Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LVII: Countdown to June 2nd and the draft lottery

[bennysflyers16]

The only reason I don't mind as much this year is Wayne Train.

I'd like to see him experience a deep run after the garbage he had to put up with here and his brinf stint with the Devils.

I will be cheering for the Laffs over the Jets

 

[Tripod]

In the end, AV has had the team playing well for 2 months since he got here.

Took over- didn't play well
Jan-Mar 2020- playing well
Playoffs-didn't play well
Pre-covid-didn't play well
Post-covid-didn't play well

Maybe the coach needs to tweak his "system" when the team doesn't have the ability to do all the excuses being made for the coaching staff. If it's not working, do something about it.

 

[Rebels57]

I will be cheering for the Laffs over the Jets

I will too. No interest in watching another 2 rounds minimum of this Jets team based on how they played Edmonton.

 

[Tripod]

Yep. Most quality NHLers end up being shit coachs. Look at Kirk Muller, John MacLean, Phil Housley, Patrick Roy, Wayne Gretzky, and on and on the list goes. There haven't been many great coachs that were also great players. Brindy is definitely a unicorn.

We should have paid Larry Robinson a bunch of money to mold our young D as an assistant. He was one I wanted in our system.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yep. Most quality NHLers end up being shit coachs. Look at Kirk Muller, John MacLean, Phil Housley, Patrick Roy, Wayne Gretzky, and on and on the list goes. There haven't been many great coachs that were also great players. Brindy is definitely a unicorn.

This is often true regardless of sport, with people citing these coaches having instincts and talent and understanding of the game that creates a barrier. We've got former Yotes players saying Gretzky would say shit like "Just go where the puck is going to be." That's not exactly helpful for players who aren't thoroughly elite.

I suspect another issue is that good players play for a long time. The bad players don't. While the good players are still players, the bad players have often already started learning how to coach, so the good players enter their coaching careers well behind in terms of experience.

It sounds goofy to say that Lappy was too good...but he kind of was. He was able to play until his mid 30s, and by that point most coaches have already been at it for a while. This is a hindrance to him as a coach.

 

[ajgoal]

This is often true regardless of sport, with people citing these coaches having instincts and talent and understanding of the game that creates a barrier. We've got former Yotes players saying Gretzky would say shit like "Just go where the puck is going to be." That's not exactly helpful for players who aren't thoroughly elite.

I suspect another issue is that good players play for a long time. The bad players don't. While the good players are still players, the bad players have often already started learning how to coach, so the good players enter their coaching careers well behind in terms of experience.

I also think that the bad players watch the game more. They're not on the ice in most key situations. They play fewer minutes in general. Especially if they actively want to get better, they're watching tendencies and how successful teams react to various things that occur on the ice. It may never translate for them due to ability, but they have all that in their minds later on.

 

[Tripod]

I guess being able to cycle makes a big difference

 

[Beef Invictus]

I also think that the bad players watch the game more. They're not on the ice in most key situations. They play fewer minutes in general. Especially if they actively want to get better, they're watching tendencies and how successful teams react to various things that occur on the ice. It may never translate for them due to ability, but they have all that in their minds later on.

Yeah, they need to have a better understanding of systems, everyone's roles, and fundamentals to make up for their relative lack of skill.

A lot of these guys begin coaching in their 20s, too. I think AV was 25 when he started. Trotz was in that neighborhood as well; same for Tortorella. So by the time these good players retire and start as coaches, they're a decade behind a lot of their peers.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Numerous teams faced similar hardships. Why weren't they slaughtered so severely?

Why was Laviolette able to have the Caps switched almost completely over to his system before the season started? It was a drastic shift, too. How come they did it and our coaches were too worthless to manage?

1. They didn’t receive the worst goaltending of any NHL team in the last quarter-century.

2. Maybe they didn’t get hit with Covid 2 weeks into an already shortened season, causing two weeks off the ice with no games or practices, & then an even more condensed schedule upon return, eliminating essentially all practice time.

3. Maybe they had more veterans who had better fundamentals etched in to fall back on and/or players who took better care of themselves in the off-season.

 

[Cody Webster]

I suspect not, but wouldn't that be wild

That would be one way to describe it.

We need an update

 

[ajgoal]

We need an update

I asked the driver to run over anyone they saw with a bad mustache wearing a bow tie and a newsie hat. No word on whether they have or not yet.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Yeah, they need to have a better understanding of systems, everyone's roles, and fundamentals to make up for their relative lack of skill.

A lot of these guys begin coaching in their 20s, too. I think AV was 25 when he started. Trotz was in that neighborhood as well; same for Tortorella. So by the time these good players retire and start as coaches, they're a decade behind a lot of their peers.

Paul Maurice (who was selected by the Flyers as Mr Irrelevant in 1985) is in his mid 50s and has been coaching in the nhl pretty much full time since the mid 90s.

