Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIII

[2Pair]

As much as Suter has displayed, in my mind the captain really doesn’t matter. All the captain is, is someone who can talk to the refs, welcomes new teammates to the team, and is the face of the team. So far it only seems like Spurgeon does the welcoming to the team.

Spurgeon is the longest tenured player and with his contract will most likely be around for a lot longer. Unrightfully so, many fans in the fan base blame Suter for the country club atmosphere.

I would argue for majority of the fan base the fans like Spurgeon more than Suter.

I think Spurgeon will be picked since it will appease the fan base the most and in the end who wears the C doesn’t really matter.

if Suter gets picked that doesn’t bother me, it just seems like from the fan base and Russo his name rarely comes up as a front runner. I see Spurgeon, Foligno, and Parise In that order the most.

And you still haven't answered the question.

 

[MuckOG]

What leadership does he show on the ice?

I guess it depends on which qualities of "leadership" you desire in a player. If you want a "take charge, fiery, and in your face" display, then Spurgeon isn't that type of guy. But if you define leadership as "by example", then that's something Spurgeon consistently does both on and off the ice. He's a pro's pro.

 

[HotDish]

And you still haven't answered the question.

You ask for leadership qualities right? I said the same with Suter. They both don’t have traditional leadership qualities.

pregame speech is done by Dumba IIRC.(I might be 100% wrong I just thought I heard that before)

who talks to the refs the most? Parise seems like to me at least.

who welcomes new players? Spurgeon

I don’t see any leadership qualities that Suter has that Spurgeon doesn’t.

my hope is they go rotating As since I don’t think anyone is deserving of being the captain but it doesn’t sound that they will do that. If anything if you like to speculation the FS North interview with Guerin and Spurgeon shows that the FO felt like Spurgeon is the best to represent the team for the show.

 

[2Pair]

I guess it depends on which qualities of "leadership" you desire in a player. If you want a "take charge, fiery, and in your face" display, then Spurgeon isn't that type of guy. But if you define leadership as "by example", then that's something Spurgeon consistently does both on and off the ice. He's a pro's pro.

So, then he's almost as good a leader as Brodin?

 

[guitarhunterdude]

Cute. And then you follow it up with an example anyway.

Maybe you should define leadership as you see it, so we can actually have a conversation about it, because I'm not sure, but I think I may be shooting at a moving target here.
I'll start: I define leadership as the ability to influence or guide the actions of others through either words or actions of your own. How does your definition differ from mine? Perhaps you could tell me some examples of other players displaying the leadership qualities you're looking for?

Off the top of my head, there's all those times Spurgeon has jumped into the empty net to block shots and protect leads. So, there's another example for you.

Far as I can tell, "leadership" to a lot of people is "being a large, shouty, angry dude." Spurgeon would need to sprout 6 inches and 50lbs, become a physical player, and yell at the team, break sticks in frustration, etc. to satisfy these folks. I don't really get it myself. He seems to prep the right way, is allegedly one of the most helpful to new faces on the roster, plays well, and is long-tenured. I don't put any stock in meaningless jersey letters anyway, but he seems a decent choice to me.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The job of the captain is to "officially" talk to the referees on the ice, and represent the team to the public off of it. I'm not banging my fist on the table for him or anything, but Spurgeon can do both of those things as well as anybody on the team. If it's him, fine. If it's not, also fine. It'll change very little.

 

[AKL]

It'll be really weird for Guerin to say the culture needs to change and young guys need to step up, and then give the captaincy to a Suter, Parise or Spurgeon. My issue is that once you take those guys out, no one else really seems "captain-y". My preference would have been to have an extra A or two this season and see who actually steps up in the locker room.

Beyond that, however, a lot of these guys may not even be here next season. The defense is locked up, but among them you have Soucy, who has only been here for half a season, and Dumba, who almost got traded and likely still will get traded soon. So you're down to Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin. On offense you have Parise, Zuccarello, Rask, Greenway and Sturm signed, with Fiala, Kaprizov, Hartman, Eriksson Ek as RFA's who should get extension. I don't know how any of these guys are in the locker room. I wonder if Fiala has matured enough to be given a letter yet, because he's certainly poised to be one of the new faces of the franchise going forward.

