GDT: Minnows vs. Maple Leafs 7:30pm NBCSCA

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Toronto was missing Auston Matthews. There are no excuses to be made.

Oh great, now Leafs fans are in here liking my posts.

Congrats guys, Toronto is still a pretty good team without Auston Matthews. After all, Auston Matthews was missing for the entire Boston series, and they still took Boston to 7. But they lost.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I asked this last game or maybe a couple games ago and don't recall getting an answer. I forgot if it was you and I who had this discussion or someone else and myself, but do we know that DeBoer is definitely a free agent after this year and a lame duck head coach as of right now? We may not have even heard if he was extended (not that this means he can't be fired) and here's another thing.

DeBoer got a 4 year deal from the Sharks when he was signed 3 years ago. That much was made public and I'm sure if someone wants to look it up, the initial articles will confirm this. But he also had one more year left on his contract with the Devils when he was fired. His contract with the Devils ran until the end of 2015-2016, which was his first year here.

So my question is for his 4 year deal, did that include his last year with the Devils + 3 more years here? Or was that 4 years here + his last remaining year with the Devils, which would be 5 years in total, thus not making him a free agent/expiring contract until after the 2019-2020 season? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Sadly, I think this team's window closes after this year.

I think it was already closed at the conclusion of 2016-2017, but it opened back up with the Karlsson trade. Pavelski is UFA after this year, Karlsson may or may not be extended, Thornton probably has one more year left after this at the very most? I doubt he plays past 19-20. If he does, he may not be as useful anymore.

This team’s window should not close any time soon. As long as they have Hertl-Couture-Meier and both Burns and Karlsson, the team has the blueprint to be a contender.

 

[WSS11]

I asked this last game or maybe a couple games ago and don't recall getting an answer. I forgot if it was you and I who had this discussion or someone else and myself, but do we know that DeBoer is definitely a free agent after this year and a lame duck head coach as of right now? We may not have even heard if he was extended (not that this means he can't be fired) and here's another thing.

DeBoer got a 4 year deal from the Sharks when he was signed 3 years ago. That much was made public and I'm sure if someone wants to look it up, the initial articles will confirm this. But he also had one more year left on his contract with the Devils when he was fired. His contract with the Devils ran until the end of 2015-2016, which was his first year here.

So my question is for his 4 year deal, did that include his last year with the Devils + 3 more years here? Or was that 4 years here + his last remaining year with the Devils, which would be 5 years in total, thus not making him a free agent/expiring contract until after the 2019-2020 season? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Sadly, I think this team's window closes after this year.

I think it was already closed at the conclusion of 2016-2017, but it opened back up with the Karlsson trade. Pavelski is UFA after this year, Karlsson may or may not be extended, Thornton probably has one more year left after this at the very most? I doubt he plays past 19-20. If he does, he may not be as useful anymore.

Wasn’t me but he may have another year. Hopefully it gets bought out if it’s there

 

[Negatively Positive]

I remember how proud Deboer was that he was able to mimic Vegas' system. When are we going to get a coach that can make his own system that doesn't suck?

Did Pete get the memo that the Vegas system requires PEDs? Look at what Vegas is doing now that Schmidt got busted for PEDs.

 

[Jaleel619]

On the opening faceoff, he had it right until he went out of his way to rough him up. Only part I didn't like about the game, its still just a regular season game.

But I've never seen that before, and I think its more of a statement we aren't content with 2016 and were going to be answer the bell and or be the one ringing it. So hopefully next time id like to see that message sent without going too far, so I like the angle except don't make it the main theme.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Not sure if this is coaching or players but there were so many times I saw not one, but two Leafs skaters standing in the neutral zone waiting for and receiving passes leading to really good scoring chances.

Like @Pinkfloyd said earlier we are playing an aggressive style of hockey. Its exposing our goalie to chances and he has obviously not been the best goalie against those.

I remember a few years back when we used to play a D first style of hockey the games were a lot more boring but yielded better results. This year has no doubt been more exciting and high scoring but the results have not been consistent. We need to go back to the boring D first style and try to push the play by quick short passes to force our offense.

Not sure how patient DW is going to be to see if PDB can sort this out but if we are playing sloppy D by mid-season, I am going to be concerned. People were blaming EK65 for our D problems but he is far from the issue.

I remember how proud Deboer was that he was able to mimic Vegas' system. When are we going to get a coach that can make his own system that doesn't suck?

