Confirmed with Link: Mike Babcock resigns as head coach

[Viqsi]

If it comes out tomorrow that Jarmo is a werewolf and has been killing people in his neighborhood every full moon, I’ll post that Jarmo should step down from his position to deal with his lycanthropy. Feel free to post “koteka, you idiot, you just want Jarmo gone and you are using this false moral outrage of him being a werewolf as your latest excuse.” I’ll expect it. But know that I don’t think a GM should be a werewolf, and I’d feel the same way about Stevie Y if he turns out to be a werewolf.

I dunno, I actually think werewolves are pretty neat.

 

[koteka]

I dunno, I actually think werewolves are pretty neat.

You are entitled to your opinion. I wouldn’t come on here and say I think you actually hate werewolves but since you are 100% on Team Jarmo you are now on Team Werewolf too.

PS: Lycanthropy is a disease. I’d feel bad for Jarmo in that scenario, but I wouldn’t want him staying in the same hotel as Adam Fantilli on the road during a full moon.

 

[Viqsi]

You are entitled to your opinion. I wouldn’t come on here and say I think you actually hate werewolves but since you are 100% on Team Jarmo you are now on Team Werewolf too.

team jacob all the way yo

 

[CBJWerenski8]

team jacob all the way yo

PTSD of high school now, thanks

 

[LJ7]

Wish we could actually know the FULL story of what all actually occurred. I still haven’t actually heard anything THAT bad, even going into Babcock’s past, without all these stories also lacking essentially ALL CONTEXT, and nothing actually that bad, that only pampered and entitled people would have an issue with. IMO

My goodness dude, read between the lines. Every single implication that has come from this indicates that Babcock saw some private and sensitive stuff (stuff he should NEVER have seen) on some of our players phones while digging through them. The fewer people that know the details of what he found, the better. For the player(s) sake I hope Jarmo and JD don't know the details, and if the player(s) never want to publicly share what went down then I hope it never gets out.

There is no context for a reason. The full story isn't out for a reason. If we just publicly humiliated the players involved instead of privately humiliated them at Babcock's house would you be happy then? Can these guys have no privacy?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

team jacob all the way yo

I had to look this up and now I've just doubled the amount of mental attention I've given to that in my life.

 

[Viqsi]

I had to look this up and now I've just doubled the amount of mental attention I've given to that in my life.

Admittedly I only paid the briefest amount of attention and that was mostly to needle my sister-in-law.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I’ve had to do safe sport training for a different activity. IMO they have good intentions but it’s just like all kinds of required corporate training organizations make you take as an attempt to say we told you not to do this and help absolve their liabilities.

It doesn’t get people to act differently. It’s common sense information people should just naturally know. Don’t bully people. Don’t F the kids. Don’t be an a**hole. I don’t think anyone has ever gone through this training that changes who they are as a person. The organization doesn’t have any official oversight. It’s just guidance for individuals and organizations to follow but it doesn’t make individuals and organizations better people for it.

I think this type of training can help new "managers" that are trying to learn how to do it. The long time people in power won't change. As you point out, it does give their supervisors some plausible deniabilty when they predictably misbehave and makes it easier to dump them for cause.

 

[NotWendell]

“Who hasn’t quite cracked the NHL yet”

So are we blaming Babcock for holding this guy’s career back??

Or just vilifying him for being a big meany to a grown man getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a kids game?? Or was he literally just being OVERLY “blunt” and honest with a guy who couldn’t and still can’t handle reality??

Maybe we should focus on his ACTUAL EVALUATION of the player that Babcock was actually correct about.


Boo hoo

It was accurate, no??

Every employee, every PERSON, deserves to be treated with dignity and respect (just like Babcock was in the presser)

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think this type of training can help new "managers" that are trying to learn how to do it. The long time people in power won't change. As you point out, it does give their supervisors some plausible deniabilty when they predictably misbehave and makes it easier to dump them for cause.

This is true. Implementing it is reactionary by companies and organizations that implement it as a CYA method but it’s really just a bunch of slides and videos to watch and very easy to just go through the motions. If an organization is serious about changing the culture it needs to be much more proactive and hands on.

Just like a drug addict going to rehab, it only works if the person wants to change. People who are serious about their growth and learning by default are probably the most likely to know the difference between right and wrong to begin with.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If an organization is serious about changing the culture it needs to be much more proactive and hands on.

Metaphorically speaking.

 

[DEF]

His hair was perfect.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

His hair was perfect.

