Mike Commodore goes off on Babcock (Mod warning in OP)

[yubbers]

If that Marner story is true, seriously, **** Babcock.

If this is the **** he's been pulling, it's no wonder our players weren't taking discounts to play here.

and here it comes....hahahaha. I knew it! The ole Dubas signing garbage deals is Babcocks fault.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

and here it comes....hahahaha. I knew it! The ole Dubas signing garbage deals is Babcocks fault.

Not what I said, by the way. Both people can be at fault.

 

[666]

Pat Quinn had seasons of 103 , 100, 100, points. This was before they added the OTL points. It was also not a watered-down league like it is today.

Actually the OTL came in during the Quinn era and all of those seasons had OTL's but there were some seasons long ago where we did better.
Toronto Maple Leafs Franchise History | Hockey-Reference.com

The point is, even at 105 points he under performed.

 

[yubbers]

Not what I said, by the way. Both people can be at fault.

That's fair

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

It validates opinions. Still doesn't explain why it all worked out until last season.

Lots of coaches, especially ones labelled as "old school" are known to come with a shelf life. This isn't the first time a once successful coach has worn out his welcome.

That's not to say anything about Babcock in particular. On the one hand, I wasn't a big fan of some of the tactics he used or his penchant to inconsistently hold people accountable, but on the other hand it's hard to say that he didn't do some good while he was here and perhaps he was the coach the Leafs needed at the time.

Just because Commodore and Fraser acted immaturely and unprofessionally - and IMO they did - it doesn't mean what they said wasn't true. I just wish some of this would have come out beforehand....all of these so called insiders working for TSN/SN etc and this kind of stuff always comes out after the fact. If that's the case, we are just as much insiders as they are lol

 

[zeke]

A comparison of Babcock's 1st year (30th) to 2nd year (15th):

Games played in brackets.

Kadri (76) -----------------------> Matthews (82)
JVR (40) / Lupul (46) ---------> Marner (77)
Komarov (67)/ Hyman (16) ---> Komarov (82)

Bozak (57) /Nylander (22) -----> Kadri (82)
Parenteau (77) ------------------> Nylander (81)
Grabner (80) --------------------> JVR (82)

Holland (65)/ Arcobello (20) ---> Bozak (78)
Winnik (56) / Laich (20) -------> Hyman (82)
Matthias (51)/ Greening (30) --> Brown (82)

Froese (56) / Spaling (35) ------> Smith (36) / Boyle (21) / Gauthier (21)
Boyes (60) / Clune (19) ---------> Martin (82)
Michalek (13) / Smith (16) /
Leivo (12) / Sosh (11) / Kappy (9)
Brown (7) / Goat (7) /
Lindberg (6) / Leipsic (6) -------> Sosh (56) / Leivo (13) / Michalek (5) / Kappy (8) / Holland (8) / etc.


Rielly (82) ------------------------> Rielly (76)
Gardiner (79) --------------------> Gardiner (82)

Phaneuf (51) / Corrado (39) -----> Zaitsev (82)
Hunwick (60) / Carrick (16) -----> Hunwick (72)

Polak (55) / Harrington (15) --- > Polak (75)
Marincin (65) / Valiev (10) /
Loov (4) / Brennan (7) /
Campbell (6) / Percy (3) --------> Carrick (67) / Marincin (25) / Marchenko (11)


Bernier (36) / Reimer (29) ------> Andersen (66)
Sparks (17) -----------------------> McElhinney (10) / Enroth (4) / Bibeau (2)



what a miracle worker!

 

[Nithoniniel]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Please don't tell me you're being serious.

Oh he's serious. I was considering whether to break it to him that Dubas probably learned that from Lou, who considered it basic professionalism.

 

[666]

Ok. But going into year one with Dubas and now Johnny T we were looking good. Nobody was concerned at all. Agreed?

Some of us were always concerned. I believe that I posted that we would never win the cup with Babcock from day one.

 

[yubbers]

Lots of coaches, especially ones labelled as "old school" are known to come with a shelf life. This isn't the first time a once successful coach has worn out his welcome.

That's not to say anything about Babcock in particular. On the one hand, I wasn't a big fan of some of the tactics he used or his penchant to inconsistently hold people accountable, but on the other hand it's hard to say that he didn't do some good while he was here and perhaps he was the coach the Leafs needed at the time.

Just because Commodore and Fraser acted immaturely and unprofessionally - and IMO they did - it doesn't mean what they said wasn't true. I just wish some of this would have come out beforehand....all of these so called insiders working for TSN/SN etc and this kind of stuff always comes out after the fact. If that's the case, we are just as much insiders as they are lol

Agreed. It's just people are acting like he suddenly morphed into this guy. We all knew what Babcock was. Nobody was complaining until last year is all I'm saying. Or at least to this extent.

 

[yubbers]

Some of us were always concerned. I believe that I posted that we would never win the cup with Babcock from day one.

That's fine. Odds wise a very smart bet :p

But all was well for the most part. Things were rolling forward. With JT we'd be unstoppable! And we were for like 24 games. Then it switched.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Didn't realize you weren't aware of the plan for that season. Hope Santa brings you something nice this year.

So again, we're back to Babcock losing games on purpose because of "the plan".

