Minnesota 2023-2024 Affiliates Thread (Iowa Wild, Iowa Heartlanders)

[Wonderful Tacos]

I hate to beat the kid down but I don't think Lambos has anything to offer outside of his n/s skating. Defensive zone coverage, decisions with pucks/pinchs/etc. all have left me shaking my head several times this year.

3rd goal against that D pairing - Lambos did nothing to close gap/get stick in the way. Man, we are at the 40 game mark, is it coaching at this point? Not showing any better today than the first week.

His stick checking and blue line holds have been weak to me since the first time i saw him. That's concerning to me bc they indicate low hand-eye coordination + long response time which i think are downstream of really just how innately smart the player is. He might get wiser over the course of time such that his decision making improves but will the responsiveness and stick skills ever be good enough to play at the NHL level?

 

[Wonderful Tacos]

Just finished watching the 3rd goal bc id been busy rewatching the 2nd.

Lambo starts shading over to ROR for no particular reason which has him mildly out of position. NOt a problem if he gets over to close the gap on pastujov but he just sort of drifts back with him leaving pastujov plenty of space to get to the top of the circle for an uncontested shot.

Great shot by pastujov and kind weak on mcintyre but i mean.. youre a defenseman, f***in defend the man lol.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

Spacek made a smart pinch after Petan got it on net to punch in the rebound. And then Lambos made a nice pinch to shelf a rebound on his backhand. Iowa down 4-2.

Oof, rough defensive play by Spacek there. Down 5-2.

 

[Wonderful Tacos]

lol iowa gave up two hattys tonight. one to nesterenko and one to pastujov. good stuff

 

[thestonedkoala]

Does anyone have any confidence that this team is going to develop the high end talent that may or may not be coming?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Does anyone have any confidence that this team is going to develop the high end talent that may or may not be coming?

Boldy, Rossi and Wallstedt have seemed to turn out alright. Lambos, TBD I guess, but defensemen can take time.

I'm not desperately looking for a reason to not have confidence, if that's what you're asking. But, then again, I also don't really believe in "development".

 

[57special]

Does anyone have any confidence that this team is going to develop the high end talent that may or may not be coming?

More often than not it's all about the players, and their talent, which includes smarts, character, and determination, as well as physical gifts. As long as the team is not some toxic mess most AHL teams are very similar. Reasonably good facilities and coaching, playing against other teams that are similar. There is no Magic Development Model that turns players into star NHL'ers. Iowa might not be the best at developing players, but the difference between them and other AHL teams is likely negligible.

The difference between good AHL teams and not so good is usually how many 1st rounders they have on them. We have two, both later 1sts. Wallstedt is doing just fine, and will probably be a long time NHL'er. Lambos has been up and down, but it's still early. All the rest are mid rounders, some undrafted. Expecting an AHL team to just sprinkle fairy dust on prospects and have them magically turn into NHL'ers is unrealistic.

The Jared Spurgeons and Erik Haula's don't succeed because their AHL team's development program was so awesome, but because they, themselves, made it happen.

Boldy, Rossi and Wallstedt have seemed to turn out alright. Lambos, TBD I guess, but defensemen can take time.

I'm not desperately looking for a reason to not have confidence, if that's what you're asking. But, then again, I also don't really believe in "development".

You said what i was trying to, in a lot fewer words.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Does anyone have any confidence that this team is going to develop the high end talent that may or may not be coming?

Seems unreasonable to expect high-end talent from a team with no high-end prospects (outside of Wallstedt)

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'm not desperately looking for a reason to not have confidence, if that's what you're asking. But, then again, I also don't really believe in "development".

So Pouliot, Sheppard, Kunin were always going to be busts, that their development was set in stone and no matter what coaching or what environment they were in they were always going to end up the way they were?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So Pouliot, Sheppard, Kunin were always going to be busts, that their development was set in stone and no matter what coaching or what environment they were in they were always going to end up the way they were?

I don't think there is a single thing we did or didn't do that prevented James Sheppard from being Claude Giroux, even though their QMJHL numbers were extremely similar.

I don't believe that Tampa Bay turned Point and Kucherov into POINT and KUCHEROV. I think the players did it, and the team just didn't get in their way.

Why could Edmonton develop Draisaitl but not Yakupov?