 

[Nanabijou]

I want to thank Paul Bissonnette. He brought the whole situation to light. I want to thank the NHLPA. They came to Columbus and uncovered information that the team was either unwilling or unable to discover.

The internal processes the Jackets put in place to deal with problems either weren’t trusted or they failed.

The Jackets did not thoroughly investigate the situation once it came to light.

The Jackets held a press conference when they did not have complete information or were ignoring the information.

This was a complete failure by the CBJ. Thank you Biz and NHLPA for getting a toxic person out of Columbus.

With respect to the fact that the Jackets didn't thoroughly investigate at first...

Bissonnette specifically called out Jenner as being the one affected. My guess of what happened: Jarmo has said he has shared pics with Babcock himself, didn't find it that unusual of a technique to get to know each other. He reaches out to Jenner who relays a similar experience. Other leaders like Johnny and Z say something similar. Jarmo and the CBJ brass are now convinced that the story has been blown out of proportion and issue statements.

I don't know when Biz got the details about it Babcock actually taking a phone from a rookie or whatever, which was different than the vets' interactions. Biz is getting credit, but his initial report focussed on Jenner (which he admits he was wrong in doing), plus he was laughing about it in more of a 'this is weird he'd put the captain through this' kind of way, rather than an 'abuse of power over a rookie' kind of way.

But at some point, the details of the rookie stuff got to NHLPA. Jarmo/JD help facilitate that investigation and once they get those details, Babcock is gone.

My take is that I don't fault Jarmo and JD for the initial statement or for that initial investigation. Biz specifically mentioned Boone, and they verified that Boone's experience was the same as their own in picture sharing with Babcock. Once they got more info, they took action quickly. They've tried to make clear that they were wrong to hire Babs, while probably also not going into specifics to protect player privacy and adhere to whatever the severance was with Babcock.

I think it's fair game to question Jarmo and JD on why Babs was hired in the first place - did they talk to previous rookies he coached, or kids at U Sask? Or did they just talk to guys like Hitch and Dave King who he obviously is friends with and has his respect? I also think it's fair whether there were enough safeguards put in place after the hire - rules like Babcock should interact with players individually only with another coach present, etc. But, I think they did the best they could once the allegations came to light and don't fault them for that part of the debacle.

 

[Forepar]

With respect to the fact that the Jackets didn't thoroughly investigate at first...

Bissonnette specifically called out Jenner as being the one affected. My guess of what happened: Jarmo has said he has shared pics with Babcock himself, didn't find it that unusual of a technique to get to know each other. He reaches out to Jenner who relays a similar experience. Other leaders like Johnny and Z say something similar. Jarmo and the CBJ brass are now convinced that the story has been blown out of proportion and issue statements.

I don't know when Biz got the details about it Babcock actually taking a phone from a rookie or whatever, which was different than the vets' interactions. Biz is getting credit, but his initial report focussed on Jenner (which he admits he was wrong in doing), plus he was laughing about it in more of a 'this is weird he'd put the captain through this' kind of way, rather than an 'abuse of power over a rookie' kind of way.

But at some point, the details of the rookie stuff got to NHLPA. Jarmo/JD help facilitate that investigation and once they get those details, Babcock is gone.

My take is that I don't fault Jarmo and JD for the initial statement or for that initial investigation. Biz specifically mentioned Boone, and they verified that Boone's experience was the same as their own in picture sharing with Babcock. Once they got more info, they took action quickly. They've tried to make clear that they were wrong to hire Babs, while probably also not going into specifics to protect player privacy and adhere to whatever the severance was with Babcock.

I think it's fair game to question Jarmo and JD on why Babs was hired in the first place - did they talk to previous rookies he coached, or kids at U Sask? Or did they just talk to guys like Hitch and Dave King who he obviously is friends with and has his respect? I also think it's fair whether there were enough safeguards put in place after the hire - rules like Babcock should interact with players individually only with another coach present, etc. But, I think they did the best they could once the allegations came to light and don't fault them for that part of the debacle.

^^^
IMO, the perfect Reader’s Digest version summing up this CBJ chapter. Great post, I’d give you a cookie but that is Viqsi’s domain anyway. Hopefully on to the season…
I’m just tired, sad and somewhat done with FO and coaching beyond Xs and Os.
And yet still excited for the season to start watching the blend of top young talent with a few talented veterans.

