Mikko Rantanen Part III

[a mangy Meowth]

@a mangy Meowth sup man

Hey buddy!

 

[Sea Eagles]

Lookin for my boy to score circa 90 this season, and help Mack Daddy to score 100.

 

[klozge]

It honestly kind of bothers me that people think "driving play" from another line and scoring 69 is better than scoring 84 points simply because there is a better player at center. Rantanen is better than Marner. And he gets the worse matchups. Don't ****in @ me

Marner can skate, though. That's pretty important in hockey.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Lookin for my boy to score circa 90 this season, and help Mack Daddy to score 100.

I will settle for Mikko being a PPG player next season.

 

[BleedWell]

Mikko gave an interview last friday to the finnish news site mtv. He said there's been some conversation between him and the Avs conserning about his new contract. He thinks it's more likely though that it's a matter of next summer cause he wants to show he can maintain last years level and play even better and produce more points.
So does this mean Sakic has offered him shitty contract and that's that for now or are they still negotiating before next season...

 

[RockLobster]

Mikko gave an interview last friday to the finnish news site mtv. He said there's been some conversation between him and the Avs conserning about his new contract. He thinks it's more likely though that it's a matter of next summer cause he wants to show he can maintain last years level and play even better and produce more points.
So does this mean Sakic has offered him ****ty contract and that's that for now or are they still negotiating before next season...

From what I had heard, about 3-4 weeks ago, was that both sides were more-than-comfortable with seeing how the season went. No ill-will or anything.

 

[McMetal]

Mikko gave an interview last friday to the finnish news site mtv. He said there's been some conversation between him and the Avs conserning about his new contract. He thinks it's more likely though that it's a matter of next summer cause he wants to show he can maintain last years level and play even better and produce more points.
So does this mean Sakic has offered him ****ty contract and that's that for now or are they still negotiating before next season...

It probably means no more than what Mikko said. He wants a bigger contract, and the way to do that is to play well next season and get 80+ points again. Not much of a conspiracy there, IMO.

That's kind of how it is when you have a full year to come up with a new deal, the player can bet on themselves and try to do better. Nothing wrong with that. Sakic probably did his due diligence and asked if he could get Mikko for a lower number, he said he'd rather play out the season, and Sakic said OK. You don't alienate your star young winger who happens to perfectly complement your elite 1C just over signing them to a contract a year before you need to.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'd say Sakic was trying to lock him up long term for ~6-7M and Rantanen is betting on himself to repeat what he did last year again this year and thus moving his contract negotiations way up the board.


Smart bet on Rantanen's behalf and unfortunate for the Avs I guess. If he does repeat at ~85 points he can easily start asking for 8-9M and be deserving of every penny he gets.


And if he does regress and say only hits 60-70 points, he still has a solid case for that 6-7M range that the Avs are likely trying to get him at now. Given what Larkin just signed for, what Nylander will likely sign for, and what Pastrnak has recently signed for he can definitely get 6-7M next summer after a 60 point season in 18/19.

 

[Foppa2118]

It honestly kind of bothers me that people think "driving play" from another line and scoring 69 is better than scoring 84 points simply because there is a better player at center. Rantanen is better than Marner. And he gets the worse matchups. Don't ****in @ me

"Driving the play" is the most over used and over emphasized phrase on HF. Put the same player on different teams, both good and bad teams, with different coaches, different systems, and in different roles, with different line mates, that they have different chemistry with, and you're going to get very different results.

People rely on advanced stats like crutches. I'll never understand the high level of importance they place on these things when hockey is so situational.

 

[McMetal]

"Driving the play" is the most over used and over emphasized phrase on HF. Put the same player on different teams, both good and bad teams, with different coaches, different systems, and in different roles, with different line mates, that they have different chemistry with, and you're going to get very different results.

People rely on advanced stats like crutches. I'll never understand the high level of importance they place on these things when hockey is so situational.

I don't think you need advanced stats to tell that MacK is the engine of that line. That doesn't mean Rants isn't important. If you want to further torture the metaphor, Rantanen is the fuel and Landy is the oil. But when MacK went down last year, Rantanen wasn't able to elevate the play of Kerfoot and bring offense. And again, that's not really a knock on him. It's a rare player who can truly drive offense from the wing. We're talking Hall, Panarin, Benn, Ovechkin. Rants may even get there someday, he's only two seasons into his NHL career and not at his prime yet.