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Oh he's serious. I was considering whether to break it to him that Dubas probably learned that from Lou, who considered it basic professionalism.

I'm more amazed that he thinks there's some sort of "left-wing media" in hockey and that their top priority is being called by name.

 

[666]

That's fine. Odds wise a very smart bet :p

But all was well for the most part. Things were rolling forward. With JT we'd be unstoppable! And we were for like 24 games. Then it switched.

Early last season things were good but many people around here were always concerned about the playoffs.

 

[yubbers]

Early last season things were good but many people around here were always concerned about the playoffs.

i was one of them. Thought we really needed to insulate Kadri as the 'tough guy'

 

[Myopic]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Please don't tell me you're being serious.

settle down sport. It certainly was not my intention to hurt your feelings. You'll be ok.

 

[ACC1224]

Some of us were always concerned. I believe that I posted that we would never win the cup with Babcock from day one.

Really went out on a limb there!

 

[egd27]

So again, we're back to Babcock losing games on purpose because of "the plan".

Brad Boyes
Tyler Bozak
Frank Corrado
Byron Froese
Jake Gardiner
Michael Grabner
Peter Holland
Matt Hunwick
Nazem Kadri
Leo Komarov
Joffrey Lupul
Shawn Matthias
P.A. Parenteau
Dion Phaneuf
Roman Polak
Morgan Rielly
James van Riemsdyk
Daniel Winnik
Garrett Sparks

Well now that I look at the roster, I see your point. Good thing he's gone if he couldn't win with that line up.

 

[666]

i was one of them. Thought we really needed to insulate Kadri as the 'tough guy'

And while we're at it, when Kadri was losing his mind last playoffs, I turned to my spouse and said, "If Babcock puts him back on he's going to get suspended and it will be on Babcock not Kadri". A couple of minutes later Kadri was gone and I still blame Babcock because it was obvious that Kadri had lost his cool.

 

[18leafsfan18]

so on the flip side you're saying a player will ask for less if he likes the coach ?

and the teams performance dictates whether a coach/GM whoever else involved deserves credit/blame

Dubas took over a 105 pt team , the team has performed worse since he took over , he now has his coach and he needs to get better results to get credit for doing a good job .

if you want to hand out gold stars before the team outperforms what it previously accomplished that's your prerogative but don't expect everyone else to also share your view

Why would a player ask for less money. You make no sense whatsoever.

In a negotiation, you explain your side of the argument, then the opposing side explains their side. Very very basic stuff.

If the coach was someone all the players loved, would management use that as an advantage to signing in Toronto ? Absolutely they would.

So when the team was playing well it was because of Babcock, but when they lose or have a bad season it's because of Dubas ? And you say I'm 1 sided ?

The team wins or loses as a team, that's how team sports work. Does Dubas deserve some blame, yes (and he admits it), does Babcock deserve some blame , yes (But he doesn't admit it), do the players deserve some blame, yes (for the most part they admit it).

They had a 100 point season and you make it sound like they missed the play offs. Talk about grasping at straws .

The team doesn't have to win a Stanley cup to be able to say the GM made some good moves, in the same way you talk about Babcock like he is god's gift to hockey even though he has won nothing in the NHL in 10 years.

 

[666]

Really went out on a limb there!

Fair enough, but there sure were a lot of people around here who felt we had a really good chance with him especially last season.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I don't know why were talking about the tank season, I certainly don't hold that against Babcock nor do I take the "he took a last place team to the playoffs" posts seriously, it just shouldn't count, it had absolutely nothing to do with the real team which began the following season, period.

 

[Kazparov]

Wow I just heard that Marner story. That's next level mind games.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Not what I said, by the way. Both people can be at fault.

Many posters here don't get this exact point.

Have to be on 1 side or the other in almost any subject.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Brad Boyes
Tyler Bozak
Frank Corrado
Byron Froese
Jake Gardiner
Michael Grabner
Peter Holland
Matt Hunwick
Nazem Kadri
Leo Komarov
Joffrey Lupul
Shawn Matthias
P.A. Parenteau
Dion Phaneuf
Roman Polak
Morgan Rielly
James van Riemsdyk
Daniel Winnik
Garrett Sparks

Well now that I look at the roster, I see your point. Good thing he's gone if he couldn't win with that line up.

That roster is a Phil Kessel short of taking Boston to game 7.

But again, if we're playing the roster game then why does Babcock get the credit for making the playoffs when half of that team got massively improved?

 

[Clark4Ever]

So we got 104 points was it? with the mean coach. And they just started to hate him half way through last season? I'm again not trying to defend Babs here. It just seems there's another variable.

It's obvious Dubes and Babcock were never gonna get along. My biggest issue with the hire among others. Did this begin the pissing match which made Babs a little more spiteful? Feels like it to me. But these rumours go back before that.

My comment had nothing to do with his strategic approach as a coach or how many points we had under his tutelage. That has been discussed ad nauseum on here.

This is about how Babcock related to the players during his tenure, how he communicated with them, and how he tried to motivate them.

Among other things, the story that came out about Marner in particular is a serious indictment of Babcock's character in my opinion.

 

[Stigma]

Tune into Leafslunch......Marner going to validate the story in a few minutes.