Amidst all of the last week,
—- the W/L record for the season is STILL more in the hands of MerzTar, not any other player or coach.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

While I would like the management team to go, unless this issue with the phone had come up before, I am not sure how due diligence gets you there during the hiring process. Clearly Babcock has a past failure of that manager sensitivity that is now part of the workplace expectations. Some people say and do what they want without ever first asking themselves, "can I do that?" or "can I say that?" What the past anecdotal evidence did show was that Babcock lacked any awareness of how his conduct is perceived by others. People that behave like that are unlikely to change.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Quoted for truth. You get a cookie.

Feels like every dipshit with an impressions count to justify to advertisers is trying to add "I got Jarmo Kekalainen fired" to their resume right now and I'm just done with it.

Then you owe Jake Voracek a cookie as well.

 

[Viqsi]

Then you owe Jake Voracek a cookie as well.

More than I can ever possibly offer.

Speaking of which...

* * *​

With respect to the fact that the Jackets didn't thoroughly investigate at first...

Bissonnette specifically called out Jenner as being the one affected. My guess of what happened: Jarmo has said he has shared pics with Babcock himself, didn't find it that unusual of a technique to get to know each other. He reaches out to Jenner who relays a similar experience. Other leaders like Johnny and Z say something similar. Jarmo and the CBJ brass are now convinced that the story has been blown out of proportion and issue statements.

I don't know when Biz got the details about it Babcock actually taking a phone from a rookie or whatever, which was different than the vets' interactions. Biz is getting credit, but his initial report focussed on Jenner (which he admits he was wrong in doing), plus he was laughing about it in more of a 'this is weird he'd put the captain through this' kind of way, rather than an 'abuse of power over a rookie' kind of way.

But at some point, the details of the rookie stuff got to NHLPA. Jarmo/JD help facilitate that investigation and once they get those details, Babcock is gone.

My take is that I don't fault Jarmo and JD for the initial statement or for that initial investigation. Biz specifically mentioned Boone, and they verified that Boone's experience was the same as their own in picture sharing with Babcock. Once they got more info, they took action quickly. They've tried to make clear that they were wrong to hire Babs, while probably also not going into specifics to protect player privacy and adhere to whatever the severance was with Babcock.

I think it's fair game to question Jarmo and JD on why Babs was hired in the first place - did they talk to previous rookies he coached, or kids at U Sask? Or did they just talk to guys like Hitch and Dave King who he obviously is friends with and has his respect? I also think it's fair whether there were enough safeguards put in place after the hire - rules like Babcock should interact with players individually only with another coach present, etc. But, I think they did the best they could once the allegations came to light and don't fault them for that part of the debacle.

Nominated before I was even here but yep, this gets a cookie too.

 

[MissADD]

Good quote from St Louis

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

My goodness dude, read between the lines. Every single implication that has come from this indicates that Babcock saw some private and sensitive stuff (stuff he should NEVER have seen) on some of our players phones while digging through them. The fewer people that know the details of what he found, the better. For the player(s) sake I hope Jarmo and JD don't know the details, and if the player(s) never want to publicly share what went down then I hope it never gets out.

There is no context for a reason. The full story isn't out for a reason. If we just publicly humiliated the players involved instead of privately humiliated them at Babcock's house would you be happy then? Can these guys have no privacy?

Question to you all: Is this a common perception? It's not at all what I have been thinking (i.e. that the issue had much if anything to do with what was actually on the players' phones). I've been under the assumption the main problem was whatever Babcock did with the phones, not the content of the phones.

Also, re: the vetting process - there seems to be a lot of managers or directors here, and while it's easy to believe the CBJ front office messed up the hiring and vetting process originally, I don't know if it's quite as simple as it seems with hindsight. I assume a lot of you have had to deal with disgruntled ex-employees at some point, and they are not exactly a reliable source when speaking about the employer. If there's bad blood, there's usually two sides of the story and then the truth somewhere in there, hidden deep. It takes quite a bit of detective work to figure out what really happened, especially if more impartial parties are not involved or willing to talk, and if some time has passed, it becomes even more difficult...

I'm also curious how much discussion a GM of a team (or other person) can have with an active player playing for another team. I imagine there's some complicating factors involved. Less so with retired players though, but I guess that's where the "maybe he's changed" part came in.

 

[NotCommitted]

I hate witch hunts and honestly after the initial reports this looked like one, but with the vague information we've got since, it's looking pretty clear it was not that innocent and it's all vague because of respect of privacy for the involved parties and that Babs is still the same Babs pulling the same shit he's always done.

