GDT: Minnows vs. Maple Leafs 7:30pm NBCSCA

[Pinkfloyd]

In all this talk about systems, one can’t conclude that what happened last night was drawn up during practice. It can’t be the system that Deboer is implementing.
What defense plans for giving up breakaways due to bad passes?
What team plans for turnovers that shouldn’t happen?

This is what I saw as the reason we lost. Turnovers.
I know these happen many times during the game but we were burned by a puck getting past the point man.
We were burned by a turnover right at a line change.

We were burned by turnovers all night long.

Turnovers can happen at bad times. I’ve committed many turnovers in my playing career and capitalized on them.
Toronto capitalized last night, much to our chagrin.

Turn the page and tie em up again and get out there.

Go Sharks!!

The system puts a lot of those players in the positions they are in to turn those pucks over.

 

[Alaskanice]

The system puts a lot of those players in the positions they are in to turn those pucks over.

I get your point.
It has something to do with what’s done on the ice but Kane turning the puck over isn’t a systemic breakdown.
Braun flubbing that keep in on the point isn’t a systemic breakdown.
Burns’ and Pavelski’s blatant turnovers are not systemic breakdowns.

The players made bad plays. It’s on them. Not the coaches.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I get your point.
It has something to do with what’s done on the ice but Kane turning the puck over isn’t a systemic breakdown.
Braun flubbing that keep in on the point isn’t a systemic breakdown.
Burns’ and Pavelski’s blatant turnovers are not systemic breakdowns.

The players made bad plays. It’s on them. Not the coaches.

But the system is putting those players in those positions and not accounting for covering for those players in case something goes wrong. Your system can't simply assume success in whatever you're doing. When there are so many odd-mans against, it's because the system is being implemented in a manner that is not having a forward get back to cover the d-man. That's what they've been doing. That's a system flaw. Yeah the players still have to execute but players are going to fail to execute on occasion which is why you have forwards cover for pinching d-men.

 

[Alaskanice]

But the system is putting those players in those positions and not accounting for covering for those players in case something goes wrong. Your system can't simply assume success in whatever you're doing. When there are so many odd-mans against, it's because the system is being implemented in a manner that is not having a forward get back to cover the d-man. That's what they've been doing. That's a system flaw. Yeah the players still have to execute but players are going to fail to execute on occasion which is why you have forwards cover for pinching d-men.

You’ve played this game. You’ve been on the side of the Sharks before. You’ve been on the side of the Leafs before.
Sometimes things don’t go as planned.
A goal against because Kane made a turnover that went behind him 25 feet, right into a Toronto player isn’t a system flaw.
You can’t call it a flaw when Braun didn’t keep in a very easy keep in and Toronto scores.
Pavelski passed the puck right onto their sticks twice on the same power play. While he was on the point, where he had control.
That’s 2 goals. Both situations were on our players stick. That’s just stuff that happens because this game is so fast.

Our same system has us in first place in the Pacific.
That may not mean much to you but to me, we’re in first place.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

You’ve played this game. You’ve been on the side of the Sharks before. You’ve been on the side of the Leafs before.
Sometimes things don’t go as planned.
A goal against because Kane made a turnover that went behind him 25 feet, right into a Toronto player isn’t a system flaw.
You can’t call it a flaw when Braun didn’t keep in a very easy keep in and Toronto scores.
Pavelski passed the puck right onto their sticks twice on the same power play. While he was on the point, where he had control.
That’s 2 goals. Both situations were on our players stick. That’s just stuff that happens because this game is so fast.

Our same system has us in first place in the Pacific.
That may not mean much to you but to me, we’re in first place.

Individuals will make mistakes irrespective of the system you play. If we end up pointing out individuals who make D mistakes through a game you will end up blaming most of the team.

What we need to do is play a system which helps us recover from these mistakes. Last game was not an outlier. Its been how most of our games have gone this season. We end up giving up too many odd-man rushes a game. If you think that is all on individuals and nothing to do with the system then maybe we need to just rebuild the entire team by scratch and replace all the players.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

But the system is putting those players in those positions and not accounting for covering for those players in case something goes wrong. Your system can't simply assume success in whatever you're doing. When there are so many odd-mans against, it's because the system is being implemented in a manner that is not having a forward get back to cover the d-man. That's what they've been doing. That's a system flaw. Yeah the players still have to execute but players are going to fail to execute on occasion which is why you have forwards cover for pinching d-men.

Totally agree. Its all about supporting the puck. Last man back shouldn't be in a position where a mistake turns into a great chance for the other team. Pucks hop over stick all the time, passes aren't handled cleanly. There should be a teammate there to support when disaster strikes.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You’ve played this game. You’ve been on the side of the Sharks before. You’ve been on the side of the Leafs before.
Sometimes things don’t go as planned.
A goal against because Kane made a turnover that went behind him 25 feet, right into a Toronto player isn’t a system flaw.
You can’t call it a flaw when Braun didn’t keep in a very easy keep in and Toronto scores.
Pavelski passed the puck right onto their sticks twice on the same power play. While he was on the point, where he had control.
That’s 2 goals. Both situations were on our players stick. That’s just stuff that happens because this game is so fast.

Our same system has us in first place in the Pacific.
That may not mean much to you but to me, we’re in first place.

Kane's error was all him. He should have dumped it in instead of trying to juke the defender there. He put his team at risk with a low percentage play. One play that should have never gone in was the very first goal. WTF was jones doing there? No way that should have gone 5 hole.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You’ve played this game. You’ve been on the side of the Sharks before. You’ve been on the side of the Leafs before.
Sometimes things don’t go as planned.
A goal against because Kane made a turnover that went behind him 25 feet, right into a Toronto player isn’t a system flaw.
You can’t call it a flaw when Braun didn’t keep in a very easy keep in and Toronto scores.
Pavelski passed the puck right onto their sticks twice on the same power play. While he was on the point, where he had control.
That’s 2 goals. Both situations were on our players stick. That’s just stuff that happens because this game is so fast.