I think teams can influence marginal improvement at best, but ultimately, the players are going to be what they're going to be.

So my answer to your question is "mostly yes".

 

[57special]

So Pouliot, Sheppard, Kunin were always going to be busts, that their development was set in stone and no matter what coaching or what environment they were in they were always going to end up the way they were?

They had plenty of chances to play with other teams. Are you saying that they were bad at developing too, and that the only reason they haven't become impactful NHL players is because of development.

How's this. A little guy like Spurgeon, a 6th rounder, who wasn't even offered a contract by his drafting team, was picked up by the Wild as an afterthought, as an add to the AHL team. He just played so damn well, in psite of his little boy size and physique, that they were forced to give him a shot, and once he got it...well, the rest is his history.

If you going to criticize the Wild for Pouliot, you have to give them props for Spurgeon, no?

 

[thestonedkoala]

They had plenty of chances to play with other teams. Are you saying that they were bad at developing too, and that the only reason they haven't become impactful NHL players is because of development.

How's this. A little guy like Spurgeon, a 6th rounder, who wasn't even offered a contract by his drafting team, was picked up by the Wild as an afterthought, as an add to the AHL team. He just played so damn well, in psite of his little boy size and physique, that they were forced to give him a shot, and once he got it...well, the rest is his history.

If you going to criticize the Wild for Pouliot, you have to give them props for Spurgeon, no?

I mean - sort of yes; it's the chicken and the egg situation. In the case of Sheppard, skating was a big issue, but I always got the impression he had an ego as well. Pouliot actually developed into a decent middle 6 forward once away from Minnesota and that got parlayed into some decent contracts. Look at his career in Minnesota compared to Montreal. And then you had a guy like Erik Haula who really blossomed outside of Minnesota. Eriksson-Ek once they stopped getting in their way with him. It depends on what you think about Tuch.

And yeah, I think Minnesota has done a good job of developing defensemen in the past; between Scandella, Soucy, Seeler, Spurgeon, Stoner, (wow! Lots of S's...maybe we should keep drafting S defensemen). They also have done a good job of developing good checking forwards like Clutterbuck, Duhaime, Shaw, Dewar.

I mean honestly, why have a development team if you don't think development is a huge thing?

Like why can a team like Dallas crank out guys like Jason Robertson, Logan Stankoven, Mavrik Bourque, Roope Hintz, Reilly Smith, Jamie Benn at a semi consistent rate, but Minnesota can't even get a guy like Adam Beckman to be more than an AHL tweener at best?

Look at some of the better teams and consistently better teams in the league and their depth. Boston, New York Rangers (their 1st round picks though are laughable).

More so, why are we concerned that we are meeting the league average maybe at best when we should be aiming to be more like the teams like Boston, Tampa Bay and Dallas?

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I don't think there is a single thing we did or didn't do that prevented James Sheppard from being Claude Giroux, even though their QMJHL numbers were extremely similar.

I don't believe that Tampa Bay turned Point and Kucherov into POINT and KUCHEROV. I think the players did it, and the team just didn't get in their way.

Why could Edmonton develop Draisaitl but not Yakupov?

I think teams can influence marginal improvement at best, but ultimately, the players are going to be what they're going to be.

So my answer to your question is "mostly yes".

Our own beat writer, Joe Smith, had extensive articles on TB’s development team and the impact that they specifically had on Point and his skating technique changes from working with their development coaches.

It is of course a combination of a whole slew of factors that go into whether an 18 year old draft pick turns into a successful professional, and most of those factors are player influenced, but writing off focused skill training as non-influential in a players outcome is an unusual take IMO, it’s one of very few aspects that the teams have some form of control over.

It would be interesting to me to see what a higher draft age would do regarding 1st round bust percentage, I imagine it would be a pretty drastic shift in terms of hit rate at the top vs the later rounds.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Our own beat writer, Joe Smith, had extensive articles on TB’s development team and the impact that they specifically had on Point and his skating technique changes from working with their development coaches.

It is of course a combination of a whole slew of factors that go into whether an 18 year old draft pick turns into a successful professional, and most of those factors are player influenced, but writing off focused skill training as non-influential in a players outcome is an unusual take IMO, it’s one of very few aspects that the teams have some form of control over.