Yes, maybe you could speculate that if SJ had taken him instead of Meier his development would have gone on a different trajectory. But that's a pointless line of inquiry IMO. Rants is an Av, and that's what he'll be for a long time.

 

[The Abusement Park]

"Driving the play" is the most over used and over emphasized phrase on HF. Put the same player on different teams, both good and bad teams, with different coaches, different systems, and in different roles, with different line mates, that they have different chemistry with, and you're going to get very different results.

People rely on advanced stats like crutches. I'll never understand the high level of importance they place on these things when hockey is so situational.

I agree. It’s weird how players who have good chemistry and play well together get downgraded on HF because it must mean one player is getting carried. I mean obviously Mack is the better player between the 2, but it’s clear that they both feed off each other and bring the most out of each other.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think you need advanced stats to tell that MacK is the engine of that line. That doesn't mean Rants isn't important. If you want to further torture the metaphor, Rantanen is the fuel and Landy is the oil. But when MacK went down last year, Rantanen wasn't able to elevate the play of Kerfoot and bring offense. And again, that's not really a knock on him. It's a rare player who can truly drive offense from the wing. We're talking Hall, Panarin, Benn, Ovechkin. Rants may even get there someday, he's only two seasons into his NHL career and not at his prime yet.

Yes, maybe you could speculate that if SJ had taken him instead of Meier his development would have gone on a different trajectory. But that's a pointless line of inquiry IMO. Rants is an Av, and that's what he'll be for a long time.

Chemistry, line mates, and a coach's system are massive contributors to "driving the play" but they don't get accounted for. I wouldn't put much stock into Mikko's ability to elevate Kerfoot's play. They don't seem like natural fits for each other IMO.

 

[McMetal]

Chemistry, line mates, and a coach's system are massive contributors to "driving the play" but they don't get accounted for. I wouldn't put much stock into Mikko's ability to elevate Kerfoot's play. They don't seem like natural fits for each other IMO.

Maybe we have different definitions of "driving the play" if you think systems have anything to do with it. No system in the NHL naturally depends on wingers to carry a line. Players like Hall and Panarin do it anyway, and it is worth noting that both have done so in two different orgs, with completely different linemates.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don't think you need advanced stats to tell that MacK is the engine of that line. That doesn't mean Rants isn't important. If you want to further torture the metaphor, Rantanen is the fuel and Landy is the oil. But when MacK went down last year, Rantanen wasn't able to elevate the play of Kerfoot and bring offense. And again, that's not really a knock on him. It's a rare player who can truly drive offense from the wing. We're talking Hall, Panarin, Benn, Ovechkin. Rants may even get there someday, he's only two seasons into his NHL career and not at his prime yet.

Yes, maybe you could speculate that if SJ had taken him instead of Meier his development would have gone on a different trajectory. But that's a pointless line of inquiry IMO. Rants is an Av, and that's what he'll be for a long time.

I'd also point out that Mikko's struggles at the end of the year injury related or not absolutely tanked Mack's scoring pace in the final weeks.

 

[Foppa2118]

Maybe we have different definitions of "driving the play" if you think systems have anything to do with it. No system in the NHL naturally depends on wingers to carry a line. Players like Hall and Panarin do it anyway, and it is worth noting that both have done so in two different orgs, with completely different linemates.

Systems affect how you approach the game, who you defer to with the puck, whether you should hold onto the puck or move it, how long you should hold onto it, who you should pass to, whether you should pass back to the D more often or to the forwards down low, whether you should shoot more often, whether you should prioritize possession, or prioritize putting pucks on net, whether you bring the defense into plays to take advantage of your transition game, whether you design plays to score off the rush, how aggressive your forecheck is, how you capitalize on turnovers and where on the ice your linemates are during those turnovers, etc.

All of that affects the way you create scoring chances, score goals, and the way you interact with your linemates, and how they factor into scoring chances on the stat sheet.

