Value of: Minnesota's Abundance of LWers (to your team)

[Doogle]

Kessel for Zucker?

 

[AKL]

Kessel for Zucker?

Straight up? Yeah, but I wouldn’t add anything else of great value to get it done.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not a chance.



A little bit concerning that Buffalo has no secondary scoring to speak of and Nylander still isn't getting a shot. 31 points in 49 games in the AHL doesn't exactly scream NHL scorer either.

Tuch only had 37 in 57 in his 20/21 year old season.

 

[Doogle]

Straight up? Yeah, but I wouldn’t add anything else of great value to get it done.

Yeah others might disagree but I think it's fair. Pens get 3 years younger and a million in cap savings for a slight decrease in production. The Wild get a righty and increased production. The reason Pittsburgh does it is to get a winger who might gel better with Geno, and play a more rounded game. Minnesota needs some flavor; they're known as a boring team and Kessel is anything but.

 

[57special]

The main thing about Kessel for Zucker from MN's perspective is that Kessel is a RW.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

The main thing about Kessel for Zucker from MN's perspective is that Kessel is a RW.

right handed right wing*

 

[AKL]

Tuch only had 37 in 57 in his 20/21 year old season.

Tuch was also younger and in his first season in the AHL. Nylander is in his third and has shown little improvement. Soft, one dimensional, and isn’t even proving himself that adept at that one dimension.

And Tuch’s season was still technically better than Nylander’s.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Tuch was also younger and in his first season in the AHL. Nylander is in his third and has shown little improvement. Soft, one dimensional, and isn’t even proving himself that adept at that one dimension.

He wasn't younger in any meaningful way. They both turned 21 in the spring of their respective years.

Being in his 3rd year doesn't mean a whole lot. Tuch got to play against college-aged players prior to his arrival at age 20; Nylander was playing against teenagers prior to his arrival at 18. The first 2 years aren't comparable.

 

[AKL]

He wasn't younger in any meaningful way. They both turned 21 in the spring of their respective years.

Being in his 3rd year doesn't mean a whole lot. Tuch got to play against college-aged players prior to his arrival at age 20; Nylander was playing against teenagers prior to his arrival at 18. The first 2 years aren't comparable.

2 extra years in the league means he had 2 extra years to play and practice with and against better players. 2 extra years to learn the league and develop.

I mean Tuch also played against teenagers prior to turning 18. And Nylander was playing men for two years prior to turning 20. What exactly is your point there?

Did you really bring up Alex Tuch just to essentially tell me a post later that he’s not a good comparison? I mean do you want to just start comparing AHL seasons of any random players to Nylanders? Then you can tell me how none of the actual context matters with all of them?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

2 extra years in the league means he had 2 extra years to play and practice with and against better players. 2 extra years to learn the league and develop.

I mean Tuch also played against teenagers prior to turning 18. And Nylander was playing men for two years prior to turning 20. What exactly is your point there?

Did you really bring up Alex Tuch just to essentially tell me a post later that he’s not a good comparison? I mean do you want to just start comparing AHL seasons of any random players to Nylanders? Then you can tell me how none of the actual context matters with all of them?

I'm just comparing 2 guys at the same age at the same level of competition. You brought up the 1st vs. 3rd season thing.

I really believe that if Nylander spent the two years prior to this year whipping up on the CHL, his numbers this year would be looked at a lot more favorably.

 

[AKL]

I'm just comparing 2 guys at the same age at the same level of competition. You brought up the 1st vs. 3rd season thing.

Yeah because it’s context

I really believe that if Nylander spent the two years prior to this year whipping up on the CHL, his numbers this year would be looked at a lot more favorably.

But he didn’t, so...

If you really want to do this, Joel Eriksson Ek is a point per game in the AHL.
Mikael Granlund put up 28 in 29 at that age.
Jaden Schwartz scored 19 in 33, Brock Nelson 52 in 66, Zucker 50 in 55, Gallagher 20 in 36.

Did we actually learn anything by comparing those stat lines at that age or did we just say a bunch of numbers? Who knows.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah because it’s context



But he didn’t, so...

If you really want to do this, Joel Eriksson Ek is a point per game in the AHL.
Mikael Granlund put up 28 in 29 at that age.
Jaden Schwartz scored 19 in 33, Brock Nelson 52 in 66, Zucker 50 in 55, Gallagher 20 in 36.

Did we actually learn anything by comparing those stat lines at that age or did we just say a bunch of numbers? Who knows.

Well, you listed off a whole lot of NHL players, some of them pretty darn good, which is what we would want Nylander to be.

 

[AKL]

Well, you listed off a whole lot of NHL players, some of them pretty darn good, which is what we would want Nylander to be.

Charles Hudon scored 57 points in the AHL.
Cory Conacher scored 80 points in 75 games.
Peter Holland scored 60 in 71.
Casey Cizikas scored 45 in 52.

