Confirmed with Link: Mike Johnston fired

[radapex]

There's lots of similarities, sure. I guess we'll see what Sullivan picked up from his first attempt at being a NHL head coach.

In all honesty, though, I convinced it's the sort of thing nobody's good at immediately. Even the great coaches seem to spend a lot of time working with other great coaches before they head out on their own. I do feel that Johnston kind of got a raw deal with his time here, but you live and learn, and Johnston could be back in the league some day, if conditions are right. Coaching in the juniors is fine, but an NHL team has other needs.

It's a very volatile thing. Patrick Roy looked like a genius his first season as an NHL head coach and took home the Jack Adams. He's looked far from that ever since.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think the biggest issue MJ faced, especially this year, is that the holes in the roster aren't spread out like they were when Therrien or Bylsma were here. Those days, you'd have a weak 4th line and a weak bottom pairing on D. But there was enough there with the others that it wasn't a huge deal. Now we're strong from top to bottom up front, but very weak in just about every aspect defensively. This group of defensemen struggles to generate offense, struggles to transition the puck, and struggles to play defense -- it's wasn't a good situation for MJ, and it's not a good situation for Sullivan.

Is it any less of an ideal situation than when we had a great bottom 6 and defense and no offense? Again, there's little Sullivan or Johnston can do besides lobbying the GM to make a move (which is no guarantee that it can be made or will be made), but you have to work with what you have, not with what you'd like to have. And that's the litmus test of a good coach.

We have different holes now, but no team is going to have a perfect roster in this day and age. Sullivan's first job should be to find a way to maximize the offense with what we have. If that means working on the transition or trying a new breakout or d-pairs, good. If that means giving Sid and Geno and Kessel more leeway, that works too. But this is not a team that was built to be playing 2-1 or 1-0 games like we've been playing, and Johnston just couldn't seem to find a way to make this roster work in the confines of his system.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think the biggest issue MJ faced, especially this year, is that the holes in the roster aren't spread out like they were when Therrien or Bylsma were here. Those days, you'd have a weak 4th line and a weak bottom pairing on D. But there was enough there with the others that it wasn't a huge deal. Now we're strong from top to bottom up front, but very weak in just about every aspect defensively. This group of defensemen struggles to generate offense, struggles to transition the puck, and struggles to play defense -- it's wasn't a good situation for MJ, and it's not a good situation for Sullivan.

Yeah this defense isn't good, but MJ was too risk averse with the personnel he did play (or Agnew played and MJ allowed to happen).

Scuderi offers you nothing in an MJ system yet he rarely sat. In the games he did sit, MJ makes post game comments like "I thought our D moved the puck really well tonight". Gee I wonder what contributed to that. Basically, JR dug his own grave by taking a mediocre defense with upside and put an anchor in there every game.

 

[td_ice]

I do mind. Kunitz is 36 years old. He should not play 20mins of ice hockey in the NHL anymore. I'm pretty sure he will not sustain his current play (which imo isn't as good as most guys feel like. He was getting a few lucky bounces and threw some nice hits. But I would not call him special or the "Kuni-Crosby Magic" to came back)

I would ride it out. When his age or whatever bs maliase he was exhibiting earlier show up again, then you take him off Sid's line. No one is saying you have to keep him there long term.

I wouldn't call 8 points in 5 games a "few lucky bounces". No one called him special or magical.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's a very volatile thing. Patrick Roy looked like a genius his first season as an NHL head coach and took home the Jack Adams. He's looked far from that ever since.

But that's exactly what I mean, and Roy's a great example. Bylsma too, was widely regarded when he took over and the season after, up until that Montreal series. The Adams trophy is pretty much covered with the names of these kinds of coaches.

Lots of coaches can't seem to deviate from their plan or their philosophy. Having never coached, I'm not sure why that is.

 

[Shady Machine]

I would ride it out. When his age or whatever bs maliase he was exhibiting earlier show up again, then you take him off Sid's line. No one is saying you have to keep him there long term.

I wouldn't call 8 points in 5 games a "few lucky bounces". No one called him special or magical.

