmob on Broad Street.

What would have happened on this board if Fletcher got Muzzin for say

Allison+ Ginning + 2020 first
or
Ratcliffe + Friedman + 2019 first (top-5 protected)

???
...which would be about equal value compared to what Toronto gave up in the deal. I envision a lynchmob on Broad Street.

Not sure those hypothetical are that similar.

Allison > Grundstrom
Ratcliffe > Grundstrom

Our 1st in both 2019 and probably 2020 > Torontos 2019 1st

 

[FLYguy3911]

Funny how a good team like the TML don't care about this (RHD was a need) and just got the best player they could. Meanwhile the Flyers fret over fit and just stick Hagg in the lineup for two years.

The last time the Flyers were in the SCF they had 6 lefty defensemen.

Well part of the reason Hagg made the club originally was because he supposedly could play the right side. Here we are.

In today’s game it is incredibly difficult for a defenseman to play their off-side and be just as effective. Forecheckers are too quick and often catch guys in tough spots, usually on their backhand. There are also a lot of subtle little things that go unnoticed like the ability to go D-D in the OZ. Stick positioning disadvantages defending rushes, etc. The simplest of things become more difficult.

Ghost is probably the only notable defenseman to do it at a top pair, or close to it, level. Ghost is a short area freak which is why he can excel there...but now he plays the left side. Brodie did it while being carried by Giordano and crashed shortly after they were separated. Sanheim is now playing the right side. He looks OK because he’s talented and rangy, but he also looks like a fraction of the player that he did on the left side (I’ve said this for years). The best defensemen in the league play their strong sides. There is a reason for that.

It remains to be seen how it all works out in Toronto. It looks like a fair trade value-wise and Toronto is in win now mode so it makes sense on paper. I’m not against trading for lefties because at the end of the day net impact is what matters, but I’m baking that into what I am willing to give up- in addition to considerations for the Expansion draft. Muzzin is essentially a 1.5 year rental. Makes sense for Toronto. Does it make the most sense here?

 

[Tripod]

No one should complain that we did not do this type of deal. As stated, being so far out, we waste this years playoffs so really it becomes a rental price. We can do that in the summer if we want AND hopefully we have that later 1st from Simmonds. No way were we going to trade our 2019 1st since it's top 6 right now.

Sell Simmonds, Raffl, Folin, and if you can, Neuvirth and Elliott too.

Then use those assets, other assets, and UFA time to try and add high end talent to the team. This PAST summer was the time to make changes and Hextall failed. Now it will be Fletch who does it with the mandate from above.

Exciting and scary all at once!

 

[kudymen]

Almost as if it was a team stat

 

[FLYguy3911]

Almost as if it was a team stat

Check out the WHL plus/minus leaders. Pretty much a listing of Prince Albert’s roster.

 

[renberg]

No one should complain that we did not do this type of deal. As stated, being so far out, we waste this years playoffs so really it becomes a rental price. We can do that in the summer if we want AND hopefully we have that later 1st from Simmonds. No way were we going to trade our 2019 1st since it's top 6 right now.

Sell Simmonds, Raffl, Folin, and if you can, Neuvirth and Elliott too.

Then use those assets, other assets, and UFA time to try and add high end talent to the team. This PAST summer was the time to make changes and Hextall failed. Now it will be Fletch who does it with the mandate from above.

Exciting and scary all at once!

My thought is that Fletcher is going to drop a bomb of a trade where a player(s) who people think are close to being untradeable get moved off of this roster in order to fill a need that the FO has pinpointed as essential. Right now the move that looks to be most pressing is a top grade RHD to go with Provorov. Some more speed and size on the wing. After that a veteran goalie to split time with Hart. The last one can wait until summer since there will be a lot of FAs out there that can be had to fill that bill.

 

[Garbage Goal]

What would have happened on this board if Fletcher got Muzzin for say

Allison+ Ginning + 2020 first
or
Ratcliffe + Friedman + 2019 first (top-5 protected)

???
...which would be about equal value compared to what Toronto gave up in the deal. I envision a lynchmob on Broad Street.

The thing is you don’t trade top ten 1sts away. Late 1sts, sure.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Muzzin isn't past his peak, he's in his peak. AFAICT he's still getting better. He's been better than Doughty this year.

And Canes are the best team of past 5 years, yet they haven't been to playoffs once.