 

[deadhead]

This is often true regardless of sport, with people citing these coaches having instincts and talent and understanding of the game that creates a barrier. We've got former Yotes players saying Gretzky would say shit like "Just go where the puck is going to be." That's not exactly helpful for players who aren't thoroughly elite.

I suspect another issue is that good players play for a long time. The bad players don't. While the good players are still players, the bad players have often already started learning how to coach, so the good players enter their coaching careers well behind in terms of experience.

It sounds goofy to say that Lappy was too good...but he kind of was. He was able to play until his mid 30s, and by that point most coaches have already been at it for a while. This is a hindrance to him as a coach.

It's simpler than that, a lot of talented players just "do it," and don't really understand the nuances of the game, they just see the puck open, but you can't teach that, or speed or change of direction. A guy like Braun will probably be a good coach, b/c his success depended on understanding the game, knowing angles and positioning, and the tendencies of opponents. That can be taught.

 

[Beef Invictus]

1. They didn’t receive the worst goaltending of any NHL team in the last quarter-century.

2. Maybe they didn’t get hit with Covid 2 weeks into an already shortened season, causing two weeks off the ice with no games or practices, & then an even more condensed schedule upon return, eliminating essentially all practice time.

3. Maybe they had more veterans who had better fundamentals etched in to fall back on and/or players who took better care of themselves in the off-season.

4. Maybe they have a better coaching staff.

 

[deadhead]

Lavi just got smoked in the 1st rd against a good but not great Bruins team.
He was coaching a Lavi favorite, old team full of experienced veterans:
Ovechkin (35), Backstrom (33), Oshie (34), Mantha (26), Kuznetsov (28), Wilson (26), Eller (31), Raffl (32), Dowd (30), Hagelin (32), Sheary (28), Hathaway (29), Sprong (23)
Carlson (31), Orlov (29), Schultz (30), Dillon (30), Jensen (30), Chara (43)

I mean how hard is it to coach a team with that much experience?

 

[Magua]

How the mighty have fallen

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

 

[BernieParent]

Usually you only get those high-octane elite offensive talents in the top several picks, if that. I think it's less about drafting philosophy than drafting location. Granted, I pushed hard for Barzal at #7, but it was pretty much guaranteed the Flyers were taking a D due to need, and I understood that.

I think you are minimizing the talent it takes to execute a passing/puck carrying game in the offensive zone in the NHL. Even skilled players like Konecny end up botching things more often than not when trying to get too fancy in the offensive zone. Bam -- turnover and odd-man rush the other way. Having even lesser skilled players try to play that game is a recipe for disaster. The NHL is a north-south game except for the rare few players who can play a puck control game 5 on 5.

I don't think what I am proposing is overly fancy, GB. I am not advocating them drawing up Harlem Globetrotter routines, but just players without the puck looking for soft spots among the D. How much easier to players make it to defend against them when they are standing still?

 

[TB87]

Meltzer with the trash takes (Re: McDavid). I’m so shocked

 

[landsbergfan]

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

I think one time he dreamt about becoming a pharmacist

Does Landsbergfan still post there? He probably hasn't since I joined here

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lavi just got smoked in the 1st rd against a good but not great Bruins team.
He was coaching a Lavi favorite, old team full of experienced veterans:
Ovechkin (35), Backstrom (33), Oshie (34), Mantha (26), Kuznetsov (28), Wilson (26), Eller (31), Raffl (32), Dowd (30), Hagelin (32), Sheary (28), Hathaway (29), Sprong (23)
Carlson (31), Orlov (29), Schultz (30), Dillon (30), Jensen (30), Chara (43)

I mean how hard is it to coach a team with that much experience?

Lavi's system is skating intensive. Especially for wingers who have to skate like centers. A lot of Washington's age is at wing. They looked totally gassed.

Lavi is a good match for the skillset of the Caps and it's easy to see why he is a good attempt at getting one more run or two out of that group, but he's a bad match for their age

Edit: you say it's a "Lavi Favorite" but his Canes winner was aged 29.2 and with the Flyers in 2010, 27.7. These Caps are 30.5. Well above league average age. Canes were a bit above average, Flyers right on average. Very slightly below, actually.

Doesn't check out that old teams are his "favorite."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh, and whatever demons Kuznetsov is dealing with are a major problem for them. They'll struggle to do anything without him at full potential.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

Just waiting for one more.

 

[DancingPanther]

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

Seeing Bill smack you down wasn't half as satisfying as this. Get f***ing wrecked, m8.

@VladDrag @landsbergfan @Mordecai

Lollll

 

[Beef Invictus]

This season's Caps are the oldest team Lavi has had, actually. Just looked through them all. Aside from one Nashville roster that was also in the low 29 range (And the Canes winner), most of his rosters have been 27/28. So yeah, I don't see how you can argue Washington is his ideal or favorite type.

 

[The Madrigal]

The systems between last year, the bubble, and this year were drastically different.

Conditioning wasnt a problem, either. There's just no level of conditioning that makes the way AV told them to play work.

Lol, it's like you didn't even watch or follow the team this season.