I'm fine with riding it out, but I am more concerned about getting Hornqvist going. Right now, they just need to win, but they need that guy playing at his last year level if they want to compete in the playoffs.

 

[gdsmack267]

Rossi going on leafs lunch in a few minutes to discuss pens. Cant wait to hear his BS


http://www2.tsn.ca/toronto/listen/

 

[HandshakeLine]

I would ride it out. When his age or whatever bs maliase he was exhibiting earlier show up again, then you take him off Sid's line. No one is saying you have to keep him there long term.

I wouldn't call 8 points in 5 games a "few lucky bounces". No one called him special or magical.

Exactly. Ride it out, increase his value, and then when he starts to slump start calling about a trade trumpeting our "youth" movement.

If you time it right, Kunitz might peak around mid-to-late January, when teams are going to start getting looking around for veterans to add for playoff runs

 

[td_ice]

Exactly. Ride it out, increase his value, and then when he starts to slump start calling about a trade trumpeting our "youth" movement.

If you time it right, Kunitz might peak around mid-to-late January, when teams are going to start getting looking around for veterans to add for playoff runs

Agreed.


Heck, it (top line) might not even last past one game or two, but to preemptively pull it NOW, of all times, seems unnecessary. If he looks like dog crap tonight, get him out of there next game.

 

[IcedCapp]

Funny that they'd do that with Sullivan after no doing it with Johnston, no? It seems like the implication was that they never intended to keep Johnston beyond this season...

Honestly, I think it's close to that. He wasn't their first choice, so they gave him two years and Tochett and it was basically a "this either works way better than we expect, or we didn't really lose much (money wise) for s stopgap."

The only issue with Sullivan is, again, you're taking someone who doesn't have a resume that commands respect and throwing him into a situation that seems to need it. But the reality of the situation is, there's no realistic, better alternative right now (in the "commands respect" regard)

 

[radapex]

Is it any less of an ideal situation than when we had a great bottom 6 and defense and no offense? Again, there's little Sullivan or Johnston can do besides lobbying the GM to make a move (which is no guarantee that it can be made or will be made), but you have to work with what you have, not with what you'd like to have. And that's the litmus test of a good coach.

We have different holes now, but no team is going to have a perfect roster in this day and age. Sullivan's first job should be to find a way to maximize the offense with what we have. If that means working on the transition or trying a new breakout or d-pairs, good. If that means giving Sid and Geno and Kessel more leeway, that works too. But this is not a team that was built to be playing 2-1 or 1-0 games like we've been playing, and Johnston just couldn't seem to find a way to make this roster work in the confines of his system.

My point being that it's easier to work around a few smaller holes than one giant crater of one. The defense, right now, is a giant crater of a hole.

 

[IcedCapp]

Rossi going on leafs lunch in a few minutes to discuss pens. Cant wait to hear his BS


http://www2.tsn.ca/toronto/listen/

My smoke break weirdly occurred at 12:30. Oh well.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Agreed.


Heck, it (top line) might not even last past one game or two, but to preemptively pull it NOW, of all times, seems unnecessary. If he looks like dog crap tonight, get him out of there next game.

Right. And this even has some plausible deniability with the coaching change too, if they're shopping him. The Pens can claim (and rightly) they're just trying to get a look at their roster with the new HC.

I really do think that both Scuderi and Kunitz will have some value down the stretch. Whether or not we can utilize that with their NTCs is a different question.

 

[IcedCapp]

as far as Kunitz goes, based on the organization's structure Friday morning, there is no interest in moving him. Maybe he won't be a 1st line player, but moving him is not on the radar, simply because they lack LWs.

Now, if they start playing different people at LW, like Bennett and Sprong?

Then you can start speculating. I know JR is open to it, as he's tried multiple times in the past, but right now, they have no one to fill the LW roles.

 

[td_ice]

Thanks for all the info IC.

Good stuff.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Honestly, I think it's close to that. He wasn't their first choice, so they gave him two years and Tochett and it was basically a "this either works way better than we expect, or we didn't really lose much (money wise) for s stopgap."