 

[tucson83]

I don't see us beating Tampa. Panarin and Muzzin probably don't change that.

just throwing it out there, what about seguin, benn, and Alex Pietrangelo?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My thought is that Fletcher is going to drop a bomb of a trade where a player(s) who people think are close to being untradeable get moved off of this roster in order to fill a need that the FO has pinpointed as essential. Right now the move that looks to be most pressing is a top grade RHD to go with Provorov. Some more speed and size on the wing. After that a veteran goalie to split time with Hart. The last one can wait until summer since there will be a lot of FAs out there that can be had to fill that bill.

I agree with all of this, except the forward doesn’t have to be a wing; could be a center, allowing G to move back to wing.

 

[BernieParent]

So who would be the top 5 top-pairing RHDs whom the Flyers would have a glimmer to a semi-reasonable chance at getting?

1. Karlsson, if the Sharks can't resign him and if the Flyers can outbid all other suitors.
2. Pietrangelo, if the Blues decide to rebuild
   
3. Trouba, if he and the Jets can't agree on a contract; they have $56 million committed to 11 players next season
   
4. Spurgeon, if the Wild decide to rebuild
   
5. Doughty, if the Kings decide to rebuild

The top 2, to me, are at least within the realm of possibility and the last 3 are pipe dreams that would, at the very least, cost a king's (so to speak in Doughty's case) ransom.

 

[deadhead]

No one should complain that we did not do this type of deal. As stated, being so far out, we waste this years playoffs so really it becomes a rental price. We can do that in the summer if we want AND hopefully we have that later 1st from Simmonds. No way were we going to trade our 2019 1st since it's top 6 right now.

Sell Simmonds, Raffl, Folin, and if you can, Neuvirth and Elliott too.

Then use those assets, other assets, and UFA time to try and add high end talent to the team. This PAST summer was the time to make changes and Hextall failed. Now it will be Fletch who does it with the mandate from above.

Exciting and scary all at once!

I don't think Hextall "failed," I think he had always targeted this summer when he was going to start making big moves.
He just didn't explain his strategy to his bosses, nor prime fan expectations (we have great talent coming, but a rebuild takes time, oh, that ugly word, "rebuild").

We can already see the difference, the scrubs are being moved out as the prospects get enough experience to be ready to play in the NHL.
Once you build up depth from top to bottom, then you're in position to trade/buy upgrades - but until then, you're just moving chairs around (i.e. trading a starter at one position for a starter at another, instead of trading a starter plus surplus assets for a better starter).

 

[JojoTheWhale]

For this org as currently settled and factoring in contracts, cost of trades, etc etc, I'll die on the Spurgeon >> Pietrangelo hill.

Not that I expect either to be moved, etc.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For this org as currently settled and factoring in contracts, cost of trades, etc etc, I'll die on the Spurgeon >> Pietrangelo hill.

You do that, I'll be further entrenching myself on the adjacent "No Martin Erat" hill. I'm building bunkers now, gotta get started on the crocodile moat.

 

[Garbage Goal]

So who would be the top 5 top-pairing RHDs whom the Flyers would have a glimmer to a semi-reasonable chance at getting?

1. Karlsson, if the Sharks can't resign him and if the Flyers can outbid all other suitors.
2. Pietrangelo, if the Blues decide to rebuild
   
3. Trouba, if he and the Jets can't agree on a contract; they have $56 million committed to 11 players next season
   
4. Spurgeon, if the Wild decide to rebuild
   
5. Doughty, if the Kings decide to rebuild

The top 2, to me, are at least within the realm of possibility and the last 3 are pipe dreams that would, at the very least, cost a king's (so to speak in Doughty's case) ransom.

That Doughty contract is real bad long term.

 

[deadhead]

So who would be the top 5 top-pairing RHDs whom the Flyers would have a glimmer to a semi-reasonable chance at getting?

1. Karlsson, if the Sharks can't resign him and if the Flyers can outbid all other suitors.
2. Pietrangelo, if the Blues decide to rebuild
   
3. Trouba, if he and the Jets can't agree on a contract; they have $56 million committed to 11 players next season
   
4. Spurgeon, if the Wild decide to rebuild
   
5. Doughty, if the Kings decide to rebuild

The top 2, to me, are at least within the realm of possibility and the last 3 are pipe dreams that would, at the very least, cost a king's (so to speak in Doughty's case) ransom.

EK is probably a nonstarter, he will have better offers in terms of location and cup ready teams. And that ankle on a 7 year deal? He's probably staying in San Jose.

Spurgeon will be 30 on the last year of his contract next year, and is grossly undersized, two small D-men might be pushing it.
Pietrangelo will be 30 and is on the last year of his contract next year.
Doughty will be 30 with 8 years left at $11M a year.