I made that thread in the off-season about the system change and what it did to the team, and I still stand by my assessment that it made us worse.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Did Pete get the memo that the Vegas system requires PEDs? Look at what Vegas is doing now that Schmidt got busted for PEDs.

The team became notably worse when they adopted the system. Brent Burns just came back to earth from the hell that he was in and their on-ice shooting percentage exploded, which made people think that we suddenly turned into this elite offensive team. We didn’t. We became a worse team that won a slightly higher percentage of our games because our on-ice shooting percentage regressed to the mean and our best player started playing at a high level again.

 

[Lebanezer]

The Minnows nickname is dead. It was foiled by foliage.

 

[slocal]

The Minnows nickname is dead. It was foiled by foliage.

 

[mooncalf]

The team became notably worse when they adopted the system. Brent Burns just came back to earth from the hell that he was in and their on-ice shooting percentage exploded, which made people think that we suddenly turned into this elite offensive team. We didn’t. We became a worse team that won a slightly higher percentage of our games because our on-ice shooting percentage regressed to the mean and our best player started playing at a high level again.

I don't know. It's possible that you're right, but that defensive style of play was excruciating to watch.

 

[Alwalys]

The team became notably worse when they adopted the system. Brent Burns just came back to earth from the hell that he was in and their on-ice shooting percentage exploded, which made people think that we suddenly turned into this elite offensive team. We didn’t. We became a worse team that won a slightly higher percentage of our games because our on-ice shooting percentage regressed to the mean and our best player started playing at a high level again.

by what metrics though? the focus on transition should lower the possession numbers but they still remain high. the problem with their execution of the system is their impatience with plays that are way too risky to attempt. if it's not there, you just make the right play and live to fight another day. burns in particular just tries way too many bad gambles.

 

[Bleedred]

This team’s window should not close any time soon. As long as they have Hertl-Couture-Meier and both Burns and Karlsson, the team has the blueprint to be a contender.

With Karlsson then I agree. Without Karlsson and Pavelski possibly being gone after this year and not many more years left of Thornton, I don't see it as a contender.

But it won't be in rebuild mode either, thanks to Meier and Hertl, as well as a few others and Couture being only 30 next year. I think it will still be a playoff team like it was last year, but not quite a cup contender after this year, Karlsson situation pending. Re-signing Karlsson and Pavelski taking a one-two year deal might make it a cup contender again next season though. Especially with one more year of Thornton and a still good Thornton after this, but the best bet is to go for it now. This year.

In the end though, I'm so glad that floater Boedker was taken off our hands by a really stupid management/ownership group up in Ottawa. That helps with cap space after this year.

 

[LA Shark]

I don't know. It's possible that you're right, but that defensive style of play was excruciating to watch.

Watching all those breakaways tonight was pretty excruciating to watch as well...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't know. It's possible that you're right, but that defensive style of play was excruciating to watch.

You know what was excruciating to watch? Losing to f***ing Toronto. And before our system change, we beat them in regulation.

 

[RickyHP]

Did Pete get the memo that the Vegas system requires PEDs? Look at what Vegas is doing now that Schmidt got busted for PEDs.

At this point, i think the sharks should hop on the PED train

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

by what metrics though? the focus on transition should lower the possession numbers but they still remain high. the problem with their execution of the system is their impatience with plays that are way too risky to attempt. if it's not there, you just make the right play and live to fight another day. burns in particular just tries way too many bad gambles.

How about goals against? That's a real simple one. I like that one.

The Sharks rank 2nd worst in 5v5 goals against in the 79 games played since the system change. Their 5v5 sv% in the 79 games played is dead last in the NHL over that time frame as well. Given that the SV% of both of their goaltenders has fallen off a cliff since that system change, I believe that the system change has more to do with this than each goaltender, at the ages of 27-29, suddenly falling off a cliff.

The new system hangs the goaltenders out to dry. It may have an improvement on on-ice shooting percentage as well, but in the long term, it will hurts on-ice save percentage more than on-ice shooting percentage. It also hurts our on-ice shot and chance based metrics as well, which is very important. It was a major f***ing failure and people are massively overstating how "boring" the old system was. It was the same system that we used in 2015-2016 when we ranked 3rd in the NHL in 5v5 xGA/60 and 8th in GA/60 and made the finals. This system has us 12th worst in 5v5 xGA/60 and 2nd worst, behind only Ottawa, in 5v5 GA/60.

 

[Alwalys]

How about goals against? That's a real simple one. I like that one.