The only issue with Sullivan is, again, you're taking someone who doesn't have a resume that commands respect and throwing him into a situation that seems to need it. But the reality of the situation is, there's no realistic, better alternative right now (in the "commands respect" regard)

That's my largest concern as well.

 

[gdsmack267]

Rossis interview was a 15 minute bash fest and kept giggling as they said "great analysis rob"

 

[MrBurghundy]

as far as Kunitz goes, based on the organization's structure Friday morning, there is no interest in moving him. Maybe he won't be a 1st line player, but moving him is not on the radar, simply because they lack LWs.

Now, if they start playing different people at LW, like Bennett and Sprong?

Then you can start speculating. I know JR is open to it, as he's tried multiple times in the past, but right now, they have no one to fill the LW roles.

At least I can understand their thinking on that front. All I can hope for is they decide to move Bennett, Sprong, or Hornqvist to LW. Maybe Sullivan has that same idea once he sees the team in action.

Honestly though, just thinking long term here, one of those 3 have to move to LW eventually if they all want to be on this team moving forward. Kessel isn't switching, and those 3 all need to be in the top-6 somehow. I'd prefer it be Sprong considering his shot first mentality. Plus he'll have less retraining to have to go through compared to the other guys who have only ever played one side their whole lives.

 

[IcedCapp]

At least I can understand their thinking on that front. All I can hope for is they decide to move Bennett, Sprong, or Hornqvist to LW. Maybe Sullivan has that same idea once he sees the team in action.

Honestly though, just thinking long term here, one of those 3 have to move to LW eventually if they all want to be on this team moving forward. Kessel isn't switching, and those 3 all need to be in the top-6 somehow. I'd prefer it be Sprong considering his shot first mentality. Plus he'll have less retraining to have to go through compared to the other guys who have only ever played one side their whole lives.

I agree with Sprong and the reasoning for Sprong, and the team may have even been thinking that, as well, but there was not enough play time for Sprong to get comfortable with regular NHL play, let alone off-side NHL play.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I agree with Sprong and the reasoning for Sprong, and the team may have even been thinking that, as well, but there was not enough play time for Sprong to get comfortable with regular NHL play, let alone off-side NHL play.

Yeah, now isn't really the best time I agree. Long term I think that's going to have to be his position though. At least Bennett has played there some this season, and I didn't think he looked that bad all things considered.

I'd probably play

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Bennett - Malkin - Kessel

Nothing really set in stone obviously though.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah, now isn't really the best time I agree. Long term I think that's going to have to be his position though. At least Bennett has played there some this season, and I didn't think he looked that bad all things considered.

I'd probably play

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Bennett - Malkin - Kessel

Nothing really set in stone obviously though.

Ah, you said something I was going to add. I'm in the minority (with you, i guess), but Bennett, to me, has always been at his best on Malkin's left.

I don't know if I'd do it now, because Bennett is literally the only person on the roster who Crosby seems to have any sort of chemistry with, at the moment, but down the road, it's definitely something I'd want to get back to trying.

 

[AR5]

jealous of what exactly lmao

bitter much? jesus

Can't wait for the game tonight! Woot!

 

[AR5]

Like I said I didn't know he had some sort of insider info therefore there was nothing to be jealous of. And I am far from being jealous of that anyway.

OK. Just catching up with this thread. Disregard my last post. I took this Bandwagoner fellow to be someone who actually FOLLOWED these boards enough to know who IC was, and was trying to piss him off. Seems like he just came late to the party or something.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Get out of here Bandwagoner. IC knows stuff. You don't. You are projecting your lack of knowledge onto other people.

Between reading IC's posts and yours, I take IC's 10 times out of 10. If you annoy him enough to get him to leave again, I will be seriously pissed off!

what in the **** is this

edit - okay you have redeemed yourself somewhat

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

The only reason for keeping Sprong up at this point is if the new coaching staff sees real potential for him playing with Malkin or Crosby in the top 6 this season. If not, he should (and I mean probably will) get sent down. I am sure JR probably has this opinion too but he called for him to get playing time because having him not play at all is a lose-lose for everyone.

I just feel bad for him because he could be enjoying a great progressive year in the Q right now. Lots of great players have gone that route (Kucherov, Drouin, Duclair).