Anyway, the ballsy (but still somewhat logical) option is Eriksson Ek, and I hope it does go to him just to see some of the reactions.

 

[GordieGallant]

It'll be really weird for Guerin to say the culture needs to change and young guys need to step up, and then give the captaincy to a Suter, Parise or Spurgeon. My issue is that once you take those guys out, no one else really seems "captain-y". My preference would have been to have an extra A or two this season and see who actually steps up in the locker room.

Beyond that, however, a lot of these guys may not even be here next season. The defense is locked up, but among them you have Soucy, who has only been here for half a season, and Dumba, who almost got traded and likely still will get traded soon. So you're down to Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin. On offense you have Parise, Zuccarello, Rask, Greenway and Sturm signed, with Fiala, Kaprizov, Hartman, Eriksson Ek as RFA's who should get extension. I don't know how any of these guys are in the locker room. I wonder if Fiala has matured enough to be given a letter yet, because he's certainly poised to be one of the new faces of the franchise going forward.

Anyway, the ballsy (but still somewhat logical) option is Eriksson Ek, and I hope it does go to him just to see some of the reactions.

I would be OK with Ek as Captain. I really like his game. Don’t see it happening though. My money is still on Spurgeon. Pound for pound the best player on the squad.

 

[grN1g]

I dont want an arse in your face captain thats toxic but I dont want a quiet pros pro either. I want the elevator, loud, follow me pros pro.

 

[TaLoN]

I dont want an arse in your face captain thats toxic but I dont want a quiet pros pro either. I want the elevator, loud, follow me pros pro.

Matt Dumba

 

[BagHead]

Matt Dumba

This. I'm not sure who else on the entire team has any real contract length and also fills that role.

 

[ThatGuy22]

It's going to be Spurgeon for a number of reasons.
1) One of the 3 best players on the team
2) Longest tenured player
3) Longest remaining contract
4) Highest paid player
5) All the background "reaches out to players" things.
6 ) On ice lead by example type, willing to sacrifice his body. Anecdotally, countless times it seems he's been a catalyst in late game comebacks.

Only box he really doesn't check is being boisterous. Which the only other logical candidate in Suter also lacks, and two that are more seemingly vocal don't make any sense (Foligno won't be here next year, and you don't name someone like Dumba captain when you spent 16 months shopping, and still probably want to).

Spurgeon checks the most boxes, Suter second most. Parise third most, but I doubt he's being considered.

 

[MuckOG]

 

[GuerinUp]

I will also 2nd the thought on dumba being captain. He literally fills every area both sides of the spurgeon suter debate have been arguing, the only 2 downsides i see to choosing him would be 1, Suter doesnt seem to like him and 2, he was just on the trade block. Point 1 i dont see as a problem, cuz we dont owe suter anything.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I will also 2nd the thought on dumba being captain. He literally fills every area both sides of the spurgeon suter debate have been arguing, the only 2 downsides i see to choosing him would be 1, Suter doesnt seem to like him and 2, he was just on the trade block. Point 1 i dont see as a problem, cuz we dont owe suter anything.

Zero evidence Suter doesn't like Dumba. Some evidence Suter doesn't enjoy playing with Dumba(or rather enjoys playing with Spurgeon more).

Big difference.

And there aren't really two sides to the Suter/Spurgeon debate. One poster is asking for evidence of Spurgeon's on ice qualifications, while not providing any for Suter.

They're basically the same player from a qualifications debates. Spurgeon checks a few other boxes better than Suter. Dumba really only checks one.

 

[GuerinUp]

Zero evidence Suter doesn't like Dumba. Some evidence Suter doesn't enjoy playing with Dumba(or rather enjoys playing with Spurgeon more).

Big difference.

