Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LVII: Countdown to June 2nd and the draft lottery

[Beef Invictus]

Lol, it's like you didn't even watch or follow the team this season.

I did, that's how I was able to notice that they were routinely at their best late in games. Remember the playoffs, where conditioning was blamed? They were at their best in overtime. Where badly conditioned, gassed teams collapse.

Swing and a miss.

 

[The Madrigal]

Because they got behind so often and their opponents were playing it safer to not concede quick goals.

"Practice had nothing to do with it"? Puh-lease. You can tell players to do things until you're blue in the face. Until it becomes muscle memory through practice and repetition, it's meaningless. Practice means a TON when you're trying to break a team of bad habits and instill proper reads and muscle memory. To contend otherwise is simply wrong.

Yep. It makes you wonder sometimes by some of the comments people make if they have ever played organized sports in their lives.

 

[The Madrigal]

I did, that's how I was able to notice that they were routinely at their best late in games. Remember the playoffs, where conditioning was blamed? They were at their best in overtime. Where badly conditioned, gassed teams collapse.

Swing and a miss.

I said this season. I know you can follow along if you try really hard so you don't have to rely on your strawman specials. Talk about a swing and a miss, lol.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't think what I am proposing is overly fancy, GB. I am not advocating them drawing up Harlem Globetrotter routines, but just players without the puck looking for soft spots among the D. How much easier to players make it to defend against them when they are standing still?

Players without the puck looking for soft spots is good, but that strategy works best after establishing possession deep and cycling. Trying to do too much with the puck near your offensive blueline is, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster. Just my opinion. I always respect yours.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Blaming the team's performance on conditioning is like the most authentic fan thing you can do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I said this season. I know you can follow along if you try really hard so you don't have to rely on your strawman specials. Talk about a swing and a miss, lol.

Yes, I included this season. Try harder. Do better.

The pathetic conditioning excuse that is supposed to absolve the coaches and staff (despite that still being their fault) goes back to the playoffs. See, what I did here was debunk your claim more thoroughly.

 

[The Madrigal]

Yes, I included this season. Try harder. Do better.

The pathetic conditioning excuse that is supposed to absolve the coaches and staff (despite that still being their fault) goes back to the playoffs. See, what I did here was debunk your claim more thoroughly.

And yet again you prove me right with your strawman bullshit which if nothing else is something you are very consistent with. I NEVER said the coaches were absolved of any blame. Unlike you I don't feel the need to find one singular source to blame a horrible season on, and can understand that there were a number of factors involved. One of which was conditioning.

Like I said, it's like you didn't even follow the team. TK admitted that he wasn't in the best shape coming into the season. We all know the issues Patrick had with this. Furthermore, you are also denying common sense considering a number of the players got covid which was difficult enough on them but then factor in the lack of practice time to get their legs back and there you go.

Coaching, conditioning, young players not stepping up, goaltending, poor special teams, etc were all reasons for their demise this season. But hey, stick to your lazy narrative that it was all the coaching and that conditioning and lack of practice time wasn't an issue. Oh, and when in doubt, throw in a strawman to move the goalpost on the argument. You are all too predictable homie, lol.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And yet again you prove me right with your strawman bullshit which if nothing else is something you are very consistent with. I NEVER said the coaches were absolved of any blame. Unlike you I don't feel the need to find one singular source to blame a horrible season on, and can understand that there were a number of factors involved. One of which was conditioning.

Like I said, it's like you didn't even follow the team. TK admitted that he wasn't in the best shape coming into the season. We all know the issues Patrick had with this. Furthermore, you are also denying common sense considering a number of the players got covid which was difficult enough on them but then factor in the lack of practice time to get their legs back and there you go.

Coaching, conditioning, young players not stepping up, goaltending, poor special teams, etc were all reasons for their demise this season. But hey, stick to your lazy narrative that it was all the coaching and that conditioning and lack of practice time wasn't an issue. Oh, and when in doubt, throw in a strawman to move the goalpost on the argument. You are all too predictable homie, lol.

Once more: If teamwide conditioning were the crippling problem it was made out to be, the team would have gotten worse as games went on, especially while playing the system they did. We'd have also expected them to get better as they worked into game shape. That's how conditioning works. Those things didn't happen.


Further, every single team was operating in the same conditions. Nobody had any advantage.

 

[DancingPanther]

tHaNkS foR pRoViNG mE rIgHt!!!

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's funny to me that people think significant conditioning occurs much during the season in practice, as if these are high school teams playing once per week. And that they therefore missed out on conditioning. If anything, replacing practices with games was a much more thorough workout than practice. In all sports you don't see people slipping conditioning practices into the rotation unless there's a longer break between games, otherwise maintenance and recovery is more the goal.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Pesce is a wizard. Slavin and Dougie get all the talk, but Pesce is right up there with them.

making my UNH WildCats proud

 

[Curufinwe]

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

He sent me some weird PMs back when I had enough free time/energy to post there, too. And insisted LSchenn was better than Gudas.