Even throwing ethics and simple human compassion and whatever out the window and looking at it purely from a cold perspective where winning is everything - assuming Babs means winning (but when's the last time he even won anything?), I don't think winning a few more games 23-24 & 24-25 is worth the risk of ruining some of the prospects in the org and probably winning less in the future as the result.

 

[Byrral]

Boomer is a cannon and Mike Babcock is a good hockey coach.

They were both removed for similar reasons, faulty and bogus perception. Imagination and societal/fan pressure pushed by outside influences.

I thought we finally were worried about winning hockey games. I guess not.

Wish we could actually know the FULL story of what all actually occurred. I still haven’t actually heard anything THAT bad, even going into Babcock’s past, without all these stories also lacking essentially ALL CONTEXT, and nothing actually that bad, that only pampered and entitled people would have an issue with. IMO

I wonder how many of the people who have had bad experiences with Babcock are good people themselves….

I personally would not have picked this hill to die on. Babcock is who he is and that is not a good person. This isn't because I know him personally but it is because many that do know him think he's a POS. This latest crap he pulled finalized it for me. I don't care if he is a good coach or not, he is obviously toxic. This latest embarrasement was in violation of players individual personal privacy and it disqualifies him from coaching this team. He was given a second chance by the CBJ, he knew the boundaries would be very tight and yet he chose this path anyway. In my 45 years of meeting people in my work environment with different backgrounds, upbringing and cultures, not once did I feel the need to ask anyone for their phones, purses, wallets, personal belongings, etc. to get to know them better. You earn that privilege by gaining their trust not by stabbing them in the back.

This Babcock thing is over for me. I'm glad he's gone. If it had to happen this was a good time for it to happen. Good luck Babs in your life away from hockey because you probably coached your last game in the NHL.

Tomorrow the CBJ hit the ice and I'm not going to be thinking about this anymore.

 

[koteka]

Also, re: the vetting process - there seems to be a lot of managers or directors here, and while it's easy to believe the CBJ front office messed up the hiring and vetting process originally, I don't know if it's quite as simple as it seems with hindsight. I assume a lot of you have had to deal with disgruntled ex-employees at some point, and they are not exactly a reliable source when speaking about the employer. If there's bad blood, there's usually two sides of the story and then the truth somewhere in there, hidden deep. It takes quite a bit of detective work to figure out what really happened, especially if more impartial parties are not involved or willing to talk, and if some time has passed, it becomes even more difficult...

I think the issue here is the idea that he had changed. The narrative was “Babcock was a good coach who could be a jerk, but he has had 4 years and he has changed” so they should really have investigated whether he has changed. Have you ever been around an addict? They are the best liars in the world and they are masters of saying they have changed. I have been around a few, so I am naturally skeptical when someone claims to have undergone a significant change.

How do you investigate whether someone has changed?

Do you call the old boys club and ask “Do you think Babcock has changed?” Is that a reasonable approach, or is that an easy but ineffective approach?

Do you have a long sit down with Babcock and straight up ask him?

I think my approach would be

1) Try to find the real story about past transgressions.

2) Bring in a couple of Psychology PhDs that are established experts on when and how people can make significant changes in their life.

3) Call people who have spent a lot of time with Babcock over the last 4 years and ask them about him

4) Sit down with Babcock and ask him about past mistakes and how he has grown

5) Sit down with critics like Mike Commodore and have a serious discussion about Babcock.

That may seem like time consuming work, but remember the Jackets took their time with this hire.

It seems like the team took the simpler “call some guys you know” approach rather than taking a deeper dive into Mike Babcock‘s capacity to change.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Good quote from St Louis

Kind of an odd analogy. My family went to the same dentist for almost 50 years until he retired in his 80's. (You would have never guessed he was that old honestly)

The first time I went to a new dentist was my first experience where the hygienist does all the work and then the dentist walks in, only inspects the cleaning and then sends you a bill. I was blown away this is how dentistry functioned and I was over 40.

 

[traffic cone]

Kind of an odd analogy. My family went to the same dentist for almost 50 years until he retired in his 80's. (You would have never guessed he was that old honestly)

The first time I went to a new dentist was my first experience where the hygienist does all the work and then the dentist walks in, only inspects the cleaning and then sends you a bill. I was blown away this is how dentistry functioned and I was over 40.

Maybe your family dentist upgraded his equipment during those years.