Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIV

[HotDish]

with Detroit not in the fight right now. could we possibly entice them with some 1sts to pry Larkin away?

It is going to take a lot to get him and I think Detroit has him in their long term plans. Plus isn't he their captain? I always thought he was the favorite to get that title.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

It is going to take a lot to get him and I think Detroit has him in their long term plans. Plus isn't he their captain? I always thought he was the favorite to get that title.

He is their captain I believe. But everyone had a price. I’m picking him because he is slightly older at 24 and they are not in win now mode so his peak years might be on the decline once they are cup ready.

 

[GuerinUp]

He is their captain I believe. But everyone had a price. I’m picking him because he is slightly older at 24 and they are not in win now mode so his peak years might be on the decline once they are cup ready.

The problem with trading for larkin is his contract ends in 2 years if i remember correctly, which may make things difficult. Much like PLD

 

[DeagleJenkins]

The problem with trading for larkin is his contract ends in 2 years if i remember correctly, which may make things difficult. Much like PLD

Make him happy with a proper first line and winning team and maybe he stays and begs for an extension? We can’t always worry about them not wanting to stay. We need to assemble a team that everyone wants to be apart of.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The problem with trading for larkin is his contract ends in 2 years if i remember correctly, which may make things difficult. Much like PLD

3 years from now.

 

[57special]

If you were Detroit, would you trade Larkin? Of course not.

 

[GuerinUp]

Make him happy with a proper first line and winning team and maybe he stays and begs for an extension? We can’t always worry about them not wanting to stay. We need to assemble a team that everyone wants to be apart of.

Its not him staying that worries me, its the contracts needing to be extended around the same time. Otherwise i like the guy from a skill standpoint.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

If you were Detroit, would you trade Larkin? Of course not.

if i was Detroit and got offered the right price i would. They are not challenging now and it may take them to the end of his contract before they start. i would think long and hard about a futures deal while his price is high.

Its not him staying that worries me, its the contracts needing to be extended around the same time. Otherwise i like the guy from a skill standpoint.

that is understandable and something that would have to be figured out, but they could possibly make some deals like barzal where its light in the front and heavy in the back.

 

[thestonedkoala]

He is their captain I believe. But everyone had a price. I’m picking him because he is slightly older at 24 and they are not in win now mode so his peak years might be on the decline once they are cup ready.

Detroit is closer to finishing their rebuild; they have had 4 picks in the top 10 at the moment, and I'd expect them to start building toward a playoff push in a year or two. While they aren't in a win now mode, they will need guys like Larkin to mix with their young guys.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Detroit is closer to finishing their rebuild; they have had 4 picks in the top 10 at the moment, and I'd expect them to start building toward a playoff push in a year or two. While they aren't in a win now mode, they will need guys like Larkin to mix with their young guys.

i dont dispute it as i know they are building. i think they are further than a year out though and as pointed out his contract is 3 years more. at 27 are they going to pay him well? i would assume so but we do not know.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

i dont dispute it as i know they are building. i think they are further than a year out though and as pointed out his contract is 3 years more. at 27 are they going to pay him well? i would assume so but we do not know.

Yeah, they most likely are.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Yeah, they most likely are.

as i said. i believe they will. i just think its worth a call towards them as they are currently set up for a few years from now and not right now. i dont think we can match a trade for dubois even though i really hope we are in talks with them about him and in the running.

 

[thestonedkoala]

i dont dispute it as i know they are building. i think they are further than a year out though and as pointed out his contract is 3 years more. at 27 are they going to pay him well? i would assume so but we do not know.

You may think they are further out than a year, but who knows what their management thinks. They missed the playoffs 4 years in a row.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

You may think they are further out than a year, but who knows what their management thinks. They missed the playoffs 4 years in a row.

you are correct.

 

[2Pair]

You could probably get Larkin out of Detroit, but the price is going to be the same as Dubois. Start with Rossi and your 1st round pick, fill in with secondary pieces as needed

 

[DeagleJenkins]

You could probably get Larkin out of Detroit, but the price is going to be the same as Dubois. Start with Rossi and your 1st round pick, fill in with secondary pieces as needed

and the question is, is that worth it? the speed a line of Kap - Larkin - Fiala would have is insane.

 

[2Pair]

and the question is, is that worth it? the speed a line of Kap - Larkin - Fiala would have is insane.

Depends on what you think Rossi will become.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Depends on what you think Rossi will become.

indeed. Faith, in Rossi vs a proven Larkin. that is the question.

 

[GuerinUp]

foligno just signed a 3 yr extension

 

[57special]

So our top forward prospects- MiG, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Haula- from approx. 10 years ago are all now gone. Almost all of them flirted with elite play, but ultimately all of them have failed to deliver difference making top 6 play consistently. I think we hoped for more out of at least two of them.