 

[GKJ]

It's funny to me that people think significant conditioning occurs much during the season in practice, as if these are high school teams playing once per week. And that they therefore missed out on conditioning. If anything, replacing practices with games was a much more thorough workout than practice. In all sports you don't see people slipping conditioning practices into the rotation unless there's a longer break between games, otherwise maintenance and recovery is more the goal.

I don't know about significant, but that's was the key factor when Stevens was fired and replaced with Lavy. He didn't think he could install his system because the players weren't in proper conditioning. They had weird games like the one in Montreal where the shots were 15-13 for the entire game. They got it just in time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't know about significant, but that's was the key factor when Stevens was fired and replaced with Lavy. He didn't think he could install his system because the players weren't in proper conditioning. They had weird games like the one in Montreal where the shots were 15-13 for the entire game. They got it just in time.

Yeah, and that was pretty damned bizarre. Practice must have been remarkably lax if they weren't even maintaining condition. Or it could have just been that players were conditioned for Stevens' playstyles but weren't ready for a more intensive Lavi style. Not necessarily out of shape, but not as in shape as they were gonna need to be.

Then again it could have just been coach speak. Cover your own likely rough transition period while blaming the guy whose gone.

Edit: "Bizarre" is just a good way in general to describe the Stevens era. From a system that seemed ad-libbed to the cake stuff and apparently trying to be everyone's friend. Didn't Pronger also quip that they didn't really do anything?

 

[DancingPanther]

Blaming the team's performance on conditioning is like the most authentic fan thing you can do.

Giroux needs to push them to work harder off the ice. Simmonds would never let this happen

 

[DancingPanther]

He sent me some weird PMs back when I had enough free time/energy to post there, too. And insisted LSchenn was better than Gudas.

That dude is wild. No question about it. Apparently that's his alt for some handle with roenick in it that got perma'd

 

[deadhead]

Once more: If teamwide conditioning were the crippling problem it was made out to be, the team would have gotten worse as games went on, especially while playing the system they did. We'd have also expected them to get better as they worked into game shape. That's how conditioning works. Those things didn't happen.

Further, every single team was operating in the same conditions. Nobody had any advantage.

Flyers were one of the hardest hit by COVID.
Their metrics improved considerably after Lake Tahoe, even with half the forwards infected and some having serious after affects.
The struggles were primarily historically poor goalie play.

Truth is we won't know, but let's see what happens this fall.
I won't be surprised if this team bounces back and finished with 100+ points next year.
Hart just being a league average goalie, combined with an upgrade for Elliott, is probably worth 20 points to this team.

 

[renberg]

It's simpler than that, a lot of talented players just "do it," and don't really understand the nuances of the game, they just see the puck open, but you can't teach that, or speed or change of direction. A guy like Braun will probably be a good coach, b/c his success depended on understanding the game, knowing angles and positioning, and the tendencies of opponents. That can be taught.

This is spot on. As a former coach and player I can attest to this. When you ask a great one why they did what they did, they usually shrug their shoulders because it just happens for them. It’s why they are the great ones.
Now you can get a guy such as Kimo who was not blessed with the greatest of natural skills but was a tremendous student of the game, and he could tell you why he did what he did and why what happened, happened. If the Flyers had a guy like him behind the bench, a lot of the **** that’s going on with this club would disappear.

 

[DancingPanther]

TAKE LAHOE BABYYYY

DRINK

 

[deadhead]

This season's Caps are the oldest team Lavi has had, actually. Just looked through them all. Aside from one Nashville roster that was also in the low 29 range (And the Canes winner), most of his rosters have been 27/28. So yeah, I don't see how you can argue Washington is his ideal or favorite type.

Look at his Cup winning team in Nashville, a veteran team that had a year off to regain their legs due to the lockout:
Brind'Amour (35), J Williams (24), Staal #2 (21), Stillman (32), Recchi (37), Cullen (29), Weight (35), Whitney (33), Adams (31), Ladd #4 (20), Larose (23), Adams (27)
Hedican (35), Ward (33), Commodore (26), Kaberle (32), Wallin (30), Wesley (37).

The problem with the Caps was probably the opposite, the truncated schedule probably meant their legs were shot by the playoffs.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Look at his Cup winning team in Nashville, a veteran team that had a year off to regain their legs due to the lockout:
Brind'Amour (35), J Williams (24), Staal #2 (21), Stillman (32), Recchi (37), Cullen (29), Weight (35), Whitney (33), Adams (31), Ladd #4 (20), Larose (23), Adams (27)
Hedican (35), Ward (33), Commodore (26), Kaberle (32), Wallin (30), Wesley (37).

Average age: 29.2

Younger than the Caps.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Look at his Cup winning team in Nashville,

 

[deadhead]

View attachment 439355

Opps.

 

[Cody Webster]

Islanders by 7 tonight

 

[Cody Webster]

Just kidding.... pens by 7

f***ing Carter