It would be interesting to me to see what a higher draft age would do regarding 1st round bust percentage, I imagine it would be a pretty drastic shift in terms of hit rate at the top vs the later rounds.

Sure is.

 

[Wabit]

The AHL develops the bottom of the roster players (Shaw, Dewar, Seeler). The top of the roster ones don's spend long enough at that level for it to mean much (generally speaking).

I do think a bad AHL team hinders development of players though.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The AHL develops the bottom of the roster players (Shaw, Dewar, Seeler). The top of the roster ones don's spend long enough at that level for it to mean much (generally speaking).

I do think a bad AHL team hinders development of players though.

How long is long enough?

 

[Wabit]

How long is long enough?

1 (healthy) season that is basically just a transition year for skaters. Learn what NA pro hockey game is, learn the team systems, learn how to be a pro off ice (time/body self management).

 

[Jbcraig1883]

LOL, Butcher falls and Iowa is down 1-0 19 seconds in...

And down 3-0 7 minutes into the game. This is starting to get worrisome.

 

[Wabit]

Iowa is tied for dead last in the AHL. Wallstedt standing on his head a few games is the only reason they aren't easily in last place. Fewest GF (tied), 3rd most GA. Petan has points in just over 1/3 of the team's goals.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Iowa is tied for dead last in the AHL. Wallstedt standing on his head a few games is the only reason they aren't easily in last place. Fewest GF (tied), 3rd most GA. Petan has points in just over 1/3 of the team's goals.

Well, at least they’ll get the #2 pick in the draft

 

[Wabit]

Well, at least they’ll get the #2 pick in the draft

They might get 1st, it all comes down to the tiebreakers.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

I hate to continue to beat the dead horse but what has happened the last few weeks is very worrisome to me. They come out and look like a JV team respective to an AHL team and get scored on a couple of times within the first 5 minutes. I don't see any improvement in structure and they have their guys back, except for Mermis and Vinni, so I have to start wondering if McLean is the right guy for the job.

There will be an influx of guys next year, especially up front, so I hope that helps, but from what I have seen since October makes me a bit concerned.

 

[Wabit]

I hate to continue to beat the dead horse but what has happened the last few weeks is very worrisome to me. They come out and look like a JV team respective to an AHL team and get scored on a couple of times within the first 5 minutes. I don't see any improvement in structure and they have their guys back, except for Mermis and Vinni, so I have to start wondering if McLean is the right guy for the job.

There will be an influx of guys next year, especially up front, so I hope that helps, but from what I have seen since October makes me a bit concerned.

They won't be getting all that much. I don't think any of their college prospects are leaving school after this season?
Possible FWD (noncollege) prospects: Ohgren (signed), Haight (signed), Firstov? (signed-KHL loan), Kumpulainen? (CHL), Marat K? (KHL), Yurov? (KHL), Petrovsky? (pending FA).

I don't think it's a coaching problem currently. I think it's a roster build issue for the AHL team.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

They won't be getting all that much. I don't think any of their college prospects are leaving school after this season?
Possible FWD (noncollege) prospects: Ohgren (signed), Haight (signed), Firstov? (signed-KHL loan), Kumpulainen? (CHL), Marat K? (KHL), Yurov? (KHL), Petrovsky? (pending FA).

I don't think it's a coaching problem currently. I think it's a roster build issue for the AHL team.

Ohgren, Haight, Petrovsky + maybe one or two others is a lot more than just Bankier this year or Milne last year (ok, you can add Walker).

Have you been watching a lot of games? Honestly asking - I am perfectly fine with differing views but I just see nothing from the bench at all in terms of changing things up, getting the team to be prepared for the games, etc.

 

[Wabit]

Ohgren, Haight, Petrovsky + maybe one or two others is a lot more than just Bankier this year or Milne last year (ok, you can add Walker).

Have you been watching a lot of games? Honestly asking - I am perfectly fine with differing views but I just see nothing from the bench at all in terms of changing things up, getting the team to be prepared for the games, etc.

I turn the games off rather quickly most times I tune in. They are a painful team to watch. Not many changes they can make really. They just don't have the scoring talent to play from behind, and the don't have the d-corps to play from ahead or even.

It's like the old saying. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make brew you a pot of coffee. Or something like that.