And there aren't really two sides to the Suter/Spurgeon debate. One poster is asking for evidence of Spurgeon's on ice qualifications, while not providing any for Suter.

They're basically the same player from a qualifications debates. Spurgeon checks a few other boxes better than Suter. Dumba really only checks one.

Thats why i said it seems like he doesnt like him. I believe russo has stated before the reason they arent paired often is because suter doesnt like playing on a line with him. I feel like thats one of those "culture" things. didnt realize players were coaches now and got to choose lineups. Dumba checks more than one box, Hes a younger face that will relate more with the youth movement. Hes vocal on the ice, as well as in the locker room. And has established himself as a face of the franchise through interviews and media. I also would like to point out given the events in minnesota over the past year, making him captain would seem to align with the stand the team is trying to make PR wise.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Thats why i said it seems like he doesnt like him. I believe russo has stated before the reason they arent paired often is because suter doesnt like playing on a line with him. I feel like thats one of those "culture" things. didnt realize players were coaches now and got to choose lineups. Dumba checks more than one box, Hes a younger face that will relate more with the youth movement. Hes vocal on the ice, as well as in the locker room. And has established himself as a face of the franchise through interviews and media. I also would like to point out given the events in minnesota over the past year, making him captain would seem to align with the stand the team is trying to make PR wise.

This is how bad narratives start.

A poster one time says Suter doesn't like Dumba without being challenged on it or providing evidence of it, and two weeks later some one recalls reading it and posts the same. Soon it's established as HFLore fact that Suter and Dumba are mortal enemies.

There is no evidence Suter doesn't like him.

It has been said by Russo that Suter enjoys playing with Spurgeon more. He may have even hinted that Suter doesn't especially like playing with Dumba due to playstyles. That's not the same thing.

Also can you really blame Suter for liking to play with Spurgeon more? He's the better player, as a pair they've consistently put up the best results of any pair in the league for like 5 years straight. Of course he's going to enjoy playing with Spurgeon more. He's just a responsible in the D end as Suter, and has as good of offense as Dumba.

 

[57special]

Suter doesn't like playing with Dumba because Dumba is unpredictable, and Suter doesn't know where he is going to be and what he is going to do on the ice at any given moment. Let's not conflate that into, " Suter dislikes Dumba". There is no evidence of that at all.

Dumba lacks the gravitas of a captain. He seems to be a clown, very positive, and the sort of guy that keeps things light on the team. You want a few of those guys around, but not as you captain. My only problem with Spurgeon as a Captain is that he seems to be a guy who avoids the limelight, and might not be comfortable with it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I would also have no problem with Suter. One or two things that he does on the ice makes me roll my eyes, but basically, he is the best Dman that we've ever had in MN, is very experienced, and is an on ice leader. I do think that he is taken for granted, and there is a narrative that has built up among some that he is a locker room problem, when there is no solid evidence to that effect.

In other words, he is qualified to be a Captain, but I can see Guerin wanting to move on from the " old guard", like he did with Koivu and Staal.


Hah! @ThatGuy22 beat me to it!

 

[GuerinUp]

This is how bad narratives start.

A poster one time says Suter doesn't like Dumba without being challenged on it or providing evidence of it, and two weeks later some one recalls reading it and posts the same. Soon it's established as HFLore fact that Suter and Dumba are mortal enemies.

There is no evidence Suter doesn't like him.

It has been said by Russo that Suter enjoys playing with Spurgeon more. He may have even hinted that Suter doesn't especially like playing with Dumba due to playstyles. That's not the same thing.

Also can you really blame Suter for liking to play with Spurgeon more? He's the better player, as a pair they've consistently put up the best results of any pair in the league for like 5 years straight. Of course he's going to enjoy playing with Spurgeon more. He's just a responsible in the D end as Suter, and has as good of offense as Dumba.

I said "seems." theres a large difference between someone seeming like they do, or stating straight up something is a fact. That doesnt change the fact he shouldnt have a choice who he plays with. hes not a coach.