The "next ones" from about 5 tears ago were Tuch, Kunin, Greenway, Kaprizov, Fiala, and JEE. Tuch and Kunin are already gone, leaving the others. I like JEE and Greenway, but as of now I have a hard time seeing anything resembling top line skill from them, or anything more than them being 2nd line support players doing the dirty work. It's way too early to say about KK, but there is a possibility that he might have first line skill- probably top 6 skill. Fiala showed he had elite top line skill for half a year last year, and has to show us this year that he is capable of doing it consistently.

Our latest prospect group of top forwards is Boldy, Rossi, Beckman, Khovanov, and let's say a player or two from the 1st round of the 2021 draft(forwards only).

My question is this. What is likely to be the most impressive grouping when their careers are said and done? Remember, Nino, and Coyle both had 50 point season, Zucker and MiG 60 point seasons.

 

[BagHead]

So our top forward prospects- MiG, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Haula- from approx. 10 years ago are all now gone. Almost all of them flirted with elite play, but ultimately all of them have failed to deliver difference making top 6 play consistently. I think we hoped for more out of at least two of them.

The "next ones" from about 5 tears ago were Tuch, Kunin, Greenway, Kaprizov, Fiala, and JEE. Tuch and Kunin are already gone, leaving the others. I like JEE and Greenway, but as of now I have a hard time seeing anything resembling top line skill from them, or anything more than them being 2nd line support players doing the dirty work. It's way too early to say about KK, but there is a possibility that he might have first line skill- probably top 6 skill. Fiala showed he had elite top line skill for half a year last year, and has to show us this year that he is capable of doing it consistently.

Our latest prospect group of top forwards is Boldy, Rossi, Beckman, Khovanov, and let's say a player or two from the 1st round of the 2021 draft(forwards only).

My question is this. What is likely to be the most impressive grouping when their careers are said and done? Remember, Nino, and Coyle both had 50 point season, Zucker and MiG 60 point seasons.

Heck, MiG had basically a 70 point season. As close as you can get without making it, anyway. He was definitely a 1st line talent for several years, here, though not quite a consistent game-breaker. I'm doing my best to remember how I felt about our prospect pool back in 2012 and comparing it to how I feel now, which is difficult since I was basically a different person then and time distorts all memories. Honestly, I think our current prospect pool is not as good as that one from 2012 that had those guys you listed, plus Zack Phillips (who was fairly highly regarded at the time), Dumba and Brodin. I think it was a better pool than we actually remember.

From thesportsdaily.com in 2012 (it was the top result in Google when I searched for '2012 Wild prospect pool'):
1. Mikael Granlund
2. Jonas Brodin
3. Matt Dumba
4. Charlie Coyle
5. Matt Hackett
6. Johan Larsson
7. Brett Bulmer
8. Zack Phillips
9. Jason Zucker
10. Darcy Kuemper

Haula's not even listed on that, and most of these guys became useful NHL players. Hackett suffered a serious injury and never was the same, Bulmer fizzled after a strong start, and Phillips couldn't overcome his skating issues. The rest are players.

I think we're relying on some longer odds with our current prospect pool than we were in the 2012 pool, in banking on guys like Beckman and Khovanov. Taking off my recency bias glasses, I think Rossi is fairly equivalent to Granlund, and Boldy is fairly equivalent to Coyle, though I like Boldy's game more overall and think he has a bit higher of upside. Khusnutdinov is a guy I can't begin to project since I've never seen him outside of highlight reels. I don't love his size, but I do love what I hear about his skating and willingness to compete against bigger players. Comparable to Jason Zucker, as far as upside? *shrug*
A dark horse that I'm cautiously optimistic about is Nikita Nesterenko. A late pick with skill. Could be the "Haula" of his draft. That's not a style comparison, just a comparison of draft position vs. overall talent.

As far as defensive prospects go, after watching Addison, I like his slick skating and puck skill, but I think he's still a ways from being ready for the NHL, and I don't think he's going to be a top pairing guy, but that's only based on a couple of viewings, and so I may not have been seeing him at his best. Menell is a guy I hope we bring in next season, as I think he's either going to be a 2nd pairing defenseman, or a 3rd pairing guy that can man a power play unit. I haven't watched Daemon Hunt or Ryan O'Rourke play, personally, but I doubt they reach the level of Brodin or Dumba (well, maybe 2020 Dumba, but not 2017-19 Dumba). I think we've got solid prospects for the 2nd and 3rd pairing, and no prospects for the top pairing, which is a hole in our prospect group and will need to be mended in the next couple of drafts, or else we start relying on an aging Spurgeon to stay at his current level for a long time. Probably a longer time than is reasonable.

I think most of the other guys in our prospect pool project out to be 3rd or 4th liners.

