Mike Smith Is So Bad

[zar]

And Oilers fans declared themselves cup champs before last season started.. some people say dumb things.

On topic, Smith was never the solution.

Deflect...

Seems like you blanked that off season out as most on hf would disagree. Not every team can win the lottery over and over and still be mediocre, so to talk about Calgary being average is kind of asinine when Edmonton is right there with us.

... deflect ...

It's just as overrated as Edmonton going into last season, which was grossly overrated and exposed as being a one season wonder of over achievers

... deflect.

Deflection is the the same as admission.

Flames D is average and their goaltending is below average... just admit it already.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Deflect...



... deflect ...



... deflect.

Deflection is the the same as admission.

Flames D is average and their goaltending is below average... just admit it already.

If you [mod] read my second post you could see I essentially called the Flames mediocre.

 

[zar]

If you [mod] read my second post you could see I essentially called the Flames mediocre.

I see that, my apologies... you are right, the Flames D has been mediocre.

You can now stop bringing the Oilers up in this discussion because there is no good reason to do so.... other than to deflect the discussion into an off-topic direction.

 

[nabob]

It's just as overrated as Edmonton going into last season, which was grossly overrated and exposed as being a one season wonder of over achievers

What would that makes the Flames and their defense? Zero season wonders?


Smith would look just fine playing behind a team that wasn’t grossly overrated defensively. Flames defense has been ruining good goalies for a decade now.

 

[Bleedred]

Last season Mrazek was much better in DET than in PHI and this season Mrazek is good in CAR.

What happened with Smith this season is the same what happend with Mrazek in PHI last season and this has nothing to with the goalies. For CGY it has to do with goalie coach Sigalet.

Mrazek is good in Carolina? What? Get outta here! Since when is .885% good? I realize this is a very small sample size and one or two good games at this point very early in the season can get those numbers up to respectability or even above average, but Mrazek over his last 96 games played for a combined 3 teams has a .900% save percentage. These numbers usually get you thrown out of the league before long....

Outside of that, I'm not sure of Sigalet. Was he the goalie coach there last year? Smith played like he normally does (pretty average) last year with him. Obviously, Elliott sucked there the year before, but Elliott has never been good on a team that wasn't coached by Ken Hitchcock and Chad Johnson played to his career average that year in Calgary.

As I said multiple times, it's too early to say Smith is definitely falling apart or that the goalie coach is a problem for him (unless he's a new goalie coach and wasn't there last year when he played like he normally does), we'll have to see how he's doing after about 20 games to get a better idea or maybe even 30 games.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

Flames fans have been telling us for years they have one of the best defensive cores in the league

I've seen more Oilers fans say it than I've ever seen Flames fans say it.

 

[JPeeper]

Flames fans have been telling us for years they have one of the best defensive cores in the league

I've been on HF for years, call out my own fans pretty much all of the time, and I have never once read a Flames fan on this site ever say the flames had the or one of the best d-cores in the league.

It is only ever brought up by other fans and claimed Flames fans have said it.

 

[Eyeseeing]

He's approx 100 years old now. Hang em up already my man.

Little know fact... him and Bob Cole went to school together ​

 

[JurassicTunga]

What would that makes the Flames and their defense? Zero season wonders?


Smith would look just fine playing behind a team that wasn’t grossly overrated defensively. Flames defense has been ruining good goalies for a decade now.

Since Kipper, the Flames have had guys like:
Joey MacDonald
Reto Berra
Jonas Hiller
Karri Ramo
Joni Ortio
Brian Elliott
Chad Johnson
Mike Smith
David Rittich

Not exactly an all star cast of goalies. Pretty much all of these guys are out of the league or soon will be. Treliving really needs to find stability here. Go after quality goaltending instead of bargain bin diving like they have for so many years now. Might have to pay a prettyy price, but it should be worth it.

 

[nabob]

Since Kipper, the Flames have had guys like:
Joey MacDonald
Reto Berra
Jonas Hiller
Karri Ramo
Joni Ortio
Brian Elliott
Chad Johnson
Mike Smith
David Rittich

Not exactly an all star cast of goalies. Pretty much all of these guys are out of the league or soon will be. Treliving really needs to find stability here. Go after quality goaltending instead of bargain bin diving like they have for so many years now. Might have to pay a prettyy price, but it should be worth it.

I’d invest in some decent Dmen and forwards who can play in their own end of the ice

 

[Dack]

Over time every goalie will look bad in this, Smith isn't an answer but before we blow assets on a true starter we have to fix the underlying issue. I don't think Smith is good but I think there are very few goalies good enough to give us an average performance when we play like we have.


For the record the Gulutzan teams sucked at generating and finishing chances. They were generally good defensively.

 

[lawrence]

same dude who trashed his old team after he went to Calgary? Don't feel bad for this clown.

 

[airbus220]

Mrazek is good in Carolina? Since when is .885% good?