The Sharks rank 2nd worst in 5v5 goals against in the 79 games played since the system change. Their 5v5 sv% in the 79 games played is dead last in the NHL over that time frame as well. Given that the SV% of both of their goaltenders has fallen off a cliff since that system change, I believe that the system change has more to do with this than each goaltender, at the ages of 27-29, suddenly falling off a cliff.

The new system hangs the goaltenders out to dry. It may have an improvement on on-ice shooting percentage as well, but in the long term, it will hurts on-ice save percentage more than on-ice shooting percentage. It also hurts our on-ice shot and chance based metrics as well, which is very important. It was a major ****ing failure and people are massively overstating how "boring" the old system was. It was the same system that we used in 2015-2016 when we ranked 3rd in the NHL in 5v5 xGA/60 and 8th in GA/60 and made the finals. This system has us 12th worst in 5v5 xGA/60 and 2nd worst, behind only Ottawa, in 5v5 GA/60.

It's really hard to quantify this by the eye test though, especially this season. Jones has been just abysmal, other goalies get hung out to dry as well, heck we break down defenses better than most teams but their goalies make the save. Jones is just sucking it up so far, play your way out of the league level. Then we have our superstar stud defenseman making god awful reads and fatal pinches that career minor leaguers don't make.

Aren't other teams having success with variants on this system? Do we just not have the right personnel for this system?

Or is it all just smoke and mirrors because some superstars had a few great playoffs?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You've had this ready and waiting didn't you...

 

[one2gamble]

It's really hard to quantify this by the eye test though, especially this season. Jones has been just abysmal, other goalies get hung out to dry as well, heck we break down defenses better than most teams but their goalies make the save. Jones is just sucking it up so far, play your way out of the league level.

Jones isnt athletic enough to play this way.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Too many odd mans and breakaways against. Too many zone breakdowns, too.

The team needs to get that shit figured out. It may be time for a new face/message on the bench...

 

[hohosaregood]

Too many odd mans and breakaways against. Too many zone breakdowns, too.

The team needs to get that **** figured out. It may be time for a new face/message on the bench...

Yea, I know Brodie and Curtis were trying to shifting blame away from Jones during the intermission by talking down the defensive play. But by doing that, it's basically saying the team's defensive structure is bad and that's almost solely on the coaches when the defense is bad regardless of personnel on the ice.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Yea, I know Brodie and Curtis were trying to shifting blame away from Jones during the intermission by talking down the defensive play. But by doing that, it's basically saying the team's defensive structure is bad and that's almost solely on the coaches when the defense is bad regardless of personnel on the ice.

The roster definitely isn't the issue here. Guys don't look comfortable out there and we're now 1/4 of the season through. If they struggle through the last 3 games of this homestand then a change has to happen.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yea, I know Brodie and Curtis were trying to shifting blame away from Jones during the intermission by talking down the defensive play. But by doing that, it's basically saying the team's defensive structure is bad and that's almost solely on the coaches when the defense is bad regardless of personnel on the ice.

Ha ha. I know. Its actually funny trying to see them scramble trying to find a way to not blame anyone. Though Curtis was definitely a lot more honest in the post-game show. Pick your poison guys. Either blame the goalie or blame the D structure ..

 

[Alaskanice]

In all this talk about systems, one can’t conclude that what happened last night was drawn up during practice. It can’t be the system that Deboer is implementing.
What defense plans for giving up breakaways due to bad passes?
What team plans for turnovers that shouldn’t happen?

This is what I saw as the reason we lost. Turnovers.
I know these happen many times during the game but we were burned by a puck getting past the point man.
We were burned by a turnover right at a line change.

We were burned by turnovers all night long.

Turnovers can happen at bad times. I’ve committed many turnovers in my playing career and capitalized on them.
Toronto capitalized last night, much to our chagrin.

Turn the page and tie em up again and get out there.

Go Sharks!!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ha ha. I know. Its actually funny trying to see them scramble trying to find a way to not blame anyone. Though Curtis was definitely a lot more honest in the post-game show. Pick your poison guys. Either blame the goalie or blame the D structure ..

I'm totally on the blame the D structure side. I've never seen a Sharks team under DW give up this many chances on such a regular basis. I think they need to move away from having their first instinct be to throw it to the point. I get that it was successful and to an extent still is but it shouldn't be the first option down low because if you turn that over, you're likely feeding the transition the other way and that's what has been killing this team. They need to nip the other team's transition game in the bud by not turning it over in spots where they don't have the numbers advantage defensively.