Our same system has us in first place in the Pacific.
That may not mean much to you but to me, we’re in first place.

Of course sometimes things don't go as planned. That's stating the obvious and not making a real point. The Kane thing is a system flaw. Why? Braun doesn't need to make that up pass and Kane didn't need to try and pull it back to make a move at their blue line when he could've easily just chipped it in. The Pavelski turnover that directly led to a goal against is a system thing because that's a play they always try to make in that spot and Marner anticipated it because it's a system play. It's a system flaw to have Burns on the halfwall with no forward up high to cover for him. It's always a system issue when you let guys behind you for breakaways and it happened a lot last night.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kane's error was all him. He should have dumped it in instead of trying to juke the defender there. He put his team at risk with a low percentage play. One play that should have never gone in was the very first goal. WTF was jones doing there? No way that should have gone 5 hole.

He's thinking the puck is going through the top of the crease so he's pushing across. That's why the 5-hole opens up. That's just bad luck. That happens all the time.

 

[Alaskanice]

System. Players.
It’s really all the same thing. Our discussion has made that clear. You see it one way, I see it another, we’re both correct.
No one player or coach is accountable.
We win some, we lose some.
As Ariana Grande sang, next!

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

He's thinking the puck is going through the top of the crease so he's pushing across. That's why the 5-hole opens up. That's just bad luck. That happens all the time.

Watching the replay I think his stick was out of position. It does happen all the time and those rarely go in.

 

[Alaskanice]

Kane's error was all him. He should have dumped it in instead of trying to juke the defender there. He put his team at risk with a low percentage play. One play that should have never gone in was the very first goal. WTF was jones doing there? No way that should have gone 5 hole.

It was a centering pass that deflected off of Vlasics foot.

 

[Lebanezer]

The biggest flaw with the system in my eyes is that the Sharks work very hard for their chances, puck retrieval, cycles, point shots, etc. The teams they play against don't have to earn their chances because the Sharks make such egregious mistakes with turnovers or coverage that they lead to high danger chances left and right. The other team isn't constantly in the Sharks' end cycling away, they're opportunistic, and the opportunities are great. It's like a reverse rope a dope, Sharks work super hard to get their chance, but whenever they make a mistake, the other team has an easy time taking advantage because the Sharks' 5 man unit blew through all their energy trying to create that one chance. The Sharks also play a game with little to no patience, it's so high tempo that they force plays, and they force them at the worst possible times and locations. So many attempted shots from the point for tips or goals, when those fail, the entire structure of their offense fails. Then a dman makes an ill advised pinch, 3 forwards are down low trying to recover the puck, or just locate it, next thing you know it's a 2 on 1 going the other way.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It was a centering pass that deflected off of Vlasics foot.

His stick wasn't down. Rec league goalies make this mistake constantly. I think he's in a rut. Wondering... is this what we get with Nabby coaching the goalies? More soft Nabby like GAA?

 

[Used As A Shield]

And blind back passes, why, WHYYYY.

 

[Alaskanice]

His stick wasn't down. Rec league goalies make this mistake constantly. I think he's in a rut. Wondering... is this what we get with Nabby coaching the goalies? More soft Nabby like GAA?

I can say this, way back when, when I played goaltender; when you get down on the butterfly the stick comes up with your arm to fill the space up top.

 

[Alaskanice]

And blind back passes, why, WHYYYY.

Agreed. It works for Getzlaf all the time. Why not us?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Watching the replay I think his stick was out of position. It does happen all the time and those rarely go in.

Yeah his stick is out of position but that's pretty common for goalies when the puck is going behind the net like it was but those types of deflections go in on goalies pretty often.

 

[WSS11]

And blind back passes, why, WHYYYY.

Huge pet peeve, Such a stupid obsession with this team. I’d rather go back to when we played boring, defensively sound, more conservative hockey and had a record of 27-2-1 when leading after two periods than this run and gun clusterf*** that we clearly aren’t equipped for.

 

[SabresSharks]

"The system" didn't fail last night. That shit show was entirely on the players.

 

[WSS11]

"The system" didn't fail last night. That **** show was entirely on the players.

Really? What about the rest of the season where we’re giving up breakaways and odd man rushes like Halloween candy? We’re playing high risk hockey and it’s biting us in the ass against faster teams like Toronto. We don’t have the horses to play this style of hockey and that’s on the coaching staff to adjust.

 

[Coily]

"The system" didn't fail last night. That **** show was entirely on the players.

Going to disagree.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

"The system" didn't fail last night. That **** show was entirely on the players.

Its always easy to blame the players because when individuals make mistakes they are easy to spot. But for most of the part the individuals have been in poor positions because of the style/system they have been asked to play.

When we win the system works. When we lose, its the players.

 

[hockeyball]

Its always easy to blame the players because when individuals make mistakes they are easy to spot. But for most of the part the individuals have been in poor positions because of the style/system they have been asked to play.

When we win the system works. When we lose, its the players.

More so the system covers up for the inevitable mistakes players will make. Even Crosby makes mistakes out there, but if the system is well designed the impact of those mistakes are minimized. Our system right now is exacerbating those mistakes and turning them into goals against regularly.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

DeBoer actually sent Badrow out to go after Kadri at the start of the game... If you’re going to send someone out to fight someone for some minor stuff from a year ago knowing he’s probably just going to turtle and draw a penalty for it... why Badrow lol....cripes...


Sure showed them not to mess with us lol...