Mrazek's EVsave% of the 7 games he played with CAR so far this season are
.938 .750 .957 .955 .938 .952 .941
and the .750 game Mrazek even won. Forgetting about this game because he won it his lowest EVsave% is .938.

Last season an EVsave% of .938 would be #4 among all goalies who played more than 5 games. I would say Mrazek is pretty good in CAR.

It's not bad if you watch every goal, but the conditions for all goalies are not the same. Comparing goalies with different conditions is useless.

For Smith this season the conditions are bad and that's because of coaching, same as it was for Mrazek in PHI last season. See above how good Mrazek can be if a coach knows what he's doing, TOP 4.

 

[super6646]

Deflect...



... deflect ...



... deflect.

Deflection is the the same as admission.

Flames D is average and their goaltending is below average... just admit it already.

So why exactly are you guys baiting? It's not the defense that prevents smith from stopping shots from the point, or forcing smith to kick rebounds back to the opposing team. No question there have been issues adjusting systematically, but he's been awful on his own merit.

 

[Bleedred]

Mrazek's EVsave% of the 7 games he played with CAR so far this season are
.938 .750 .957 .955 .938 .952 .941
and the .750 game Mrazek even won. Forgetting about this game because he won it his lowest EVsave% is .938.

Last season an EVsave% of .938 would be #4 among all goalies who played more than 5 games. I would say Mrazek is pretty good in CAR.

It's not bad if you watch every goal, but the conditions for all goalies are not the same. Comparing goalies with different conditions is useless.

For Smith this season the conditions are bad and that's because of coaching, same as it was for Mrazek in PHI last season. See above how good Mrazek can be if a coach knows what he's doing, TOP 4.

As far as Mrazek goes, I thought he could have had that second goal scored on him tonight, but it wasn't a terrible goal, but that hits pretty good goalies the chest sometimes or even the shoulder or glove.

Is the goalie coach in Calgary new this year?

 

[Tom Polakis]

Can there just be a Flames/Oilers forum for these types of threads?

 

[super6646]

As far as Mrazek goes, I thought he could have had that second goal scored on him tonight, but it wasn't a terrible goal, but that hits pretty good goalies the chest sometimes or even the shoulder or glove.

Is the goalie coach in Calgary new this year?

No, it's his 5th year

 

[viper0220]

Last season Mrazek was much better in DET than in PHI and this season Mrazek is good in CAR.

What happened with Smith this season is the same what happend with Mrazek in PHI last season and this has nothing to with the goalies. For CGY it has to do with goalie coach Sigalet.

This is not true, Sigalet is not the best but he is not the worst. He has had crap goaltenders to work with.

This is the stats of goalies he worked with.


He was hired in 2014.

2014/15: Hiller 2.36 / .918
Ramo 2.60 / .912

2015/16: Hiller 3.53 / .879
Ramo 2.63 / .909

2016/17: Elliott 2.55 / .910
Johnson 2.59 / 9.10

2017/18: Smith 2.65 / .916
Rittich 2.92 / .904

Hiller’s career averages: 2.55 / .914
Ramo’s career averages: 2.85 / .906
Elliott’s career averages: 2.47 / .912
Johnson’s career averages: 2.66 / .909
Smith’s career averages: 2.71 / .912
Rittich’s career averages: 2.82 / .910

Can they better, yes but they were close to their career numbers. Other than Hiller's second season, they are close or better than their career averages. Had you knew anything about the Flames, is that they have not had good goaltending since Kipper.

 

[Bleedred]

This is not true, Sigalet is not the best but he is not the worst. He has had crap goaltenders to work with.

This is the stats of goalies he worked with.


He was hired in 2014.

2014/15: Hiller 2.36 / .918
Ramo 2.60 / .912

2015/16: Hiller 3.53 / .879
Ramo 2.63 / .909

2016/17: Elliott 2.55 / .910
Johnson 2.59 / 9.10

2017/18: Smith 2.65 / .916
Rittich 2.92 / .904

Hiller’s career averages: 2.55 / .914
Ramo’s career averages: 2.85 / .906
Elliott’s career averages: 2.47 / .912
Johnson’s career averages: 2.66 / .909
Smith’s career averages: 2.71 / .912
Rittich’s career averages: 2.82 / .910

Can they better, yes but they were close to their career numbers.

I don't know much about the Calgary goalie coach at all, but Calgary has had some poor netminders over the last several years, but they were usually around where they were in other places, just like you pointed out.

Hiller had his best season in years the first year in Calgary, before having probably the worst season a goalie has had this decade. Perhaps he wasn't as bad as he played that season, he probably wouldn't have been THAT bad if he played again in the NHL the next year, but it's also possible that his NHL career had just reached its expiration date.

Elliott continues to be what he was in Calgary in Philly, and what he was before he was in St. Louis. The truth is that this is a goaltender that only played well in St. Louis. He never had a good season outside of there and he's been in the league for a decade.