Those are all better than Nylanders 31. Should we go get those four and hope they become pretty darn good NHL players? After all, comparing their production to Nylanders, they look to be better than him right?

 

[Jozay]

Leafs have a lot of RW and are weak at LW plus we have Bracco, who is a RW that still needs to come up. He's over a ppg in the ahl, so I imagine he'll be able to get a spot on the big team next year.

Maybe a kapanen for someone swap could happen. No idea how Wild fans would value kapanen. He needs a new contract after this year (he's RFA).

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Leafs have a lot of RW and are weak at LW plus we have Bracco, who is a RW that still needs to come up. He's over a ppg in the ahl, so I imagine he'll be able to get a spot on the big team next year.

Maybe a kapanen for someone swap could happen. No idea how Wild fans would value kapanen. He needs a new contract after this year (he's RFA).

id take him + a 2nd for zucker.

 

[Jozay]

id take him + a 2nd for zucker.

Leafs will have to be salary conscious. Dont think they could do that deal.

I dont really think theres any value that lines up with those guys on the list. Fiala is the only guy I'd really consider trading him for, but I doubt Wild fans would like that.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Charles Hudon scored 57 points in the AHL.
Cory Conacher scored 80 points in 75 games.
Peter Holland scored 60 in 71.
Casey Cizikas scored 45 in 52.

Those are all better than Nylanders 31. Should we go get those four and hope they become pretty darn good NHL players? After all, comparing their production to Nylanders, they look to be better than him right?

Funny, you're making all of these arguments that AHL stats don't matter, yet you originally used them to show that Nylander "doesn't seem like much of a scorer". All I did was give you a guy that seemed to fly in the face of that, and I'm pretty sure I can give you bunch more, just like you can give me a bunch of nobodies with good AHL stats. The point is that we don't really know, and neither of us a watching Buffalo Sabres AHL hockey.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What's the price for Greenway and Zucker? The Oilers could use both.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

What's the price for Greenway and Zucker? The Oilers could use both.

greenway shouldnt be traded so a hefty price. for zucker we would want a right shot top 6 wing/prospect or a 1st. add to the 1st depending where it is considering i doubt you would trade him for 8oa

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Leafs will have to be salary conscious. Dont think they could do that deal.

I dont really think theres any value that lines up with those guys on the list. Fiala is the only guy I'd really consider trading him for, but I doubt Wild fans would like that.

wouldnt wanna give up on fiala already no. could retain some salary possibly to make it work or possibly add spurgeon/brodin and you add from your side.

 

[AKL]

Funny, you're making all of these arguments that AHL stats don't matter, yet you originally used them to show that Nylander "doesn't seem like much of a scorer". All I did was give you a guy that seemed to fly in the face of that, and I'm pretty sure I can give you bunch more, just like you can give me a bunch of nobodies with good AHL stats. The point is that we don't really know, and neither of us a watching Buffalo Sabres AHL hockey.

I’m making the argument that comparing two different players at a single point in time is silly, not that AHL stats are entirely useless. As with all things, context matters, and of course no player is the same. I listed multiple reasons why I don’t think he’s going to be an effective NHL player. You chose to pick out one and make dumb arguments about it.

If your whole point is “none of us know so we can’t speculate,” then I have no idea why you’re on these boards.

At this point I’m sure you’re just looking for any opportunity to start an argument because you’re still upset about your upbringing or something.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I’m making the argument that comparing two different players at a single point in time is silly, not that AHL stats are entirely useless. As with all things, context matters, and of course no player is the same. I listed multiple reasons why I don’t think he’s going to be an effective NHL player. You chose to pick out one and make dumb arguments about it.

If your whole point is “none of us know so we can’t speculate,” then I have no idea why you’re on these boards.

At this point I’m sure you’re just looking for any opportunity to start an argument because you’re still upset about your upbringing or something.

My point is that his stats aren't telling you/us what you think they are; that they aren't telling us that he's "not going to be much of a scorer at the NHL level" and that you have no idea about whether he's "soft" or "one dimensional". Those are just keywords you probably leeched off of somebody else's opinion because it suits your narrative.

 

[AKL]

My point is that his stats aren't telling you/us what you think they are; that they aren't telling us that he's "not going to be much of a scorer at the NHL level" and that you have no idea about whether he's "soft" or "one dimensional". Those are just keywords you probably leeched off of somebody else's opinion because it suits your narrative.

His stats are telling me that he isn’t doing a great job of scoring in the AHL right now.

Not even going to argue the soft and one dimensional thing. Pretty sure you’re just being contrarian at this point just for the sake of arguing.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

His stats are telling me that he isn’t doing a great job of scoring in the AHL right now.

Not even going to argue the soft and one dimensional thing. Pretty sure you’re just being contrarian at this point just for the sake of arguing.

No, just not pretending to know more than I do.

 

[AKL]

No, just not pretending to know more than I do.

You seem to be pretending to know more about what I know than you really do