Just like with any kind of stat, they can help you reinforce ideas, and there's varying degrees of how accurate/innacurate they can be in different cases. But that's mostly not how the idea of "driving the play" is used. It's mostly used as THE proof for a particular opinion. It's not usually used as one of many elements to reinforce something that you've already mostly proven.

The most recent example I've seen of this is saying ROR isn't a #1C, despite the fact he meets someone's own offensive and defensive criteria, by the fact alone that he doesn't "drive offense." So therefore that proves he's not a #1C. It's just a silly argument to make IMO, if you're relying that heavily on it to define what level a player is. I guarantee you a team could win the Cup with ROR as the #1C, if they built the team properly around him with sufficient depth.

 

[Ippenator]

Systems affect how you approach the game, who you defer to with the puck, whether you should hold onto the puck or move it, how long you should hold onto it, who you should pass to, whether you should pass back to the D more often or to the forwards down low, whether you should shoot more often, whether you should prioritize possession, or prioritize putting pucks on net, whether you bring the defense into plays to take advantage of your transition game, whether you design plays to score off the rush, how aggressive your forecheck is, how you capitalize on turnovers and where on the ice your linemates are during those turnovers, etc.

All of that affects the way you create scoring chances, score goals, and the way you interact with your linemates, and how they factor into scoring chances on the stat sheet.

Just like with any kind of stat, they can help you reinforce ideas, and there's varying degrees of how accurate/innacurate they can be in different cases. But that's mostly not how the idea of "driving the play" is used. It's mostly used as THE proof for a particular opinion. It's not usually used as one of many elements to reinforce something that you've already mostly proven.

The most recent example I've seen of this is saying ROR isn't a #1C, despite the fact he meets someone's own offensive and defensive criteria, by the fact alone that he doesn't "drive offense." So therefore that proves he's not a #1C. It's just a silly argument to make IMO, if you're relying that heavily on it to define what level a player is. I guarantee you a team could win the Cup with ROR as the #1C, if they built the team properly around him with sufficient depth.

Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

 

[BleedWell]

So. Only six games in but it's enough to say that we have even better Mikko Rantanen in our hands than what we had last year. He's stronger on his skates, better balance, the first couple of strides are quicker and most inportantly he has started to drive the play. I think he has been our best and most dangerous player so far at least the last two games. Only one goal so far but it's only matter of time when those start to hit the net instead of posts.
If he stays healthy he might very well hit 90-100 points this season. What does that mean salary wise? 9 mil/year or even 10? Sakic really should have locked him up last summer with 7-8million. Next summer it's gonna be expensive.

P.S. Mike Chambers wrote that if Rantanen can re-produce his last year numbers he will be our second highest payed player after Mackinnon. Shouldn't he be proffesional writer

 

[The Abusement Park]

Mikko is guaranteed to be our highest paid player after this season. Still wish we coulda signed him up after last season.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Mikko is guaranteed to be our highest paid player after this season. Still wish we coulda signed him up after last season.

Not if we sign Panarin, but maybe if we sign Stone lol.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

When he scores his next goal this year.... Look out.


I cant believe how flat out dominant he has looked so far this season. He's starting to work the Foppa(Reverse hit) into his game and it's creating a tonne of added space for him down low. Not to mention his hands are still just as ridiculous as they were last year.


He's ridiculous. I think his timing for his shot is off ever so slightly right now, but once that clicks again he's going to explode. The fact he still has 9 points in 6 games now is just crazy. Would not surprise me in the least for him to hit 30 goals and 90 points this year.

 

[Foppa2118]

Mikko had 29 goals last year, and he looks hungrier to shoot and score this year than last. I wouldn't be surprised if he hits 40 if he stays healthy. Then again maybe Nate just keeps scoring every game and Mikko racks up like 80 assists.

 

[Foppberg]

I'd have no problem with Mikko being our highest paid player, and neither does Nate.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think people are starting to realize that Mikko will most likely be an $8-9M player in this league soon, and soon after that Nate will probably be a $10-11M player. Maybe even more with Nate if he dominates every year.

 

[Avs71]

I think people are starting to realize that Mikko will most likely be an $8-9M player in this league soon, and soon after that Nate will probably be a $10-11M player. Maybe even more with Nate if he dominates every year.

Great “problem” to have.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Good problem to have when you talk about having to pay salaries to elite talent. Feelsgoodman