Smith played right around where he was in Arizona, perhaps a bit better last year, and he hasn't even played 10 games this year yet.

Ramo was mediocre, but not nearly as terrible in Calgary as he was before he originally washed out of the NHL when he was in Tampa, before he returned to the NHL for a few years.

Johnson has been a career backup, who has fluctuating numbers from year to year, but he was actually no worse in Calgary when he played a heavier role than he did most seasons. He's certainly had worse seasons on other teams than he did in Calgary.

I do think Calgary needs a more stable goaltender, as Smith is almost to the end of his career and Elliott was a complete bust for them, even though I initially liked the trade at first. I think I liked the trade for them when it happened because I thought he legit improved over the years and I don't really believe there's a such thing as a system goalie, but I think that if there is, Brian Elliott definitely one of them.

 

[SR]

But at least he's on a team that can score, am I right Smitty?

Bang. Post of the thread.

Glad we sacked that finger pointing, whiney bitch when we did.

 

[airbus220]

This is not true, Sigalet is not the best but he is not the worst. He has had crap goaltenders to work with.

To me responsible which goalie gets the start is the goalie coach but it could also be the head coach so it must not be Sigalet's fault alone.

Let me use this example with a car. You drove your car last time in April. Six months later You want to drive it again. You don't know if your wife used it or what happend with the car during the summer. You should check oil, water and tires before you drive again.
Because CGY used Smith with crazy workloads at the start of last season doesn't mean it's good to do it again. They were just lucky last year in October. They don't know what happend in summer, didn't check oil and water and have these results now. You don't need a coaching staff who only assume everything is good, every fan could do the same for free. A good coach has to check but even then he can't be 100% sure. So if you don't want to damage something it's better to drive slowly and see how it goes. For Smith the season didn't start October 3, it started September 24 and he played till he was pulled October 11. Bad to drive without oil. You think it's the fault of the car not to have enough oil and not to tell you? That's why the team owner has a coaching staff but the coaches damaged it.

Mrazek was damaged since Febuary 20 in PHI too. With CAR Mrazek is .949 EVsave% in games he didn't win. With .949 he would be the best goalie last season who played more than 5 games.

 

[airbus220]

Elliott continues to be what he was in Calgary in Philly, and what he was before he was in St. Louis. The truth is that this is a goaltender that only played well in St. Louis. He never had a good season outside of there and he's been in the league for a decade.

I do think Calgary needs a more stable goaltender, Elliott was a complete bust for them, even though I initially liked the trade at first. I think I liked the trade for them when it happened because I thought he legit improved over the years and I don't really believe there's a such thing as a system goalie, but I think that if there is, Brian Elliott definitely one of them.

Elliott was so great in Febuary and March 2017 in CGY. In sports it's all about when you peak. That's the job of coaches.

 

[viper0220]

To me responsible which goalie gets the start is the goalie coach but it could also be the head coach so it must not be Sigalet's fault alone.

Let me use this example with a car. You drove your car last time in April. Six months later You want to drive it again. You don't know if your wife used it or what happend with the car during the summer. You should check oil, water and tires before you drive again.
Because CGY used Smith with crazy workloads at the start of last season doesn't mean it's good to do it again. They were just lucky last year in October. They don't know what happend in summer, didn't check oil and water and have these results now. You don't need a coaching staff who only assume everything is good, every fan could do the same for free. A good coach has to check but even then he can't be 100% sure. So if you don't want to damage something it's better to drive slowly and see how it goes. For Smith the season didn't start October 3, it started September 24 and he played till he was pulled October 11. Bad to drive without oil. You think it's the fault of the car not to have enough oil and not to tell you? That's why the team owner has a coaching staff but the coaches damaged it.

Mrazek was damaged since Febuary 20 in PHI too. With CAR Mrazek is .949 EVsave% in games he didn't win. With .949 he would be the best goalie last season who played more than 5 games.

The Flames have personal trainers that work with these guys during the off season, so it is not like they did not know what kind of shape these guys are just in. From the start of training camp, the team knew that Smiths workload has to be reduced.

 

[biturbo19]

It would have been one thing for Calgary to gamble on Mike Smith turning it around if he'd come with a minimal/short-term commitment. But it was such a double-whammy to their future goaltending situation that they not only "cheaped out" on acquiring the right guy in the first place a few years back...but that they ended up stuck with that contract in the process. Just sorta leaves you stuck with the guy, and seriously narrows your options and alternatives. He's just never really been anything more than a mediocre goaltender benefiting from a system, even at his peak. Expecting him to even hit that level into his twilight years always seemed like a fools errand. But there the Flames were...seemingly banking on exactly that. And they're still suffering for it.

 

[super6646]

But at least he's on a team that can score, am I right Smitty?

Yeah, that really wasnt cool. He seems like a nice guy off the ice, but he can look like an arrogant shit when dealing with on-ice matters.