Doesn't make sense to trade for a D-man who you have to extend at 30, major assets AND major money, pass.

Trouba is the only credible target. You can give him 7-8 years at 25 years old, and have confidence he might play out his contract.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

My thought is that Fletcher is going to drop a bomb of a trade where a player(s) who people think are close to being untradeable get moved off of this roster in order to fill a need that the FO has pinpointed as essential. Right now the move that looks to be most pressing is a top grade RHD to go with Provorov. Some more speed and size on the wing. After that a veteran goalie to split time with Hart. The last one can wait until summer since there will be a lot of FAs out there that can be had to fill that bill.

You guys are nuts! Every year it's different crap. We need stay at home type for ghost, sniper for giroux, go after Berglund because he is defensively responsible 3C, need to trade for duchene because his speed is difference maker, need a bishop, but then bishop is available and he suddenly is made of glass so we need to go after darling instead.
All this crap is such a reactionary bs, what we need is talent, depth and a good coach to make it work.
Turds like hak would never even think about using players like versteeg or leino, yet lavi and q had them in sheltered role in their top6. They had their top d carry carle and seabrook enabling their offense instead of burying them for the likes of Amac.

All this crap about roles and balancing your d pairs and lines leads you to have muckers like dupuis and kunitz next to crosby, orpik being a safety valve for Letang and Craig Adams with Scuderi to take care of penalty kill lol.

 

[tucson83]

EK is probably a nonstarter, he will have better offers in terms of location and cup ready teams. And that ankle on a 7 year deal? He's probably staying in San Jose.

Spurgeon will be 30 on the last year of his contract next year, and is grossly undersized, two small D-men might be pushing it.
Pietrangelo will be 30 and is on the last year of his contract next year.
Doughty will be 30 with 8 years left at $11M a year.

Doesn't make sense to trade for a D-man who you have to extend at 30, major assets AND major money, pass.

Trouba is the only credible target. You can give him 7-8 years at 25 years old, and have confidence he might play out his contract.

do you have a problem with older players that are good? im sorry what teams are going to give up 19 -22 year old stars that are cheap?

you really think gms are that dumb?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

So who would be the top 5 top-pairing RHDs whom the Flyers would have a glimmer to a semi-reasonable chance at getting?

1. Karlsson, if the Sharks can't resign him and if the Flyers can outbid all other suitors.
2. Pietrangelo, if the Blues decide to rebuild
   
3. Trouba, if he and the Jets can't agree on a contract; they have $56 million committed to 11 players next season
   
4. Spurgeon, if the Wild decide to rebuild
   
5. Doughty, if the Kings decide to rebuild

The top 2, to me, are at least within the realm of possibility and the last 3 are pipe dreams that would, at the very least, cost a king's (so to speak in Doughty's case) ransom.

Karlsson, Spurgeon, & Trouba in that order would be my preferred choices when taking everything into considering. I’m not saying they’re bad or anything but when factoring in cost, contract, age, role/usage, etc. I wouldn’t really have a whole ton of interest in Pietrangelo or Doughty.

 

[Psuhockey]

Karlsson, Spurgeon, & Trouba in that order would be my preferred choices when taking everything into considering. I’m not saying they’re bad or anything but when factoring in cost, contract, age, role/usage, etc. I wouldn’t really have a whole ton of interest in Pietrangelo or Doughty.

Why not Doughty? Cost of trade is the only reason I can think of.

 

[Chinatown88]

One Parayko please.

 

[Psuhockey]

That Doughty contract is real bad long term.

That’s what Panarin is looking for and what EK is likely to get if not more minus 1 year.

Drew Doughty is one of the few players in the league that would actually be worth that money IMO.

 

[Garbage Goal]

That’s what Panarin is looking for and what EK is likely to get if not more minus 1 year.

Drew Doughty is one of the few players in the league that would actually be worth that money IMO.

I doubt Panarin gets anywhere near that. Doughty’s contract is just .5 below Toews and Kane’s which were the highest in the league before McDavid. He has an NMC too IIRC. Panarin is like a year or two younger as well. I’ll be shocked if he gets more than 9 mil, maybe 9.5, and if he leaves Columbus he can’t get 8 years either.

That Karlsson contract would be just as bad long-term as Doughty’s. Except he’s on a competitive team whereas LA and us aren’t currently.

 

[renberg]

One Parayko please.

JMO, but I think that the Blues would move off of Pietrangelo before they'd deal Parayko.