Also, i wouldnt necessarily say spurgeon is comparable offensively. They have different skills. One is more of a great passer with a decent shot, one has a borderline elite slapshot. Had dumba not torn his pec 2 seasons ago this may not even be a conversation. This isnt me saying i think one is better than the other, all 3 players mentioned are great in their own areas of expertise.

That being said, i see both of your points. which ultimately leans more and more to the fact we dont really have a guy whos hands down captain material.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I said "seems." theres a large difference between someone seeming like they do, or stating straight up something is a fact. That doesnt change the fact he shouldnt have a choice who he plays with. hes not a coach.

Also, i wouldnt necessarily say spurgeon is comparable offensively. They have different skills. One is more of a great passer with a decent shot, one has a borderline elite slapshot. Had dumba not torn his pec 2 seasons ago this may not even be a conversation. This isnt me saying i think one is better than the other, all 3 players mentioned are great in their own areas of expertise.

That being said, i see both of your points. which ultimately leans more and more to the fact we dont really have a guy whos hands down captain material.

Again, that's how bad narratives start. What makes it seem like that. You didn't provide any evidence, and there isn't any. Next time someone leaves out the "seems" portion, and the snowball starts.

So let's put it to bed, there is no evidence Suter dislikes Dumba.

As far as Suter dictating his partner, he doesn't. Twice in the last three years Dumba and Suter started out as partners to start the season. Both times it was reverted to Suter-Spurgeon because Suter-Dumba doesn't produce as well overall, specifically in the D zone.

 

[Glennsoe]

Short interview with zuccarello in Norway's largest newspaper today

Nyoperert Zuccarello tror ikke han rekker en NHL-start i januar – VG

Bullet Points;

- Says he had a tougher year with the wild than expected due to the time it took him to find his "spot/role" on the team. Says everyone knows eachother now so he's confident his play will pick up next season.

- He just took of his cast after a surgery in his arm (torn meniscus) that's been bothering him the last 2 years. It was during the play offs this year he said to himself that somethings wrong. Says the arm has bothered his play somewhat the last 2 years but it's no excuse he throws around.

- He says if the next season starts 01/01/21 he doubts he'll be ready by then but he take the teams doctors advice.

- He hasn't skated on an ice for 7 weeks..

- As far as he knows no one asked him to wave his no movement clause this summer.

- He knows he had a sub par season but want to revange himself

 

[a79krgm]

The 50 most valuable assets in hockey: The Athletic ranked the 50 players with the highest trade asset value along with 13 honorable mentions and not one Wild player made the list.

Other teams that had no players on the list were … Canadiens, Coyotes, Devils, Kings, Red Wings, Sharks:

 

[Webster]

Zucc is on his way back to Minnesota, wants to work with Wild coaches and hopes for a full recovery in time for next season.

Kinda hard to play well with a torn ligament in your arm, even Zucc didn't know the injury was this bad.

Guerin has not asked him to waive his NMC, Zucc likes Minnesota a lot, wants to stay here and show his skills as a healthy player.

You may ask why Norwegian doctors found his problem, and fixed him. What's up with Wild's medical staff?

 

[ThatGuy22]

The 50 most valuable assets in hockey: The Athletic ranked the 50 players with the highest trade asset value along with 13 honorable mentions and not one Wild player made the list.

Other teams that had no players on the list were … Canadiens, Coyotes, Devils, Kings, Red Wings, Sharks:

The 13 was "notables that didn't make the list", Spurgeon was among the 20 Honorable mentions at the end.

That said, it's one guys opinion. Not even a collection of writers, or no posted methodology. Just one guys opinion of I'd rather have this player than that.

 

[GuerinUp]

The 13 was "notables that didn't make the list", Spurgeon was among the 20 Honorable mentions at the end.

That said, it's one guys opinion. Not even a collection of writers, or no posted methodology. Just one guys opinion of I'd rather have this player than that.

he also had lafrierniere or however you spell his name near the top of the list without playing a single nhl game