So, I guess to answer your question, I'd conclude that I think our 2012 pool had more top-player potential, but that's the thing about potential, it needs to be reached to matter. This group could turn out better when all is said and done. I may be forgetting some players that we had in our pool back then, but I do think this prospect pool is deeper overall than that one we had in 2012, with more players projected to have an NHL future than we had then, even if those futures are bottom 6.
If I were shown both prospect pools without the hindsight of how they would pan out, and asked to put money on which was better, I would have put it on 2012.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Heck, MiG had basically a 70 point season. As close as you can get without making it, anyway. He was definitely a 1st line talent for several years, here, though not quite a consistent game-breaker. I'm doing my best to remember how I felt about our prospect pool back in 2012 and comparing it to how I feel now, which is difficult since I was basically a different person then and time distorts all memories. Honestly, I think our current prospect pool is not as good as that one from 2012 that had those guys you listed, plus Zack Phillips (who was fairly highly regarded at the time), Dumba and Brodin. I think it was a better pool than we actually remember.

From thesportsdaily.com in 2012 (it was the top result in Google when I searched for '2012 Wild prospect pool'):
1. Mikael Granlund
2. Jonas Brodin
3. Matt Dumba
4. Charlie Coyle
5. Matt Hackett
6. Johan Larsson
7. Brett Bulmer
8. Zack Phillips
9. Jason Zucker
10. Darcy Kuemper

Haula's not even listed on that, and most of these guys became useful NHL players. Hackett suffered a serious injury and never was the same, Bulmer fizzled after a strong start, and Phillips couldn't overcome his skating issues. The rest are players.

I think we're relying on some longer odds with our current prospect pool than we were in the 2012 pool, in banking on guys like Beckman and Khovanov. Taking off my recency bias glasses, I think Rossi is fairly equivalent to Granlund, and Boldy is fairly equivalent to Coyle, though I like Boldy's game more overall and think he has a bit higher of upside. Khusnutdinov is a guy I can't begin to project since I've never seen him outside of highlight reels. I don't love his size, but I do love what I hear about his skating and willingness to compete against bigger players. Comparable to Jason Zucker, as far as upside? *shrug*
A dark horse that I'm cautiously optimistic about is Nikita Nesterenko. A late pick with skill. Could be the "Haula" of his draft. That's not a style comparison, just a comparison of draft position vs. overall talent.

As far as defensive prospects go, after watching Addison, I like his slick skating and puck skill, but I think he's still a ways from being ready for the NHL, and I don't think he's going to be a top pairing guy, but that's only based on a couple of viewings, and so I may not have been seeing him at his best. Menell is a guy I hope we bring in next season, as I think he's either going to be a 2nd pairing defenseman, or a 3rd pairing guy that can man a power play unit. I haven't watched Daemon Hunt or Ryan O'Rourke play, personally, but I doubt they reach the level of Brodin or Dumba (well, maybe 2020 Dumba, but not 2017-19 Dumba). I think we've got solid prospects for the 2nd and 3rd pairing, and no prospects for the top pairing, which is a hole in our prospect group and will need to be mended in the next couple of drafts, or else we start relying on an aging Spurgeon to stay at his current level for a long time. Probably a longer time than is reasonable.

I think most of the other guys in our prospect pool project out to be 3rd or 4th liners.

So, I guess to answer your question, I'd conclude that I think our 2012 pool had more top-player potential, but that's the thing about potential, it needs to be reached to matter. This group could turn out better when all is said and done. I may be forgetting some players that we had in our pool back then, but I do think this prospect pool is deeper overall than that one we had in 2012, with more players projected to have an NHL future than we had then, even if those futures are bottom 6.
If I were shown both prospect pools without the hindsight of how they would pan out, and asked to put money on which was better, I would have put it on 2012.

You need to revisit this comparison after this years draft. The core you speak of was developed over 3 draft from 2010-2012 and included 4 1st rounders that we selected (MiG, Brodin, Phillips, Dumba) and two that we traded for (Coyle, Nino). And, the core also included a bunch of 2nd rounders. Right now, I'd certainly say the older core is stronger, but the next draft can change a lot.

 

[BagHead]

You need to revisit this comparison after this years draft. The core you speak of was developed over 3 draft from 2010-2012 and included 4 1st rounders that we selected (MiG, Brodin, Phillips, Dumba) and two that we traded for (Coyle, Nino). And, the core also included a bunch of 2nd rounders. Right now, I'd certainly say the older core is stronger, but the next draft can change a lot.

Yeah, I completely agree that it's not an apples to apples comparison. I don't think this prospect class is complete, yet. Unfortunately, the question was asked now and I don't know who we'll be drafting in the next draft, so I spoke of the pool as it is right now. That will almost certainly change with the next draft. Glad you mentioned that.

 

[Lapa]

Would someone like to make the GDT for the season opener? I can make one tomorrow if no one else wants to.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Final Roster. Mayhew on active as 13th forward, Bartowski to taxi squad.